black raven, I do have an older brother who is a 2nd degree blackbelt in karate and he has tried talking to WH more than once but WH doesn't want to talk to him. My dear brother has offered to be in the area if and when I do expose so he can hopefully protect me and, my parents are also very aware of the situation and concerned for my safety. It's really a tough thing because all my family love WH but right now he is not the guy they have known and loved the past 15 years. And they hate what he is doing to me and our children and our entire family. It's hard on everyone, as you all know.

I am getting the feeling that many of you think maybe it's best to not expose but to just go to Plan B and keep the A in the dark to assure my safety, if I fear being hurt by him but that if I am not afraid of him hurting me, then I should go for the jugular and expose expose expose - no matter that my lawyer friend (not my lawyer) has advised to not piss off WH? But then there's the fear of the courts accusing me of being vindictive? Gosh - is there a win win situation anywhere in this for me?

Its unlikely that a judge would hold that against YOU, most are not silly. Lets just consider that, would you be accused of being "vindictive" if you exposed that he won an award at work? Of course not. There is nothig wrong with exposure other than the fact that the WS is doing something wrong. Even so, so what if a judge thought you were "vindictive;" doesn't mean its going to harm your legal standing. We have had hundreds of exposures on these forums over the years with no problem whatsoever.

In your case, however, you have to do what is necessary to protect yourself from a H who has demonstrated he will assault you. You have an obligation to protect yourself and your kids. That comes first. You are ALL those kids have so that has to be your first priority.

That is NOT true. It is VERY likely. WS's attorney can make her seem like a very unreasonable person because of this and with all of the accusations flying around, it wouldn't be that hard.

Because of my friend who is ALSO an attorney, I have seen a lot of these things go on.

And...the PBL I wrote to WS is in WS's Discovery and has already been brought up once in court, I am certain it will come up again, as well as exposure. WS viewed it as vindictive and so does his attorney.

You can bet your sweet patootie that mom's WS WILL attempt to use it against her. Look what he's doing now, for Pete's sake! Every little dust mote will be brought out in court, you can count on it.

Even good things can be twisted to look bad. OWH works one night a week for free at a public radio station and that was twisted around in his case in an attempt to make him look inept.

So proceed with caution, mom. And talk to your attorney about writing that letter to your WS's attorney regarding the "keying" incident. That way it is on the record and you are protected to an extent.

Charlotte

You guys are awesome!! Thank you so much for the advice in this horrible time! I will update a little later.

What did your attorney say about all this? Take THAT advice.

Nothing is worse than a client that shoots themselves in the foot by going against advice. <I am sure this happens in quite a few divorces, tho>

Question:

Do you like your attorney?
Do you have faith/trust in his/her abilities? (gut trust)

Does your attorney have years experience with this court system? Judge?

Has your Attorney had cases with (knows) your WH attorney?

If you answered "yes" to most of the above questions, except the first one---
PAY ATTENTION TO THE ADVICE YOU GET. You paid for it.

momtobug, don't get scared off of exposure because of hypothetical fears. We have been doing them around here for years to great effect. An opposing attorney will use ANYTHING against a BS. ANYTHING can be twisted into a nefarious action, so don't worry about that. If you avoided doing anything that could be twisted into something nefarious, then you would do NOTHING to defend yourself. You might as well just roll over right now.

You have to do what is RIGHT for your situation and not be driven by fears. You will LOSE if you allow FEAR of "what if's" to drive you. I assure you that Steve Harley is a strong advocate of exposure and has been for years.

Even so, in your situation, I would carefully consider exposure because of your husband's violence. You have bigger problems here that just an affair. This is not a typical situation.


Charlotte, a WS will view anything and everything as "vindictive" that interferes with his affair? So what?

If we told folks to stop doing anything that might be viewed by a falling down drunk as "vindictive" then a BS would not be able to do anything to defend himself.

Are you trying to say that folks here should FORGO the most potent tool they have, EXPOSURE, out of fears that a WS might view it as "vindictive?" Should they also forgo Plan B letters now because a WS might try and use it against him? Should the BS also give up breathing for fear the WS will not like it?

