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OurHouse, I think the best thing for couples who have some subjects which generate defensiveness and anger to do is first, set some ground rules for having a calm discussion. If the other party doesn't want to do that, then you do it on your side, and politely refuse to participate in the rhetorical tactics.
I think you should set aside some scheduled times to discuss things, instead of waiting for them to blow up. Set a time to discuss and pay bills, set a time to POJA everything else that is not a conflict, and then set aside time to discuss ONE SUBJECT that is an area of conflict for X minutes for the purpose of resolving something.
If you can't do any of that, then you need to discuss in front of a mediator, like a marriage counselor.
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We can't do any of that, which is one of the reasons I want him to go back to counseling with me (this time with someone who knows what he's doing--like Steve).
But really, one of the reasons we've not been successful is the alcohol issue.
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But really, one of the reasons we've not been successful is the alcohol issue. Interesting. What do you think are the other issues?
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Alice, I think you need to jump off the fence you're on. Jump far and run. The man cheats with prostitutes and won't bathe?
What would you tell me to do? Well I would ask you, if you were me, what kind of crack are you smoking!?  I get it, I do. He's a lying cheat, who uses, and is dirty. But as always it's much easier looking from outside of the box, than when you are in it. Some where between I get it, I get lost. Lost... I suppose that's why I keep reaching out. So smack me around, enough to knock me out of the box to see from the outside. I'm bleeding inside.
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Alice, I know that's one way that folks decide to make changes, by "hitting bottom," by watching things get so bad that it's obvious that you need to take action. But there are other ways to make changes, too, by setting goals, working to reach them, and using that momentum to create joyous lives for ourselves.
Instead of asking folks to knock you around, how about spending a little quiet time at some point today, and think about what you would like your life to look like? What brings meaning and joy to you? What fun things can you plan today, this week, that would get you closer to a life you enjoy?
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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I know there's more problems going on here than the whole "bath" issue, (I didn't read every post--so if there's abuse, or danger, than disregard this post) but here's a couple of suggestions.
1) Do not hug and kiss him when he gets home until he is all clean. Make it sweet and cute though--be charming (I'm not real good at stuff like this, but something like) "Oh I can't hug and kiss my handsome man until I recognize him. I don't want to get dirty. But after his shower (bath) I am going to give him a million hugs and kisses and show him just how much I missed him today. In fact, I've got the shower on (bath full) already--come with me my hard-working, strong, handsome man, and I'll talk to you while you're in there". Smile sweetly and go on in. (You can even help him take off his shoes if he will let you--BEFORE you get in the house, so you can keep them just inside the door, or wherever you want them to stay).
2) If he's sore when he gets home, why don't you get one of those portable whirlpool things--it's like a mat that you set in your tub that blows the water all around, and feels good... Add a little manly bath soap, and you're all set.
3) One night (perhaps the FIRST NIGHT you try it), you could find some activity for the kids, lock the bathroom door, and when he's done with the bath/shower, make it WORTH HIS WHILE (know what I mean? be pretty, SF, etc--words may not be his deal... SF may be!). On that night, maybe have a crock pot meal ready, so he can eat as soon as he gets out.
Just some ideas. Play with them, and make them your own. Again, if it's safe to do so...
Your job is to entice. :-)
Me 42
H 46
Married 12 years
Two children D9 and D4 !
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The respect thread got me thinking.
Guys:
What things do you notice when you get home from work??
Positive as well as negative
What would you like to see more of when you get home from work??
Gals:
What things do you notice about h when he gets home from work??
What things would you like to see when h gets home from work??
I know that some of the women are the ones working so use these questions for your situation. Reading the OP on this thread, I couldn't help but remember this list that purportedly traces its roots to a 1950s home economic textbook: How to Be a Good Wife
1. Have dinner ready. Plan ahead to have a delicious meal ready for him. This is a way of letting him know you have been thinking about him and his needs. Most men are hungry when they get home and they need a warm meal as part of their welcome.
2. Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so you'll be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your make-up; put a ribbon in your hair. He has just been with a lot of work-weary people.
3. Be a little gay and interesting for him. His boring day may need a lift and it is your duty to provide it.
4. During cooler months, prepare a fire for him to unwind by. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift too. After all, catering to his comfort will provide you with immense personal satisfaction.
5. Minimize all noise. Turn off the washer, dryer, and vacuum. Tell the children to be quiet.
6. Be happy to see him.
7. Show sincerity in your desire to please him.
8. Listen to him. You may have a dozen important things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first - remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours.
9. Don't complain if he's late for dinner or even if he stays out all night. Count this as minor compared to what he might have gone through at work.
10. Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or lie down in the bedroom. Always have a drink ready for him.
11. Arrange his pillow and take off his shoes. Speak in a low, pleasant voice.
12. Don't ask him questions about his actions or question his judgement or integrity. Remember, he is the master of the house and as such will always exercise his will with fairness and truthfulness. You have no right to question him.
13. A good wife always knows her place.
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GBH, I love that you have that already typed out and saved and ready to use, lol!
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GBH, thanks for posting that! I read on these forums so many attitudes that I thought we'd grown out of - women who think they can't speak up, who think they have to ignore their own needs and opinions in order to "make" their H happy, that they are responsible for whether their H is happy or not, etc. IMHO I'd like to promote a different view, that each person has a right to opinions, and to speak up, and to share in decisions, etc. POJA.
