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Ok I get where your coming from. Unfortunately her "breakdown" is affecting her care of the children. If she goes away for a few weeks to get away from work (where the OM is) to defog a bit then I have no problem watching the children. I am not footing the bill for her. She is managing all that on her own. Right now it would probably be better off if I watched the kids anyways.

BTW I spoke to her last night and really laid into her. She hinted at some of the pain she caused me so I let her into my world right after discovery of the affair. I let her see what the world of a BS right after discovery is like. I let it all out and she took every bit of it. Of course she cried and apologized.

She said some things that make me wonder if she defogging. She is starting to see and feel the lies of the OM and said to me that she has lost everything.

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Originally Posted by catperson
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Your treatment lessnes the conseuqences, thus diluting any deterrent effect. It sets the sstage for her repeating this and. clearly impairs her ability to see the extent of the damage she has done.
ITA

If a kid steals candy and Dad says shame on you, don't do it again, will the kid steal again? Probably.

If Dad takes kid to store and makes kid apologize to the owner and work enough hours to pay for the candy, will the kid steal again? Probably not.
No cat, it's worse than that. Floridapad's situation would be like if the dad said, "shame on you, don't do that again. Next time, ask me, and I'll buy you the candy. Here, let's go back in the store, and I'll buy you some more."
Tough love time, FP.
NO "defogging" time. She defogs when she's with her family, not free to pursue more contact with the OM (even if it's only via email or skype or whatever).
She needs to make some choices BEFORE getting a chance to spend more time on the A.


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She has still not made a choice for the marriage yet. Not sure how to do tough love when she has not committed to he marriage or me yet. I sent her the letter a few days ago and told her the path to a restored marriage should start as soon as possible. But these are choices she still needs to make. Forcing a choice in the oment will get the likely result of I'm not ready. OK then what do I do. She is NC with OM because I can verify. She would not run off to Italy if she wanted the affair to continue and be with OM. Doesn't make sense. I ruly think she knows what the right thing to do is but can't quite move herself towards it yet.


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Okie Doke.
Try it your way.


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I know you must be depleted by this trauma. So, perhaps your attitude is understandable. Try this; envision a buddy coming to you with a similar story: "You now, FP, the wife has been cheating on me for some time now. Poor thing is confused, and has actually shed a few tears over this.
So, the kids and I decided she needs a trip to Italy. I mean, what the heck, she is stressed and needs to figure things out.
We used the same techniique two years ago, when she drained our joint account and the house went into foreclosure. A little trip to good old Spain, that time, seemed to clear her head."

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I don't really know what Florida can do to stop her from going to Italy to visit her sister. Hide her passport? Lock her up? She is a grown woman and if she wants to travel she probably will.

Personally, I wouldn't be to keen on the idea. I would be the one that wanted to get away and think for a while. I think a trip to New Zeland would be fun.



What we think or what we know or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do. ~ John Ruskin
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I think this whole trip thing triggers me. I agree, there is not much he can do to prevent it(but, how does she get out of her obligation to care for the kids, without his agreement?).
My first wife, a serial cheater, used to play this "I need a break " card all the time(still does).
Her "breaks" to "journal and try to sort things out", turned out to involve drinking and prowling for men.
In it s simplest terms, it just makes no sense that the person that brought all this about, not to mention the person that got to have all the fun and excitement, now gets a vaction to contemplate her navel. This is a serious imbalance of power and unjust as hell.
BSs do all types of doormatish things in the aftermath of this trauma. And, invariably, regardless of reonciliation or divorce, I think many regret the doormat behavior more than any other thing they did.

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I agree that it isn't fair. But again, what can he do? Is he to say I'm not going to watch the kids if you leave? I don't think he can legally do that.

Noting about this is fair.

Your first wife sounds like on cold person. It is probably a good thing that she is an ex.

I don't know what good it will do for Florida to try to force his wife to stay home. Perhaps he could persuade her not to go, and if he feels up to it have at it. You just can't hold someone that wants to flee. It just won't work.

I think his wife is being very selfish right now, but show me a WS that isn't selfish and I'll buy you a coffee.


What we think or what we know or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do. ~ John Ruskin
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I agree, there is not much he can do about it. I jast did not want him laboring under the impression that this is anything but a selfish, irresponsible action which shows she has no true remorse or appreciation for the extent of the damage she has done. She sounds like a very self centered person.

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OK..I did something you all may not approve of. I took a peak at my W's diary. I know invasion of privacy but I had to know what was going on. Based on her diary she is three weels in and still is deep withdrawal.

