Bea16,
I feel the same way you do about my M. Our R is going great but should there be a second Dday - I'm out the door. There's no way I'd put up with a second A. Whereas you came from divorced parents - mine were the other extreme. Two people totally unhappy in the M and are still together in their 70s-80s. It's that old generation mentality that we stick together no matter what. I can't begin to explain the damage their relationship caused us kids - poor communication skills, lack of affection, lack of emotions, lack of laughter - but amazingly I always felt loved. I think the sadest thing is knowing that they never truly became the person they could have been because they chose not to change their life. I don't think I could stay in a M for the sake of kids or convenience only.

GG

Some people believe that marriage is a lifelong covenant which we vow to never break. We promise to stay with our spouse "for better or worse".

The one "out" we have is the unrepentant adultery of our spouse. In that case, God gives relief and a last resort remedy. It is not to be used because the marriage is "loveless", but rather when it has been irretrievably broken by the unfaithfulness of one of the partners.

Living in a "loveless" marriage is not an excuse to break your marriage vows. Almost all marriages are "loveless" at some point. The attitude that I will only stay in the marriage when my spouse meets my needs for love (or whatever else) has led to a 50% divorce rate in America.

Staying in a "loveless" marriage is certainly difficult and heartbreaking. I know firsthand. My wife has not treated me with love (or the respect I crave) for many years. In fact, she has admitted in counseling to hating me in her heart for no legitimate reason. But she is the spouse God gave me. Much as I have wanted to, I can't run away because I don't "feel the love."

...for those of you saying "if my WS has a 2nd affair, I'm out-a-here!" Be careful. I said the same 14 years ago after A#1. And probably would have headed to Plan D @ DDay#2 if it had not been for MB.com. SAA and this site have helped me understand why affairs happen. Yes, we are only 5 months past Dday and i'm not sure this will all work out in the long run. May need to head to Plan D...

And back to OP, I've told my wife there is no way I'm staying in this marriage "for the kids." I love my kids and would step in front of a train for them! But I refuse to live a lie to them or let them live in a cold and loveless household.

Comfortably_Numb has some great information and statistics regarding divorce. However, having worked on a University campus for many years I understand that *research* can be unintentionally flawed, intentionally skewed, and frankly, you can drum up numbers to justify pretty much anything you like. I'm not calling you out ComfyNumb, just saying stats can be deceiving.

Remember all those studies on heart disease back in the 50's and 60's...yea, they failed to account for fact that lots of people smoked(?!!!), and their control groups weren't very large. (nit picking, I know...)

Bottom line is this -- I'm working on this marriage and will continue to do so as long as my wife has a good attitude and is willing to work on the marriage WITH me. There is no time-table for Plan D. I'm not in this for my kiddos, I'm in this for me.

Forgive the poor spelling...

I think it goes hand in hand with boundries. There is nothing wrong with a spouse that is willing to try to save a bad marriage to say. "I will work on it until this point".

That is a boundry. For me, My oldest is a Junior, I would want her to have her last year at her home H.S. I could not/nor want to live in my current town single (with one income)--IS this a bad thing to want for her?-- sue me.
My house has LOST $250k in equity (In Detroit- so many people are foreclosed and loosing jobs they are next to giving away homes)
There is always hope for me. that once the "cuts" are over, people will not panic and sanity will come back to the housing market. Maybe, my H will return to sanity by then too!-;)

Not only would I loost the $150K investment I made into the property, but I have to finance the other $100K If I sold today --- I doubt I'd forclose--I would not want to. Is thinking about being responsible to my community a "bad" thing? Or being worried about my retirement? -- sue me.

This is not about birds and bees and "love". This is greater than my feelings or my H feelings. If it became intollerabel or abusive-- I might change my mind. Hope I do.

No one here should not beat yourself up for thinking this way--

I give them KUDOS for making a real life plan. It goes with MB principles, in an odd way, if you think about it.

I would hope everyone here would oppen themselves up to hope-- and hope that things can or will improve before timeline up.

Divorce is a terrible thing. ahhhhhhhh <sigh>

The day after d-day, I remember asking my husband to stay married until our 10th anniversary (Oct 2009)for practical and financial reasons. He agreed. Then a month later, I asked for 2 years to give us enough time to heal. He agreed again saying that he didn't want to throw away so many good years without trying to save our marriage. The next month I asked for another 40 years - just to make sure we had given it everything that we could. He still agreed.

gg,

The biggest benefit of the divorce was my parents remarrying two wonderful people who had a huge impact on my life. It was also healthy to observe, close up, relatively normal marriages.

Ottert,

I'm sorry to hear you feel you're in a loveless marriage. No one deserves that. It was the deep love and respect my H and I have for each other that got us through his horrid midlife crisis and the A that came with it. H's normal self made just enough guest appearances during that year to give me the strength to let it play out (although I didn't know about the A then, and that might have changed the outcome).

