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Who cares what she thinks or what is wrong with her???
She is your EX! Go and concentrate on yourself. This is soo unhealthy


Plan D June 08
Me FBS 36
W 38
Married 13/1/09
The best is yet to come, with or without your WS
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 Originally Posted By: myfamilyilove
Who cares what she thinks or what is wrong with her???
She is your EX! Go and concentrate on yourself. This is soo unhealthy


Myfamily,

Thank you and, yes, I know you are correct.

I was venting on this thread and am not going to waste any emotional energy trying to "figure her out" as that is indeed unhealthy and futile. I know she is my "ex" and, believe me, I have been concentrating on myself and "living my own life" for quite some time now.

Problem is, I feel that process is interrupted ("sets me back somewhat") whenever she "re-appears" in some fashion. I do NOT SEEK it, trust me! That includes obviously visiting my neighborhood, coming to my workplace/interacting with collegues of mine, and "keeping track of me/my family/my activities". All of these things she has done--the last one she admitted to by finding out somehow about my brother's wedding...perhaps via the internet and then asking me about "how it went" and telling me about how she "thinks of XXXX (formerly close family members to her) all the time". Dr. Pittman writes that most WSs cannot help but "return to the scene of the crime" repeatedly--I'm sure that is what goes on here.

She always has ostensible "legitimate reasons" why this is so (visiting a friend, non-emergent medical care, nostalgia) but also has other choices as well that would avoid all such contact. Yes, I have thought about moving and will do so at some point. I do love my house/yard and don't want to deal with open houses, a loooong 'for sale' process, or dumping it "on the cheap" right now given the obvious market conditions afflicting real estate at present.

I appreciate your advice, sorry for the online venting/journaling...


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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SDCWman - you seem to spend a lot of time thinking about your WxW.

She first started seeing OM - three years ago, was it? - and is now trying to get pregnant.

I wonder if you still hope to reconcile with your xW.
If her last email ('just a thought away')is still giving you hope. If such hopes are poisoning your interest in or appeal to other women.

It would be sad to pine for your xW for years, yet to never reconcile, and to deprive yourself of the possibility of a happy marriage with someone else.

If you haven't yet given up on your xW - at what point would you? If she got pregnant? After 3 years? 5? 10?


Me 49 SAHD; W 41 SAHM; DS3, DS4.
Seven year affairage.
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SDCWMan,

Go ahead and vent. It's quite therapeutic to write about it. In my d-care class, they advised that we tell our story until we're sick of hearing ourselves. It's all part of the healing process, and some of us just take longer than others.

I haven't talked to my WH in almost two years, however when I saw him about 2 months ago I had somewhat of a relapse. I understand, and yes, it still hurts. Some hurts will always be there, but they lessen with time and we learn to live with them and realize that they are part of shaping the persons that we will eventually become. OK, so I'm not sure I really believe this now, but I will someday.

All of us (BSs) have gone through this. We don't understand it at all. Like Zelmo, I know I will never get any type of apology or amends and I've just accepted that. I also know that I didn't do my part in the M, and my WH was not happy, didn't love me anymore and felt that he found a better person. He describes me as non-affectionate and materialistic, where Op is a "touchy-feely" kind of person who lives on very little. The A's happened because they felt that we couldn't meet some important need that OP met. Will they regret it? Maybe, maybe not. Just have faith that down the line we will recover. Try to stay dark and work on YOU.

hug


BS - me 56
XWH - 57

12/25/06 - Dday - WH promised NC. Plan A in effect. Thought we were in recovery.

6-3-07 - Dday#2 Found out NC never took place and A never ended. Found MB NC promised again, but WH would not write NC letter.

9/07 - Dday #3. Still lying and sneaking around. Plan B implemented
WH wants nothing to do with me

Divorced as of 12/09 after 36 years
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Thank you all for your recent replies. I had forgotten all about this thread and happenned to stumble upon it when I saw the new posts.

I re-read the thread and remember how bad a day I was having when I first started it. Well, some good things have been going on since!

First, xWW has been notably absent ever since at the hypocritical, sell-out neighbors' house which is SO NICE! The less evidence and reminders I ever see of her betraying, duplicitous A$$, the better. I have thought of her and the pain she inflicted on so many people VERY LITTLE since...which is GREAT!