She talked about missing the "magical" feelings and how she never had them with me. She mentioned that going back to me would be existence to her. It said she loves me but never had those types of feelings for me.

It was tough reading but it did make me wonder about our marriage in the past. It also made me think like I was option B in her life. I cannot go back into a marriage where my W is always going to miss those magical feelings or exist in a marriage where she never felt she had those feelings for me.

As I said it was a DEEP affair. She wrote how the experience almost seemed spiritual. I know many WW say this but the point is these ARE the feelings she has.

She is NC in reality but in her mind and heart she is not NC. I told her they SHE needs to go NC and not be forced into it because the OM has made the choice to go back to his wife and go NC. She said she is NC (which I verified she is) but she is only that way because of him. SHE needs to be the one to chose to go NC. Perhaps write a letter? I tried to tell her perhaps writing a letter as to why you need to go NC with your mind, there are obviously many reasons, but one of them right now (in her mind) is certainly not about coming back to the marriage.

I have a timeline to Plan A her until MArch April and then I will probably file D papers because I will likely be done by then. When does the true NC clock start ticking. Once NC actually occurrs or once the individual has made the choice to go true NC?

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Did she write a NC letter? Definitely needs to.

Quote
wrote how the experience almost seemed spiritual
That's because it was SNEAKING.

SNEAKING something ALWAYS gives you a thrill, is exciting, makes you feel alive, like you're getting away with something 'normal, boring' people don't. An affair creates chemicals in the brain because of the deceit. It is no different from an addiction - the chemicals.

And everything she says is BECAUSE of those chemicals. She's coming down off a high. Nothing will ever be 'as good' as that high.

Pshaw. YOU are the one with the clear thinking, not her. Just humor it, and let her get farther away from that chemical high, and the fog will clear, and she'll see you standing on the other side - there all along, but she couldn't see you.

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Floridapad,

The diary is exactly what a good marriage should have. The difference is that the diary both good and bad is between each other.

Listen to catperson:-
You must understand that an affair brings about very different feelings to a normal relationship. The meetings are better, the cuddling is better and the sex is absolutely fantastic. Even if it is bad. The senses are hypersensitive. One way to kill that relationship is to let them marry each other.

THIS INFORMATION is for YOU. She will not nor cannot understand it. Await defogging before she can appreciate it. Somehow you must focus on meeting her emotional needs. Tough call. Stay away from her thinking.

I need to remind you again that the WW script is OLD.

Last edited by imagine; 11/15/09 12:15 PM.

But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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She is leaving wed and I have so much anger that she still grieves her lover more thean the pain she has caused so many around her including her children. I want to write her a letter about this to remind her that she hasn't even begun to feel the pain she has caused others. I wrote a nice soft letter a week ago that caused her to go to Italy but I feel she needs to hear about all the pain she caused for the sake of those "magical" hours she spent with him.

Good decision? or should I just stay away from it and let her see that for herself. I feel she will be away from this man (at school) for a few weeks and this might get her thinking more about the pain she caused others rather than her selfish grieving over the last of a scumbag. Please advise!!

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Lets re-evaluate.

You want your marriage? Does a school need these people to teach their children?

If you wish to protect OMW then your wife needs to be outed. I do not think it fair but it would give his family a break, for now.

Speak to the Harley's about this exposure. Her loss of the job would be a consequence of her action. Then exposure for her would be complete.



But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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Originally Posted by Floridapad
She is leaving wed and I have so much anger that she still grieves her lover more thean the pain she has caused so many around her including her children. I want to write her a letter about this to remind her that she hasn't even begun to feel the pain she has caused others. I wrote a nice soft letter a week ago that caused her to go to Italy but I feel she needs to hear about all the pain she caused for the sake of those "magical" hours she spent with him.

Good decision? or should I just stay away from it and let her see that for herself. I feel she will be away from this man (at school) for a few weeks and this might get her thinking more about the pain she caused others rather than her selfish grieving over the last of a scumbag. Please advise!!
Um...are you nuts?

Is feeling good more important than getting your wife back?

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Originally Posted by Floridapad
OK..I did something you all may not approve of. I took a peak at my W's diary. I know invasion of privacy but I had to know what was going on. Based on her diary she is three weels in and still is deep withdrawal.

She talked about missing the "magical" feelings and how she never had them with me. She mentioned that going back to me would be existence to her. It said she loves me but never had those types of feelings for me.

It was tough reading but it did make me wonder about our marriage in the past. It also made me think like I was option B in her life. I cannot go back into a marriage where my W is always going to miss those magical feelings or exist in a marriage where she never felt she had those feelings for me.

