If he is having an affair and is living with the OW, he is committing the worst form of abuse.

My H nearly choked on his cake.

Me delivering a karate chop to his throat while his mouth was full probably didn't help much.

AMEN!!!!


BR, you crack me up!

[quote=Tabby1
ISo is your WS's affair over? If so, you aren't in Plan A anymore, you are in recovery. If not, you are not in recovery. You can Plan A until the cows come home but there is no recovery as long as the affair is still active. [/quote]

What if you think the affair is over but it is too soon to tell for sure? What if you are still discovering details about your WS that occured prior to Dday? This is the hardest part for me. My husband seems to be heading toward recovery BUT is not completely honest yet. I have doubts. I am still watching him like a hawk and will for a long time. I want to think that I am in recovery but am afraid to believe that I am not in a false recovery because the last year has been so full of lies. I have been in shock and doing my best to not blast my F?WS with my lovebusting tendencies. I have been working on building his lovebank while he gets his head out of the fog. Is that plan A or recovery? How are they different in the beginning stages when the WS is still foggy and can't meet the BS emotional needs but NC has been promised and seems to be in place?

Hi PM, good thread. I reflect the same thoughts.

I was originally posting on a kinder marriage site where you were supposed to be in a Plan A type for an undetermined amount of time. As time progressed I saw many posters begin to hate their WS. Hard call.

In my case I regret that I did a dismal Plan A, hard to keep control of my emotions so I went into Plan B quick. (Also WH is back to drinking).

But it has been very difficult to do an effective Plan B, because I see my H at least 3x a week at work and we work on the same projects and events. People have said don't look at him at meetings, turn my head, ignore him. These are all things I do but lets face it -- it is not the same as going "completely dark". I really knew the difference about being completed dark when I was away last week. Not worrying about seeing H's car, seeing H at meetings, running into him around town -- it was easy sticking to the "Plan B" -- out of sight out of mind

Many interesting thoughts and responses. my 0.02

Thank GOD they took those 2x4s away. LOL

I get it.

I did suggest that she get SAA but I don't know if she did.

P,

Okay then, be a peach of a friend and go buy a copy for her. Of course, you can't MAKE her read it, but at least when you refer to the principles you have a tangable reference to point to......

You are a good friend to help her through this.....

not2fun

No 2x4 smiley is just wwrrroooooooooonggg!

can now stand for The Hulk!

I know will sound radical and all but, I am one who believes that Plan A and B are totally backwards.

I believe Plan B should be the very first thing a BS should initiate. After a certain period of time and a softness of feelings, then would be the apropriate time to Plan A.

The WS should immediately have the hammer over their head and a complete darkness initiated by the BS upon initial discovery. The carrot of Plan A should not be offered unless and until, no contact is established, and Godly sorrow for the A is offered to the BS. Anything short of that is pure mental abuse of the BS, and no one should have to endure that to save their M.

If we revverse Plan A and B, it would give the BS some dignity and self respect, and avoid stays in a mental institution. It would put the entire onus of saving one's M on the offending S and provide the BS a rock of sanity to stand on.

Just my thoughts.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Why be a doormat forever?

Ignoring that the OP is banging your WS is not going to win your WS back let alone get you their respect.

Plan B is effective for after you have shown through a plan A that you have become a better person and spouse. Now they have seen the new and improved you plan B is can motivate the WS off the fence because they have to go through withdrawal for you.

Can a WS not give 2 cents about you going dark on her?

Yes.

This is why plans A, B are not effective 100%. Though there is no other plans that will work better for you.

I like it I like it! Very good, never thought of the low burning flame thing for BS. That actually makes perfect sense and I personally have 2 friends who remarried each other.


Thanks PM for starting this thread, ok I'm gonna read some more.

Now this is a good point. I have been told my mutual friends that they knew a couple that went thru adultery. They said that the H said it gets too hard at some point to lead a double life. Now I agree with PM that each individual would know at some point when enough is enough. Everyone gets to that point.

I think whether Plan A or Plan B you can still end up hating your spouse. I mean lets say you go into a stellar Plan B with no changes and the WS still NC your still gonna end up hating the WS, so I can't see that even a Plan B would protect your LB at that point. Your going to end up hating them for being in Plan B for extended periods too.

That's interesting. Gonna think on that.