Show me a BS who operates on FEAR and I will show you a BS who isn't going to make it.

That is good advice if a person wants an AMICABLE divorce. An attorney does not know how to save a marriage. He knows how to END a marriage and he is always looking for the easist, softest way to do that. They want no trouble, no nothing even when it might help the situation. When an attorney conflicts with what MB advises, we tell the person to get the attorney on board with Marriage Builders.

Exposure is the most potent tool these people have around here, it would be devastating to scare already scared people off from using the most powerful weapon they have. We have been using it for YEARS to good effect.

Im relatively new here so take my advice with a grain of salt. But any man which would lay a hand on his wife is not a man but a coward. This is the most despicable thing a man could do IMO. Why would you want him back anyway? His actions of abuse towards you should tell you that this is not a man you want to be with anymore. You need to end this abusive relationship and move on and hopefully find someone which will love you in the way you deserve to be loved. With respect, admiration, and devotion.

This is not totally about you either. Imagine if your kids stumbled on him hurting you and how this would effect their entire life. I still to this day, 31 yrs later, remember when my father hit my mother in front of me. Its ingrained into my memory and something I will never forget. I remember my mother being pushed into a glass door which broke upon impact and cut her lip. I still remember the blood streaming down her face and my feeling of dread when I saw this, as a 4 yr old. Thank god she left the [censored] and never looked back. She then remarried and is living in joy and happiness like you could be.

IMO, when a man crosses this boundary and hurts their spouse physically is a sign and a means to an end. Do yourself a favor and move past this. There is light at the end of this miserable dark tunnel you are in right now. And once you enter this light you will never look back and be happy once again.

I asked not so much for someone to be there for protection during exposure, but in general. To find out if your H seriously fears anyone who can tell him to knock it off with threatening you in any way. You are always going to have to deal with this man because of your children (assuming he wants a role in raising them) so even after all this D ugliness is over, you don't want him threatening you every time he wants his way.

Personally I am not afraid of bullies. If my H was dumb enough to touch/threaten me he'd be one sorry ahole. My family is very close and if I needed reinforcements, one call from me would have them descending on him like the dogs of hell. (Disclaimer - I'm not talking physical violence here)

I would still expose but I'd be smart about it. I'm not going to advise you to do something that I wouldn't do myself. WH knows you are afraid of him and will use that against you. When people push me, I push back harder. But I'm not standing in your shoes and don't know all the dynamics involved.

My best friend is getting a D. On occassion her stbexh started intimidating her by throwing stuff around and punching holes in walls. He never touched her, but she was concerned for herself and her children. However, she stood up to him and he sure backed off when she started telling everyone that he was an abuser.

Think things through before you act, but don't be afraid to act if you need to.

Personally, I would do exactly as BlackRaven suggested if I were in this situation. I would do everything short of taking out a billboard and then move to divorce. [I would not remain married to a wife beater]

Mainly because it would be HELPFUL to the man I was going to be linked to because of my kids. Helping him hide his secret will enable him to remain a BAD MAN and I would not want to have to deal with a bad man for the next 18 years. Exposure is not a magic cure, but it sure increases the odds he will wake up and change his ways.

But again, mtb, you have to make your first priority the protection of yourself and your kids. If you can do that and expose, then fine. If not, then I wouldn't.

Going to Plan B is completely independent from exposure. It's not one or the other.

Listen, he's going to accuse you of being vindictive if you part your hair on a different side one morning. That's the way WS's are. It's the court's job to rule out what is true and what are empty accusations. The more empty accusations he throws around, the less credible he will appear to the court. This on top of the fact that he is physically abusive will bury him. Basically, give him enough rope and he'll hang himself with it.

How in the world can exposure be vindictive? What are you supposed to tell people when you go to Plan B and actually live in separate places? Adultery is the most painful thing that can happen to a person - what are you supposed to do, suck it up and smile about it?

And I agree with everyone that says to get the heck out of there ASAP before this man seriously injures you. I was a battered wife once and it is no place to be.

