Not from me, I kind of figured that would happen after the meetings.

W is very depressed, has been for a while. I really think she checked out of our marriage a long time ago, don't have much hope right now. I have read a lot of things on here and followed a lot of threads. I expected her to say many of the things she said. But she is very resolute in saying it is over. I don't know if the stories I read on here are common, or just to sell books and seminars.

I don't know if she will stay home or not. I have told her I don't want her to go, told her everything our marriage means to me and how I see the past and my lacking. Told her this over and over the last several months. I know it did no good while the A was still going on. Have been very calm, surprising myself. She has a very low self worth right now, the circumstances of our marriage added to that, I withdrew and she felt rejected. Looking back, I there were many times she told me pretty explicitly that she needed more, but I was the typical blind husband, maybe it is too late.

Just wanted to tell you that I'm living a story where my wife expressed over and over that the marriage was over. I stuck with Plan A and she would come back to me, then go back the OM. Finally I couldn't take it anymore and told her I was done. Then she was very sorry and wanted to save the marriage. It was up and down more after that, but the recent turn has her working very hard to save the marriage. Just want to tell you that I had the same worries as you, but that it is real and the MB methods are as sound as they come. Once your wife gets through withdrawal, you may see some real changes in her. Remember - she didn't leave the marriage, she had an affair. This means the marriage wasn't done in her eyes when the affair began, and it's the effect of the affair to make the marriage seem hopeless. If she sees a chance for forgiveness and to keep her life and her marriage, she very well may come around. It probably has as much to do with you as anything. If you want the marraige then fight for it. Don't listen to her too closely. Her mind is in a very confused and dark place.

She has talked to her parents this morning, she knows she has made a mess. I just talked to my D20 and W is on the way to her apt. at school to talk. My D is struggling with how she could have done this and not considered all the people she was hurting, I told her she had every right to ask that question. I told her that people involved in affairs can't see anything but the relationship and are willing to do anything to keep it.

I hope it goes well.

I have been reading your story off and on, thanks for the encouragement.

Can you imagine what they went through, knowing "something" was wrong, and maybe even knowing exactly what was wrong -- yet feeling like they couldn't say anything to anyone about it?

If they talked to WW, she'd be angry.
If they talked to you, your world would come crashing down.

That's a lot of burden on a young person, a burden that is not theirs to carry. You did GREAT by speaking honestly with them.

I encourage you to also tell OMW in person, and give her a copy of the emails too.

Your WW will swear the M is over, and that she has no feelings for you, and hasn't for a long long time. Don't listen to that. Set your own goals, stick to them, and post here for encouragement.

While the MB books are great and I hear from other posters here that the weekends and phone counseling are without equal, it is not all a gimmick to sell some books and tapes. There are plenty of folks here (and many more who no longer frequent the boards) who used books from the library and never paid one red cent to turn their marriages around. The advice you will get here is from staunch MB believers, but we don't make any money off of encouraging you to follow Harley's principles.

Herb, please contact her ASAP and give her all the information you have. You would not believe how ignorant people are about the craftiness of adulterers so it would not surprise me if the church told him to go home and tell his wife and trusted him to do that. Someone to needs to make DAMN SURE this woman has the full truth and team up with her to make sure the affair is killed for good. You can work together and compare notes in this regard.,

But please tell her YOURSELF. Leaving this to chance is too great of a risk.

Please, please expose to OMW and to the church parishoners ASAP.

Well, I just sent a long email to OMW. Had to send it to her work address, that was the only way I knew to contact her. Also sent her scans of some of what I had. I hope you guys are right.

Wife is staying at her parents tonight, I don't know if she will come back.

Why is it that I feel that I have just blown any chance of ever getting back with my wife. But I realize I had no chance at all with things remaining like they were. I have so little hope. I did not realize how much I loved her until I started trying to love her like I should have all along.

I know that everyone says that the fog must lift and withdrawal take place before things can change. I just don't really know how long ago it has been since she did love me. It was well before all of this occurred, I can see in looking back.

I made such a mess out of my marriage, I wonder if I can love someone or if someone can love me, or if they do, will they regret it.

It is because you men are WIRED to be terrified of his wife's anger. But keep in mind that your marriage can survive some temporary anger; it can't survive an affair. What you have just done was the most impactful and effective thing you could do for your marriage. As long as it was kept secret you were helping it THRIVE.


I have more hope today than I did before. I didn't think you would make it when you first posted, but this tells me that do have what it takes to save your marriage, if it can be saved.


That is the rule, rather than the exception. But it doesn't matter. If you follow this program you can fall back in love again.

Don't despair, Herb. Your marriage is much more likely to recover now. You did a great thing for your marriage and for your wife. Some day she will thank you for fighting for her.

Herb, do her parents know all about the affair and with WHOM? Can she get away with seeing the OM from their house? Will they tolerate her adultery and is she there so she can sneak off wtih the OM?

Herb, I just want to let you know how proud I am that you have exposed to all the right people. I'm in the same boat you are and I have set my exposure date. Just have to get all my ducks in a row, so to speak. I'm praying for you and your family.

Her parents know, I told them who last night after I had revealed it to the deacons. They had know there was someone last fall, but did not know who and thought it was past. I thought it was past then too. But that was before I saw the danger in storing combustible things so close to each other.