Second, I am seeing someone really wonderful over the last 2 months or so! No rush, but it sure does feel good to have such a great gal appreciate you--she has impressed me in a lot of ways so far. Loyalty is BIG to me :-)

Chai, I thank you for the permission to "vent" and it is indeed healthy. I post on MB not for advice on my own WW (which I realize now I am WAY better off WITHOUT) but to "get it out" and hopefully help others earlier in the process with what I have learned and read. I sometimes takes long "breaks" between posting and dive back in when an interesting thread catches my attention or when the inevitable "triggers" come along. Speaking of triggers, there have been a few in last 2 weeks...

1. The whole Elizabeth Edwards saga all over the news has to remind every BS of the needless pain that adultery causes and how it wrecks lives so callously. I'd like to ask fmr. Sen. John Edwards this: "Was it worth it, dumba$$?" LOL

2. There has been a spate of new divorces-in-progress among my colleagues at work. 3 of the 4 involve the WW/BH scenario I am so personally familiar with. One in particular involves a guy I consider a friend and I have been talking with him to help him through it. I hear the pain in his voice and I know EXACTLY what he is thinking and feeling without the need for words. I WAS precisely where he IS now. He approached me for help and support because he knew I was there 2 years ago...I want to help him, but I confess hearing all about it does bring back bad memories of betrayal, deceit, and wanton manipulation for me. I feel drained after talking with him but I know it is the right thing to do.

3. My folks were in town visiting me recently and I had a great time with them. The "unpleasantness" with my xWW is never discussed anymore (my parents loved xWW very deeply and were severely hurt and devastated by her betrayals and lies). One evening while my dad was in the shower, my mom (who had been cooking all day for us all at my house) suddenly became a little somber and "wanted to show me something". She had come across an old cookbook I had in the cabinet and had long forgotten about. It had been a gift from her to my then-fiance (now-xWW) from many years prior. She showed me how she had taped a new recipe over in the inside front cover and told me why...to obscure a hand-written message from her to my then-fiance. I said "no problem, Mom, didn't even know that was there". My mom put it back in the cabinet and I could hear her voice crack and see her tear up...it broke my heart. My then-WW treated my mom like total crap in 10/06 while she was secretly cake-eating between me and her affair...and had NEVER apologized. My mom still misses her and wishes that apology would come--it may never happen.

I guess those "triggers" led to me to posting some more...but I'm doing quite well otherwise. Thank you all...



xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Originally Posted By: 5outof6aintbad
SDCWman - you seem to spend a lot of time thinking about your WxW.

She first started seeing OM - three years ago, was it? - and is now trying to get pregnant.

I wonder if you still hope to reconcile with your xW.
If her last email ('just a thought away')is still giving you hope. If such hopes are poisoning your interest in or appeal to other women.

It would be sad to pine for your xW for years, yet to never reconcile, and to deprive yourself of the possibility of a happy marriage with someone else.

If you haven't yet given up on your xW - at what point would you? If she got pregnant? After 3 years? 5? 10?



5of6,

I think of her mainly when there are triggers that remind me...and i do post here sometimes to "vent those out" and be done with it. I actually enjoy thae way I feel afterwards.

To answer your question, NO I am not seeking or hoping for a reconciliation with her. It is too late for that. I won't go into the sordid and salacious details, but what I belatedly learned of her hidden, sleazy affair activities and her conduct towards OMW and OM's kids caused me to lose ALL RESPECT for her as a person of honor. It would take a major effort for me ever to be able to see her in a positive light again and I know that she will likely never be willing to swallow her stubborn pride to accomplish that. She is an AVOIDER. She never admitted anything, never told the truth even when discovered, never gave any explanation, and never even said "goodbye". She was like an adultering cockroach...she ran from the light and hid in the crevices immediately.

Even after her affair was known and exposed (and divorce was inevitable by her own choice), I asked her for one last cordial talk for "closure"...she agreed saying "that would be fine--we will talk soon". She never did and just ran away. Someday, I would like one 10-minute phone call with a simple acknowledgement of the truth and the pain she caused & a genuine expression of remorse for it. That's all I want from her anymore...I doubt I will ever get even that.