As I said it was a DEEP affair. She wrote how the experience almost seemed spiritual. I know many WW say this but the point is these ARE the feelings she has.

She is NC in reality but in her mind and heart she is not NC. I told her they SHE needs to go NC and not be forced into it because the OM has made the choice to go back to his wife and go NC. She said she is NC (which I verified she is) but she is only that way because of him. SHE needs to be the one to chose to go NC. Perhaps write a letter? I tried to tell her perhaps writing a letter as to why you need to go NC with your mind, there are obviously many reasons, but one of them right now (in her mind) is certainly not about coming back to the marriage.

I have a timeline to Plan A her until MArch April and then I will probably file D papers because I will likely be done by then. When does the true NC clock start ticking. Once NC actually occurrs or once the individual has made the choice to go true NC?


Your wife sounds like an idiot. I would hope that someday, when she goes back and reads her juvenile writings, she is mortified. Has she always been immature and selfish?

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As always Zelmo thank you for the constructive feedback. I can tell you really want to help a guy out and are all about helping people rebuild there marriage. Thank you. To answer your question though, she has always been an idealist romantic which yes probably makes her a bit unrealistic.

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That special "zing" of an affair is intoxicating to some. In fact, some people become serial adulterers, just because they have to constantly seek that rush of adrenaline they get from cheating.
Let's hope your wife someday realizes that building a life is more about the totality of your family, not a couple of heart-thumping moments.


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I think your wife would benefit from some education. But not from you! Family, clergy, whomever, get someone to turn her on to some good reading about what love, commitment, and lifelong relationships are all about. Open her eyes.

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I definately agree with you all on her getting some education, unfortunately she is being controlled by her feelings. I did write her a long letter (which I haven't given to her yet)some of it talking about NC and even copying some of the blogs. At the end I also told her this... Not sure how it sounds but it is what I beleive and a boundary I have set up for myself.

As for you and me. I know you are going through a lot, (it has only been 4 weeks of NC), and that is something that is even hard to envision so soon after an affair. But people do get through it and move forward and live happy lives. I do mean and believe everything I wrote in that letter I sent to you the other day. But It is so hard to attain when a person thinks they are going to settle by going back to the �old� marriage and that they can not be happy. I have absolutely no intention of going back to an �old� marriage if I thought it was not going to change and be happier and more fulfilling but it takes two people to make that happen. For some of the women that is the hardest choice because they feel they cannot have those feelings and connection they had with the other man in the affair. Well�. it was an affair. Those �magical� feelings and connection were in an affair, even if they were real and unique, and special. The pain you felt and are feeling now and the pain I felt and your children feel are also unique to us and very real. Many of the women actually said working on their marriage and restoring love with the husband is the key thing that made the pain go away and the feelings of the other man go away and brought back a true sense of happiness and love for their husband.
(WAW) Please don�t think I am manipulating you or trying to �talk� you back. There is NO WAY I will ever go back to the �old� marriage and there is NO WAY I would get back with someone if they thought they were settling for existence as you once said after discovery of the affair. If that�s how you ultimately think then I would be sad because we would part ways for good. If you think that you need those �feelings/connection� you had in an affair to be happy for life or feel that you must have those same feelings/connection from the affair at the beginning of a relationship then I truly do not want to compete with your memories, desires and longing for something you had in an affair. I do feel in marriage or any long term relationship true feelings of true love and a true connection, can be renewed greater than before and held forever. If you chose to move on and search for that intense connection and feeling with another man then I will wish you all the happiness. I truly will. Your happiness is important to the children�s happiness.
I (me myself and I) don�t want to go back to the life of �existence� as you say because I see now that things could be so much better, because I have made the changes inside that I need to make for me. But YOU have to have a little faith and make the choice to start a whole new marriage (if that�s what you chose), be yourself and not simply �think� you are settling, otherwise I do not want to be any part of that reconciliation and I would let go forever. If that is the case I�m sure you will fall in love again and find a life partner that truly loves and cares for you as much as you need. You can be alone, date, move on, fall in love with another man or chose to do whatever you chose to do. But I hope you see that choosing to fall in love with your husband again (you have before) and changing our lifestyle is something that can result in a happy marriage, be very special (icing on the cake) and result in a unified family, happy children, and a happy life. I want to do all the things we are missing out on and I�m sure you do as well but it must start with a choice. A choice to NC ( not just physical but emotional), a choice to change our lifestyle, a choice to truly focus on making our lives happy and have our marriage be truly loving and caring forever. People do it all the time.

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