They will not tolerate it. I am glad she is there. She has been changing in a lot of ways even before this, her mother is one who always makes her daughters think that they are not living up to what she expects, even when they are over 40. Their relationship needs a lot of repairing, the fact she is over there, facing them, may be a good thing.

As far as seeing him, I am as certain as I can be in a case like this that there was never really any seeing of each other, going on dates, things like that. The relationship started as him counseling her, both were vulnerable. He is older (56ish), has had some health issues, a walking mid life crisis. Not that I am saying it is an excuse, but the were a lot of meetings at church and such, during the day, in the open. She told me once, way back when they first tried to end it, that they hat met at a Veterans Cemetery and walked once (he is an old marine). This has been so intense and hard to end, and I am very sure there has been no sex. (Snooped a lot). I realize that doesn't matter much in my prospects, but I am glad.

Well, I need to take some meds to sleep.

Lot's of good coaches on here. I wonder sometimes if they just enjoy reading about the fallout

"enjoy???" You aren't kidding. And the reason is because we know the more conflict caused in the affair, the more likely the affair is to end. And the more likely the affair is to end, the more likely the marriage will make it.

People here KNOW how effective exposure is in killing an affair so they REJOICE when it is done. Dr. Harley's prophetic words: "When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. [color:#993399][size:20pt]Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."[/size] [/color]

I just want to thank everyone, especially the regulars, for taking so much time to help guide the ones of us that are finding themselves in the situations that we never thought we would. Every one is different, but really the same. It was impossible for me to think rationally, as is evident in my first postings.

If I had confronted and had the emails from last fall as evidence way back when, maybe this would not have gotten as far.

Since my initial postings, I read and re-read the articles on this site, looked at many of the threads, and finally made the plans to do what I had to do. Learned how to be pretty sneaky on here as well.

Let me share some of my experience. I have known many things a long time, months in fact. I tried to bring about the end of things by personal meetings, using guilt, doing the right thing, etc, It would work at times, but only temporarily. I have learned the wisdom of the board that affairs will not end on their own by using rational thought, it doesn't exist in them. At best, like in my case, I believe, the relationship changed into a not so intense thing, but stayed very friendly and secret. I know that it was just a matter of time before something would fan it higher.

After discovering an email about two weeks ago, I confronted W and OM, turned up the pressure, but did not expose. This was a big mistake, if you are in my shoes. All that did was temporarily stop the contact, and it put me in the position that W felt I was blackmailing her. I had a big hammer I could drop if she did not do what I wanted. Not very healthy for our relationship.

But I read these boards, put together an exposure strategy, snooped and found things that I printed. I hoped and prayed I would never use it, but based on my W's refusal to try certain things, I knew deep down I would. So I watched and waited for the inevitable and blew the lid.

So, in short, I can say that from what I have read on these boards, that the collected wisdom can't be denied. I read my life story written by people I had never met, and I saw the future foretold, even if I didn't want to believe it.

I guess what I am saying, based on what I have read here, in other books, seen on DVDs, is although the details may be unique in each situation, they are really not. Sadly, this is universal and predictable, both how it happens and how to get out.

Some marriages can't be saved, I suspect. But if one can be, it just seems that this is the best way to do it. It just rings too true.

Herb, bless your heart for listening to us! Much of what MB teaches is counterintuitive and surely not what popular culture teaches. But you hit on a couple of very important things that make all the difference between winning and losing this battle.


This understanding is critical. A wayward mind is an intoxicated mind that does not respond to reason. They have the same mental impairment as a falling down drunk. So, to attempt to use reason on a person who has no powers of reason is futile. It is better to throw the drunk into jail [metaphorically] than it is to attempt reason with him. Waking up in jail makes a huge impact!

Even worse is trying to negotiate with the WS. That is like negotiating with a terrorist. This is a person who is self will run riot with an active addiction to protect! They don't ever fight fair and will only use any concessions to advance their addiction. Terrorists only respond to STRENGTH. In the case of a marriage, it needs to be a MIXTURE of both a carrot and a stick.



Exactly! First off, it usually just drives them further underground and secondly, if there is a "threat" of exposure there, the affairees VERY OFTEN go to the targets first and pre-empt the BS with a highly spun story. The story is something like this "BS is a jealous wacko who imagines that everyone wants to sleep with his wife. He has mental problems." Then when you do expose, your credibility is shot and exposure targets will be hostile. I have seen this happen so many times over the years.

Herb, you did a great thing for every one involved by exposing this affair. I predict your wife will come around. Your marriage is very salvagable if you implement an effective program of recovery once she gets away from the OM. You can fall in love again.

Good job, my friend!

I need some real advice in another area as well.

I know that the key to ever reconciling is to provide love deposits, as they are called here, and not withdraw.

If I make arrangements to set up my own checking account and start to do things to prepare for the eventuality of divorce, is that drawing a line in the sand, would it do a of of harm? I want to just leave things alone for now, but wonder if it is wise. How long should I wait?

I would not prepare for divorce, but I would suggest that you protect yourself financially. For example, if your accounts are together, you might want to move that money for now so it is not plundered.

I just went and got several thousand dollars of savings bonds that are in both our names (Herb or Mrs Herb) and took them to a different place for safekeeping. She will never know they're gone for a while.

Luckily, we don't have a ton of cash in our savings and checking right now (how ironic or stupid does that sound)