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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Quote:
To answer your question, NO I am not seeking or hoping for a reconciliation with her. It is too late for that. I won't go into the sordid and salacious details, but what I belatedly learned of her hidden, sleazy affair activities and her conduct towards OMW and OM's kids caused me to lose ALL RESPECT for her as a person of honor. It would take a major effort for me ever to be able to see her in a positive light again and I know that she will likely never be willing to swallow her stubborn pride to accomplish that. She is an AVOIDER. She never admitted anything, never told the truth even when discovered, never gave any explanation, and never even said "goodbye". She was like an adultering cockroach...she ran from the light and hid in the crevices immediately.

Even after her affair was known and exposed (and divorce was inevitable by her own choice), I asked her for one last cordial talk for "closure"...she agreed saying "that would be fine--we will talk soon". She never did and just ran away. Someday, I would like one 10-minute phone call with a simple acknowledgement of the truth and the pain she caused & a genuine expression of remorse for it. That's all I want from her anymore...I doubt I will ever get even that.


Reading that I see you don't expect to reconcile, I see venom, but I definitely don't see indifference to WxW. Indifference might indicate you'd moved on, that you were ready to start again.

You grief seems to have gone on rather long, and I wondered if it might have tipped over into pathological grief.

Anyway, I see you're interested in someone. If you'll take some non-MB advice from someone whose marriage ended at a similar age, don't underrate yourself (I sense you might tend to do this, and the D won't have helped that) and choose carefully. I think women don't see aging in men the same way men regard aging in women. Your choices might be broader than you think.


Me 49 SAHD; W 41 SAHM; DS3, DS4.
Seven year affairage.
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Originally Posted By: 5outof6aintbad


Reading that I see you don't expect to reconcile, I see venom, but I definitely don't see indifference to WxW. Indifference might indicate you'd moved on, that you were ready to start again.



I don't see "venom" in SDCWman's posts at all, but rather RIGHTEOUS ANGER...I think that is both expected and healthy...I also see in his posts someone that is very well read and studied in matters of adultery...Nothing wrong with that...

I suspect that you see "venom" because of what your signature line says:

Originally Posted By: 5outof6
Me 49 SAHD; W 41 SAHM; DS3, DS4.
Seven year affairage.


~emphasis mine

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Quote:
She is an AVOIDER. She never admitted anything, never told the truth even when discovered, never gave any explanation, and never even said "goodbye". She was like an adultering cockroach...she ran from the light and hid in the crevices immediately.

Even after her affair was known and exposed (and divorce was inevitable by her own choice), I asked her for one last cordial talk for "closure"...she agreed saying "that would be fine--we will talk soon". She never did and just ran away. Someday, I would like one 10-minute phone call with a simple acknowledgement of the truth and the pain she caused & a genuine expression of remorse for it. That's all I want from her anymore...I doubt I will ever get even that.


SDC...I don't know whether or not you ever got to depose your xww, but I've seen this particular resentment several times over my years here and it is one of the reasons I strongly encourage betrayed spouses to be sure to take a deposition of the wayward spouse no matter what.

I know it's expensive to some and they just want to end it. But a deposition allows you to ask any and all questions you want and they must be answered. It forever documents their words in writing and though the process continues thereafter....at least you'd have some closure forever codified.


I wonder if 5of6 is worried about his wife's first husband (if any) and whether he is still interested in his affairage wife...seeing that he bumped a thread with that particular comment that was lasted posted on in Feb.?

Don't worry 5o6, the divorced betrayed's always await news of the karma bus. They may ACT like they are indifferent (and hopefully turn it over to God as it will happen on His time anyway), but secretly they are just waiting to hear the news. Especially when kids are involved and they have to endure an enmeshed life in and around the adulterers.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Originally Posted By: MrsWondering
Originally Posted By: 5outof6aintbad


Reading that I see you don't expect to reconcile, I see venom, but I definitely don't see indifference to WxW. Indifference might indicate you'd moved on, that you were ready to start again.



I don't see "venom" in SDCWman's posts at all, but rather RIGHTEOUS ANGER...I think that is both expected and healthy...I also see in his posts someone that is very well read and studied in matters of adultery...Nothing wrong with that...

I suspect that you see "venom" because of what your signature line says:

Originally Posted By: 5outof6
Me 49 SAHD; W 41 SAHM; DS3, DS4.
Seven year affairage.


~emphasis mine

Mrs. W


Supressed guilt.

Want2Stay

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MrsW

I see venom because anger is venomous. Not because of my affairage (which BTW I am not proud of).

I agree with you Mr S's anger is well justified.

But my point wasn't whether the anger was right or wrong - just that it might have gone on a bit long.