This could apply when the BS doesn't have many issues to fix. We all know it's common for the WS to exaggereate a BS's flaws to justify their behavior so doing plan A may not help in some cases. I'm not a believer in being 50 percent responsible for the pre-A M even though I'm half the couple. I know I wasn't the perfect wife but I was a good wife and FWH still cheated.

I don't know about a real Plan B to begin, but I think a short period away from the WS to regroup, get emotions under control and formulate a plan as to how to proceed may be an excellent idea.

The problem is how to go about that vacation to ramp up for the fight ahead. If the BS storms out it might be very hard to get back into the house, especially for a husband who might find himself in jail simply because a neighbor has decided that he was at fault and thinks he is being abusive just by coming home.

And if you throw the WS out it might be hard to get him/her back into the house later to do much of a Plan A. If recently divorced friends are nearby a WS might easily move in with someone that already has no sympathy (or empathy) for BS and the emotional stuff could feed each others problems.

Or if a WW is having an affair with a single/divorced/already separated guy she might simply move in with him. While this might actually hasten the end of the affair by throwing the love birds together to fend for themselves against the merciless world that is becoming ever more hostile as exposure begins, it also allows for a fantasy life wherein the two get to begin setting up house together and dreaming about life together in the future. Since much of the problem in getting the WS to leave the AP is trying to break the fantasy component any way, this might actually add to the problem, IMO.

Now it might actually be better in the long run for the BS to just walk away initially. It would allow withdrawal to start at once and by 6 months as the divorce stuff began for real, the BS might be able to better handle it emotionally. In cases that are going to end in divorce, Plan A and B are really just a waste of effort so getting the separation over might be of benefit. (Please don't miss the sarcasm in this paragraph)

I know that my first instinct was to walk away and never look back. Some times I wonder if it might not have been a better choice. I know it sure would have been a lot less stressful since then and a lot more stable for a long time after D-day. By now the house could have been sold (probably not for much, but it would be gone) and I could be living in an apartment within walking distance of my job. Maybe a nice second or third story walk-up...

And when I got my infection, which might have been in part the result of the stress any way, I would have just hired someone to take care of me instead of my wife doing it, though I have no idea how I would have paid anyone. And since I ran out of vacation and sick days and personal days before I could go back to work I would have been broke with no income and mounting bills and probably filed for bankruptcy by now...

Of course I might be able to spend more time at our vacation cottage unless I lost it in the divorce...

I wonder what Dr Harley would have to say about this...

Wait! Don't we already know what he thinks about it?


Full Article here.

It is his web site...

Mark

If you have APs that live in close proximity to one another that is a huge factor to consider. In my case OW lived thousands of miles away so them shacking up wasn't an issue. There are lots of variables to consider. Some WSs are all but gone from the M except physically, some M are just bad to begin with, and others feel zero shame about their behavior and entitled to the nth degree. No plan may bring back a WS who is that forgone. I realize Dr. H says to Plan A then Plan B but MB is for the masses so we have a generic application. If he could counsel with every couple, the advice may vary.

PM,

I used to be known here as stillhurting01, don't know if you remember me or not as you posted to me a few times.
I'm divorced now, a year today.... it stinks. I found Rejoice marriage ministries on another thread here and looked it up. Maybe if your friend won't come here she might check out that website. Charlyne cares has daily devotionals that are meant to bring comfort to people who are standing in the gap for our prodigals. Maybe this would help your friend idk.
I have been standing in the gap for the restoration of my marriage now for over a year, It hasn't been easy and many days I want to give up. I believe God has spoken to my heart to continue to stand by the vows I made. I will probably get 2X4 as this isn't a popular concept.

Still

Yes there are a lot of variables that affect what works and what doesn't. There are WS's who move out immediately upon discovery and in with their OP. And then there are those who stay home, but continue to openly see the OP. And not all BS's are alike either. In fact I'm sure the grand majority don't even stumble across this website, let alone post here. The articles are supposed to be a guideline - obviously there are going to be some individual differences. We are not counsellors. The Harley's may provide more custom advise - we can only surmise based on reading others' stories here and our own experiences. We can't even say x percent of marriages work out if you do y. And we really don't know the personal strenght of the individuals posting.

But all that said, it's utterly heartwrenching to read when someone sticks in Plan A for too long and/or when they don't make full use of exposure (often the same people, I'm afraid). I find I'm more selective of threads I follow now - simply because I find some too painful.