DNU1,

I found MB one day after the PA d-day. It saved me and my marriage. We have used the principles to get through this and to make the M better than ever. My feeling is that after all the pain and now that we have the tools to work through our problems and after all the growing and learning we've done, if H had another A, that would be the last straw. From your post, I take it you didn't find MB until after A#2.

I am more like Krazy. I am waiting until...I can't take tyring to get past it anymore. Unlike Krazy, I hope 2.5 years from now I find myself in a better, happier place. So I think everyone who is trying to recover is "waiting until..."

Those who are truly recovered are the ones that can say they are not waiting...

Yep, didn't find MB.com until *after* DDay#2. And yes, Harley principles kept me from heading right to Plan D / FU.

Don't get me wrong...this still sucks-[censored], and I still have my low points. And you (and my wife) can bet that should her attitude change (not wanting to work on M, ENs, etc.) and I see her wandering down the path towards another affair, I won't let an affair start...I will be done with the marriage before that point.

Attitude is everything right now. Armed with knowledge of MB.com / Harley principles, hope, and the grace of God I march forward towards recovery. I know where I'm going and I think my wife is marching closely behind me for now. Hopefully some day she will march by my side.

Well y'all, thanks for this thread. It sure is thought-provoking. I guess I kinda play both sides of the coin on this one. I sure don't condone divorce, I never wanted it, heck I STILL don't want it...but it's what is happening & I will "make the best" of it. Thanks to this thread, I had a(nother) conversation w/my kids (quickly becoming stereotypical "children of divorce") on the subject. Remember, not every success story is deemed such as a result of marriage saved...

[quote=DNU1Attitude is everything right now. Armed with knowledge of MB.com / Harley principles, hope, and the grace of God I march forward towards recovery. I know where I'm going and I think my wife is marching closely behind me for now. Hopefully some day she will march by my side. [/quote]

I hope I did the quote thing right.

I'm 3 1/2 months further along in this process than you are. There have been some bumps in the road. Recently, H was able to get to the point where he could talk freely about all that happened. It's allowed us to get a much better perspective on things and, as they say, the truth will set you free. We're now at peace and turning our focus on heaing H's relationship with all the other people he hurt during the midlife crisis.

Good luck, I hope your wife catches up to you and stays with you forever!

Divorce is a legal, public declaration that the M has failed and IS OVER. Staying in the same house and not having the public declaration is still divorced and a failed M. It is that simple. Obviously, something was deeply wrong in the M for an A to occur. At any rate, going to PLAN D, formally announcing the M was broken and has ended, moving out, then starting completely over is the only way I could possibly see to SAVE the relationship. Yeah, there are major disruptions w/ such a path, but I still feel like its the path that makes the most sense if you really want to rebuild your relationship. Just like a house, once its damaged beyond repair, its torn down, only then can it be rebuilt.

I disagree with this statement.

It is not obvious.
Adultery sometimes occurs in otherwise good marriages.

"Affairs usually begin with an attraction to someone you know fairly well" - Dr Harley.

Adultery happens when one spouse fails to protect his/her bounderies & allows an outsider to meet intimate ENs (usually in secrecy).

I also do not agree with this. Many, if not most, adulteries have nothing to do with the actual, real and true state of the marriage.

The closest one should come to that statement is, “Obviously, something was deeply wrong in the way the WS perceived the marriage.”

But even closer to reality is to say, “Obviously, something was deeply wrong in the adulterer for an A to occur.”

EGG ZAK LEE

And I disagree with this statement (unless you're only speaking of your own perception). Many relationships marriages (more appropriate term for MB purposes) are saved without starting completely over. I'm living proof of that.

I'm thinking a fully recovered M would alleviate the need to visit this forum and engage in it continuously. JMHO

PEACE

And that's what you get for thinking.

I don't agree. You are never done working on your marriage and making sure that it is as healthy as it needs to be. I am so grateful for the veterans that are here to support those of us just beginning our recovery. It seems that most marriages don't fully recover. The few that make it to recovery are greatly appreciated here as inspiration to those of us drowning in the pain that adultery causes. I think that if you think you are fully recovered and then stop focusing on your marriage you are headed for your next d-day. JMHO

I think those who are recovered and are here posting give all of us hope that it can be done. I hope one day I can proudly come here and be an example that recovery can and does happen.

Thanks Stillstanding and HurtandShocked. I agree. I wouldn't exactly call me a vet, but I come here because I want to be able to help others who are experiencing the shock and pain of betrayal that adultery brings. I may not be able to help but ONE person, but if I can make a difference in someone's life, then I'm all over that.

I'm very appreciative of the vets who stick around too. They helped me immensely and they probably don't even know it. I'm still learning something new all the time on MB. I know one thing, my recovery looks 10x better than it would have without MB.