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Seven year affairage.
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Sorry 5outof6, it read to me like "get over it already" and since Dr. Harley compares the pain of adultery to rape or the death of a child, I think saying that is pretty insensitive, kwim?

As far as SDCWman finding someone else goes, I don't think he's gonna have too many problems there...Not sure if you are aware or not, but he's an M.D....To many women that is the same as him having "HUSBAND" tattooed on his forehead. grin I think he will fair just fine when he is ready...

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Oh two other comments...

want2stay
Quote:
Supressed guilt.

No, it's not suppressed, I feel it and recognise it often.

Mr W
Quote:
I wonder if 5of6 is worried about his wife's first husband (if any)

No, I was married, W was single. I'm not proud of what I did.
Quote:
and whether he is still interested in his affairage wife...seeing that he bumped a thread with that particular comment that was lasted posted on in Feb.?

No, there's no BxH. I was intrigued by SDCWman's post on another thread and read his story. Having done that, I wondered if he might be experiencing a pathological grief reaction, and seeing that the thread was relatively recent, asked the question.

Quote:
Don't worry 5o6, the divorced betrayed's always await news of the karma bus. They may ACT like they are indifferent (and hopefully turn it over to God as it will happen on His time anyway), but secretly they are just waiting to hear the news.

I think this means you think my BxW is waiting for something bad to happen to me and my W, possibly mediated by God. Is that right? You might be right. Bad things happen a lot. I'm an atheist so I don't agree with you about 'His time'.

I don't think any of this post is much use to SDCWMan but I'd be happy to continue whatever-this-is on another thread, mods permitting.


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5outof6,

I'd be interested in a thread where you talked about why affairages are such a bad idea...Hearing what you've learned from your horrible choices...Whether or not you've genuinely apologized to your BexW...What your poor choices have done to your children, if any...Sort of a "cautionary tale" thread if you will...

What do you think?

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Yes I've been thinking about writing about that, and a few other things. Time permitting.

I agree with everything you said in your last post BTW.


Me 49 SAHD; W 41 SAHM; DS3, DS4.
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Originally Posted By: 5outof6aintbad
Yes I've been thinking about writing about that, and a few other things. Time permitting.

I agree with everything you said in your last post BTW.



You rock for coming on here and spreading your knowledge...Its good to see these things from all angles...DUDE

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Originally Posted By: 5outof6aintbad

Reading that I see you don't expect to reconcile, I see venom, but I definitely don't see indifference to WxW. Indifference might indicate you'd moved on, that you were ready to start again.

You grief seems to have gone on rather long, and I wondered if it might have tipped over into pathological grief.

Anyway, I see you're interested in someone. If you'll take some non-MB advice from someone whose marriage ended at a similar age, don't underrate yourself (I sense you might tend to do this, and the D won't have helped that) and choose carefully. I think women don't see aging in men the same way men regard aging in women. Your choices might be broader than you think.


I don't see it the same way you do, I don't think he has pathological grief. We all grieve differently and in our own timetables and it's understandable that he would just like to have her be straight with him for once...of course we know that's not likely to ever happen. At least he's moving on and seeing someone new, with time it will all fade into a lesser memory and he'll be okay...but she won't, she'll still have herself to contend with.


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Originally Posted By: 5outof6aintbad
MrsW

I see venom because anger is venomous. Not because of my affairage (which BTW I am not proud of).

I agree with you Mr S's anger is well justified.

But my point wasn't whether the anger was right or wrong - just that it might have gone on a bit long.


Anger is not always venomous. There is such a thing as righteous anger.

So you are telling me that if someone killed your entire family and you were angry at them for doing it, that you would be venomous?

Sorry, I simply don't agree. There is such a thing as righteous anger.

Actually anger itself is neither good, nor bad, it is simply the product of circumstances.

What is good or bad are the circumstances or what you do in response to your anger.

Anger can, but doesn't have to be venomous. It can also be a motivator, a catalyst for change, for growth and so forth.

But it's not a valid universal constant to say anger is venomous.

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SDCWman,

Seems your xWW and mine were cut from the same cloth. I got the same story, she'd tell me everything, answer all my questions after the divorce was over. She didn't want it used against her.

Never happened.

I guess I'm warped in my thinking that if what she was doing was such a good idea, so noble, thoughtful and the best for all involved that she would be happy to answer questions about it, is just whacked. <- tongue in cheek.

