Well, wife just left, she had come to get some things, going back to her folks. D14 went with her tonight.

We talked some, I really expect to get served with some kind of papers soon.

I expressed how this was not necessary, how much I loved her. Told her that I realized how little I had given over the last 20 years and told her I could do it now. She has built a thick wall around her heart, I helped build it by making her feel rejected over the years of our marriage. Looking back, I feel like the biggest fool of all time.

Of course, she says she can't even remember loving me, all those things. I told her that I realize that I lost her heart, that it wasn't stolen from me. But she is pretty stubborn.

I don't think the anger will go away, honestly. Sometimes, I think a person just checks out and leaves, and there is no turning back. This is one of them, I fear. I mean, there was not a lot of fulfillment for a long time, why should she believe in it now?

It always does. She is the crack addict who is furious that you snatched her crack. When she sobers up she won't be angry anymore.


They all check out and leave. Otherwise they wouldn't have an affair. But most can and do turn back.


This is the rule rather than the exception. There usually is an unfullfilling marriage in these cases. But it takes 2 people to screw up a marriage, Herb. It didn't get that bad all on its own.


Weknowweknowweknow, this is classic fogbabble. Let me guess, she "hasn't loved you in years" altho you have plenty of evidence to the contrary? Even so, just because she did not love you in the past does not mean she won't love you in the future.

You have to realize - PLEASE LISTEN TO ME, HERB! - that she is intoxicated by her affair right now. Once she sobers up from the abstience, this will all change! She won't be talking like this. Right now she is angry because you took the crack pipe, but she will get over it soon. Just don't let her babble get to you!

Have you seen the movie Fireproof? If not, please go rent that and do what the BS did. He was in your same situation.

This is far from hopeless, Herb. I know you are scared to death because her anger looks very scary, but please believe me when I say that I have seen far worse than this come back from the dead. This is nothing more than an angry addict who misses her drug of choice.

Go get that movie Fireproof, please.

Sorry to keep replying to my own posts, but I feel completely alone. This lets me get some thoughts out of my head.

I feel so little hope right now, I think I feel worse than when this all started. I am not as depressed, I don't think, but I see things more realistically now, and hope fades away.

I like hearing the words of hope on here, but they have a short shelf life with me it seems. It has been so long since I felt any encouragement

Let me ask something, I have never really been able to know what it meant, maybe nothing.

The end of last August is when, the best I can figure, that the EA really began in earnest, because they ended it right away. Wife had been out of town for work one night, came home and went to bed, said she didn't feel good. The next day was Saturday, it was about 7:30 AM, I was up, straightening some things up. I had been sleeping down there for years,if that gives you a clue about the state of our marriage. She came down and sat on the couch, she never gets up that early on Saturday voluntarily. Since she was up so early, I had not made any tea for her, so I went to do that, when I came back she was crying, and told me she wanted me to leave. I was stunned. Left on Sunday. Then something happened that sometimes gives me hope, and sometimes just confuses me. As I was leaving, she said, "I still love you". I believe it was the next day we talked and she told me she had turned to someone else and who it was. That they had ended it that weekend. I do believe they tried to, but all the conditions were there to keep it going, including a confused BH. I had to leave for a while, but came back and told her that I was not OK with it happening and she said, "I'm Sorry" She also told me in the next day or so several details that sounded confessional and that they had stopped on that Friday, which explained her depression. That is about the level of what I understood, I thought it was something that could go away and we could still exist at that church together. If you have read the thread, you see what happened.

After that long winded story, what I want to ask is if you think her telling me she loved me in a time that she thought the A was over means anything. i want to think it means that there some love there, but I end up thinking that it was her easing some guilt. How about her telling me "Sorry" and telling me about it so quickly.

I know I am just hoping to grab some straws to get me through the night.

ok, Herb, I am going to tell you straight. She probably is not in love with you and hasnt been for a long time. You let your marriage die on the vine.

But you don't WANT the marriage you had in the past, Herb. That marriage has resulted in this AFFAIR. Surely you don't want that back? Do you want back the same messed up marriage that led to this? you would be crazy to want that back.

What you can have is a NEW MARRIAGE where you are in love again. That is what MB teaches. And he really means it and he really delivers.

So please leave the past in the past and focus on building a GREAT FUTURE, because now you have a chance! For the first time you really have a chance as long as contact has really ended.

I feel more hopeful about your situation today than I did when you posted last month. You had great reason to feel hopeless then. You don't now. NOW you have a chance.

I think you are being misled about the hopefulness of your situation BY HER ANGER. Could that be it? To my astonishment, men are very susceptible to their wive's anger. They are downright terrified of it. We have men on here who can't even conduct the most basic strategy because their ONLY GOAL is to avoid their wive's wrath. They will let their marriage go to the dogs in the divorce courts before they will risk her wrath.