ITA.

And look into a restraining order regardless.

Perfectly said, Tabby..

Thanks Mel.

I just read the post on the other thread about how events played out regarding the keying of OW's car. Even looking at this as an outsider and having only heard your side of the story, I have to say that woman is cracked. It seems the cop thinks so too. If your WH is hanging around her, people are going to think he's cracked as well. Including the judge.

Let WH accuse you of being vindictive and anything else he wants to accuse you of. He's digging his own grave here. He's just angry with you because you won't pass him a shovel.

Mum to bug: So sorry for the spot you find yourself in.

However be mindful that
keeping secrets ONLY works in the favor of those doing the dirty deeds.
[Let this be a lesson to others watching, reading and hopefully learning].

For instance take NOT reporting your husbands abuse towards You.

Unfortunately,
now ONLY the 2 of you really know what he did and how he operates.

You protected him out of some misguided loyalty (of which he has zero towards you) and now he's still threatening and going to come after you full tilt in court and any other arena he chooses.

Sadly now were you to bring up the truth( the abuse) you'll simply be made to look spiteful and desperate.

However,
had you got what he actually DID DO, on the record .......everything else you would bring to light would have so much more credibility.
Then he'd be on the defensive (as he should be) instead of you.

So even in your own situation,
assisting the WS in covering his actions, lies and deceit ......only hurts your own cause in the end.
Stay Well.

Mum,

Why don't you get a restraining order right now? Go down to the police station and sign a statment that your H has physically hurt you in the past, is in an affair and very upset with you for trying to get him to stop. Tell them that he hurts you when he is mad. And that he is very very mad right now. I bet you will get your RO today.

I don't know about the exposure thing. If you do that make sure you have a RO first so he can't just show up for a little 'talk'.

Do a google search on red flag strangulation attempt domestic. Strangulation attempts are now seen as a major indicator that your situation will lead to your death in a domestic abuse situation. It is beginning to be taken very seriously in law enforcement (and since he works with the fire department he probably is aware of the seriousness of what he did when he laid hands on you and tried to choke the life out of you).

My advice is do not mess around with this using MB techniques. Do not challenge him with exposure, anything. When you thwart him, you are in danger. Get advice from domestic abuse experts. Take this seriously!

Nano is right! My daughter had to flee for her life when her live-in boyfriend/father of her children strangled her until she passed out. He is now charged with "Felony Assault with a Deadly Weapon" (his hands!). This is serious stuff.

He's already demonstrated that he is capable of physically abusing you and it usually never GETS BETTER. It usually progresses, especially if he got away with it the first time.

Plan B - right away !


Only "expose" when asked:

"Why don't you see/talk to WH?"

You say:

"I had to cut off contact with WH because he physically attacked me during several arguments about his adultery."

If anyone asks about WH or your marriage or your welfare (any question, really) you give the same response.

"How have you been? What's going on?"

"I had to cut off contact with WH because he physically attacked me during several arguments about his adultery."


"How are the kids?"

"The kids are doing as good as could be expected under the circumstances. I had to cut off contact with WH because he physically attacked me during several arguments about his adultery."

However, I would not expose to anyone who does not ask how you are doing or the status of your family. (for safety reasons) You cannot be "dinged" legally for answering questions truthfully. Later, you could use those who have asked questions about how you are doing as witnesses (if necessary).

And keep a journal of all activity - starting today.
Make daily (dated) entries of any and all WH contacts.

in person
phone
text
etc, whatever

also make a log of people who you told:
"I had to cut off contact with WH because he physically attacked me during several arguements about his adultery."

Like this: ~~~> "Today our school principal asked how I was and I answered; "I had to cut off contact with WH because he physically attacked me during several arguements about his adultery."

Journal EVERYTHING. Just the facts. No feelings or assumptions about WH's motives.

Like this: ~~~> "Today April 3, WH sent a text saying: "You bi-ch, you will pay for this." I did not reply."

NOT like this: ~~~> "Today April 3, WH sent me a nasty text. Why is he so mean?"

See the difference?
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