Perhaps a bit of a DJ.

However, what is not a DJ is that when you promise to do something and then don't do it, you are a liar.

My xWW is a liar, pure and simple. Only now, she really cannot lie to me anymore. She is only lying to herself.

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Originally Posted By: 5outof6aintbad
Reading that I see you don't expect to reconcile, I see venom, but I definitely don't see indifference to WxW. Indifference might indicate you'd moved on, that you were ready to start again.

You grief seems to have gone on rather long, and I wondered if it might have tipped over into pathological grief.

Anyway, I see you're interested in someone. If you'll take some non-MB advice from someone whose marriage ended at a similar age, don't underrate yourself (I sense you might tend to do this, and the D won't have helped that) and choose carefully. I think women don't see aging in men the same way men regard aging in women. Your choices might be broader than you think.


5of6,

Thank you for your concern and I appreciate your advice. I know that I am not alone, by a long shot, among BSs in having occaisional bouts of "venom", triggered "grief recall", and/or a fading desire to hear at least some measure of "closure" from their WS/xWS. I would hardly consider this pathological--in fact, I would be seriously concerned about any BS who didn't deal with these emotions and memories for at least a few years. I would wonder if they are just burying them, living in denial of their understandable grief/violation, or if they ever were truly lovingly committed to their WS/xWS in the first place.

I have read that it takes generally about 1 year for ever 4 years of togetherness to "be done with it". If accurate, that would mean approx. 3 years for me and am still a little shy of 2 years since the D became final. So, I cut myself some slack to still "vent" and hurt a bit from time to time. Fortunately, the time between "recalls" is growing farther and farther apart very rapidly now. You are much farther out from your past situation than I am from mine...

I can honestly say that I do not miss her anymore and I am soooooo glad I never see her anymore. It really is good to be completely out-of-contact with her and I am WAY better off for it (that took me some time to fully appreciate). [For a while, xWW was making noises about us "being friends" or "at least friendly" (as she put it) and after the few rare contacts we did have in '07-'08, she would strangely text/email things like "thank you for talking to me", "thank you for listening...", and "know that I am but a thought away..." I finally realized how unhealthy (and cake-eating-ish) this was for me and put a firm end to it all in 8/08. No going back!]

I am reminded of how my then-W acted and felt about XXX, a close male relative who abused her sexually as a child. She, for years while were dating/married had an "approach-and-withdraw", "love-hate" relationship with him. This went on for years (and even decades after the sad incidents took place) and she told me that she hoped every time she would "approach and open up" with him, that he would at least acknowledge and apologize for what he had done so many years ago. He never did, at least not while we were together, and she finally gave up on the prospect and basically cut him out of her life.

I have read a lot about what "true forgiveness" is and what it is not. TF is MUTUAL conciliation and it requires genuine and sincere input from BOTH parties. That I know may never happen. In its absence, the BS is left with "acceptance" which is simply becoming indifferent and detached from the offending person and no longer allowing them or their memories to be a source of pain. I am close, but not quite there yet. When I am, I am sure I will just apathetically delete any emails or voicemails that may possibly come along regarding xWW. :-)

As for your point about my current GF, believe me--I am in NO rush whatsoever and I will NOT SETTLE for anything that "isn't right" (as ALL waywards DO). I have no problem attracting quality female attention and have not been shy about walking away from several relationships I knew were not "serious, long-term potential". Thanks for the pat on back--I promise not 'under-rate' myself. I am a good-looking, loving, loyal, smart, and successful physician who is highly regarded and respected by many--being single for a while until "someone really special" comes along does not worry me one bit. I know I will be glad I did, rather than rushing into something out of need or desperation and being sorry later (again...the usual story of the WS). Thanks again, and I am so glad to hear that you are doing so well!


xWW:
Secret LTA w/ thrice married OM at her workplace; EA/PA starts ~ 2005-6
Files & completes D - 2007, OM/OMW#3 D - 2007, Affairage - immediately thereafter
Disappears in 2006 w/o even a goodbye to anyone, Never a paragraph of real truth ever spoken
Me/xBH:
M "for life", Suspicions (denied) & desperate Plan A latter-half '06
1st D-day 1/07, full truth D-day 7/08 (all via 3rd parties)
NC w/ xWW 8/08-date, better off w/o unrepentant vileness, betrayal, & rampant deceit in my life anymore
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