Could that be why you are so unable to see the true picture? Are men just wired to be blinded by a wife's anger?

Have a copy a friend lent me, but it haven't watched it yet. I guess I will do it tomorrow, I was hoping to watch it together some day.

nooooo, you really need to watch it alone, Herb!! It will give you hope. The man in the movie did a brilliant plan A, he stood up to the OM [had a come to Jesus with him and told him to leave his wife alone] and did a brilliant job winning his wife back. he got very discouraged at times, but held out and saved his marriage.

Melody, you are obviously right. I am just needy, pitifully so, it seems. I did one of the Five Love Languages surveys once and words of affirmation along with touch came up high. Well. I ain't getting no touch. So I could be fishing for the other. I need friends right now, and I feel that you are one who tells me straight.

Have the love dare book, but haven't been reading it lately. not much chance to put it to use. Don't feel like reading my Bible right now either. Have been reading SAA

Herb, you really, really need to watch that movie. It will give you some much needed hope. your situation is very hopeful! I would not tell you this if I didn't believe it. You are in better shape today than you were last month. You are just nervous by her anger.

But what you have done, Herb, is the equivalent of snatching the crack pipe from the crack head. Sure, the crack head is FURIOUS and is out looking for a new crack pipe IN VAIN, but she won't find it. Her druggy days are over so she will now sober up.

As she sobers up her fury will subside as she accepts that her crack ho days are DONE, DONE, DONE! And as she sobers up she can work on your marriage with you.

Last month, she was still getting daily fixes of crack so there was no hope. Today, the crack is gone!!

Surving an Affair is a very good read, Herb. I think Dr H has it RIGHT in every way.

Herb - Please listen to Mel. You and your marriage CAN survive your wife's anger - it cannot survive an ongoing affair.

Dr Harley says that exposure mrks the start of recovery and it certainly did in my marriage. My wife's affair was dealt a fatal blow with exposure and ended a week after d-day.

All is not lost or hopeless. Exposure has most probably saved your marriage. Infidels don't seem to like everyone seeing their lurve for the sleazy adulterous pile of crap it is.

Keep your chin up. You have dealt the affair a fatal blow.

Herb, Mel came on my thread early on and talked some sense into me. One of the first lessons I learned in this journey was to stop being afraid of my wife's anger. It has always been an emotion she expresses with great zeal, and I've always tried to just keep it from flaring up. When I stopped being afraid of it, it stopped having any power over me. Amazing change. I still have to remind her sometimes that her anger just rolls right off my back, but it was a very important moment in changing the course of the affair. Hang in there and just stand up for what is right and stand up for yourself. You can do it in loving but firm ways. Your wife will respect you for it.

She needs to hear from you.


No. Not just to sell stuff - you can get almost everything here free in the FAQ's etc. The books just fill it all out. The Seminar is great but this site is not here just to make money.

What your wife SAYS now is as a result of the fog she is in. Don't take it to heart. If she establishes NC with OM this will rapidly change.


It's not too late. Press ahead.

My wife would have said the same just after d-day. Recovery is indeed possible. Follow the program for restoring romantic love to your marriage when the affair has ended.

Thanks for all the encouragement. I am trying to have faith, but it is faith in things unseen. I am very alone right now.

I will just wait until tomorrow. The OMW should get my email by then, wonder what will happen.

This ordeal has been good for my waistline, however. I have gone from 308 lbs to 263 since Sept. and that includes me lifting weights and bulking up some. I am a big guy, but not that big.

I think I saw someone on here call it the infidelity diet. It works, but I don't really recommend it.

Is there way to change the title of this thread, I don't think it reflects the discussion now.

Another question.

What should I say to W when she is here getting things to take to her folks, clothes and things like that. I have been telling her things like "I wish you would stay", "There is no reason go", and of course "I love you, I really want this to work", stuff like that. This always give her reason to tell me how it is over, etc.

Should I say things like that now, or just ask if she needs anything.

Yeah, I lost 35 pounds in a month and a half. Works wonders. I weigh what I weighed in high school.

Yeah, quit doing that. Don't act needy, pleading or scared. That is REAL unattractive. Just smile and go about your business.

Why is she leaving? How does she explain that?

To change the thread title, hit mod notify and ask the mods to change it. Tell them what you want it changed to.

Last night, she said "Yes I was wrong, but what you did was wrong too." She basically says she doesn't even want to look at me. I believe she is very embarrassed by the affair, and is mad that I told her parents and the kids. She said I should have come to her and let her tell them. Other crocks like that.