Alice, if you've tried asking nicely, and you've tried rewarding good behavior, I'd say it's time to step it up (if safe). I think ears calls it progressive boundaries. I think my H would call it nagging. Steve told me to do it anyway.
You need to be consistent in the message you send. Don't give the message that sometimes you're ok with him being nasty, and sometimes you're not. If he's like my H, then when you do complain, he'll just figure you're in a bad mood or hormonal or something, and if he ignores you for a couple of days you'll get over it.
Let him know that you aren't "getting over it". Let him know that it continues to bother you. Let him know that he has an unhappy wife, and let him know *how* unhappy.
And keep letting him know. Consistently.
me - 47  H - 39  married 2001 DS 8a  DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Hmnnnn, I don't know how you meant that post GBH. I am familiar with that list, and there is a lot I like about it for women who are SAHM.
In my case, I am extremely grateful that I have this opportunity to be a SAHM (even if at times, it is hard for me, having worked professionally for years--as well as earlier having been in the military, and been a FF/PM).
If staying at home, taking care of daughters, home, meals, laundry, etc is my JOB--why wouldn't it also include providing a soothing, relaxing environment for my husband to come home to?
I am in charge of this house. What does it say about me if my husband comes home and it is chaotic, unpleasant, dirty, and I am a mess? It says I am not doing my job very well.
My husband provides the money and security for our family. I take care of the home, and the family. I intend to do it well--and to show him he is getting his money's worth.
(Now, if a woman is also working outside the home, then there is a different kind of negotiation that needs to happen, and I understand that).
In my case, I want my husband to be thrilled that he is doing his job, just as I want to be thrilled that I get to do mine.
If I were being paid to do all the jobs that I do by the outside world (even though it's a lot of work), I would be out to impress.
I want to impress my husband every single day.
And now I've just motivated myself to keep working! Lol!
Me 42
H 46
Married 12 years
Two children D9 and D4 !
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We both work. Sometimes one gets home first, sometimes the other.
What I would like starts before I get home. I would like a phone call earlier in the day, or when he is on his way home, to discuss what to do for dinner. The way it is now, he does all the cooking (his choice) and the kids and I are getting really tired of some of his repertoire. And he doesn't care, he doesn't make an effort to make it appealing to the rest of us.
I would prefer something stuck in the oven or crockpot or microwave, and more time spent greeting me when he or I walk in, and interacting with the kids: helping with homework, playing with them, etc.
What I usually see (if he gets home first) is him cooking, and so he's too busy to do anything else, and dinner will be ready in 15 - 60 minutes with no regard to whether the rest of us have to do something at a certain time.
I often call him if I think I'll be home first, to ask about dinner. If I'm tired and the kids are hungry, I'll ask if he wants to meet at a restaurant.
Last week or so, when I called, he didn't want to talk - talked so low I couldn't hear him, and when I asked him to repeat, he said he'd talk to me when I got home. He was already home and hadn't called to ask if I wanted to do anything in particular for dinner. The kids were begging to go to the Chinese restaurant, and that's what I was wanting to ask him about, only to find out he was already home and hadn't bothered checking in with us the way I check in with him. Since he didn't even want to hear what I had to say, I took the kids to the restaurant without him.
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Telly, surely you don't agree with everything in numbers 8-13?
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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I don't think there is anything wrong with the list - if BOTH people are perfectly happy with it.
I would love to be a SAHM if I could afford it - as long as there is always an unspoken recognition that we are EQUALS. That is the role I choose to play, but if it ever becomes an unspoken assumption that the H has more 'right' to make decisions, spend money, etc., just because he is bringing it home - it should stop.
And a H should NEVER expect his wife to fill that role, without it being HER decision.
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8. Listen to him. You may have a dozen important things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first - remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours. 9. Don't complain if he's late for dinner or even if he stays out all night. Count this as minor compared to what he might have gone through at work. 10. Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or lie down in the bedroom. Always have a drink ready for him. 11. Arrange his pillow and take off his shoes. Speak in a low, pleasant voice. 12. Don't ask him questions about his actions or question his judgement or integrity. Remember, he is the master of the house and as such will always exercise his will with fairness and truthfulness. You have no right to question him.
13. A good wife always knows her place
Me 42
H 46
Married 12 years
Two children D9 and D4 !
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Telly, surely you don't agree with everything in numbers 8-13? LOL... My thoughts exactly. Those are a bit over the top, IMHO. I knew that list would raise some eyebrows. I generally have no problem with SAHMs, provided both partners have realistic expectations of each other's roles and responsibilities. I do have a problem with the SAHMs who don't make any effort to understand the working world and complain that H works too much; who expect their H's to bring home HUGE amounts of money regardless of the economy; and who then overspend and run up tons of debt. Living on a single income just isn't in the cards for H and myself -- neither of us went to Ivy League schools and neither is a CEO or upper level manager. We're both just plain old working stiffs. I just found it rather amusing that the OP kind of came forward with the assumption that most households have a Ward and June Cleaver environment. Only at the very end did the poster make a brief reference to the fact that some women actually work outside the home. How 21st century! To answer the OP's question, I generally get home and start dinner before H gets home. He nearly always calls before he leaves the office and asks if I need anything. If I left all the cooking to H, it would be meat, potatoes, and vegetable every night, and I'd get tired of that repertoire quickly. If we were to do things any differently, it would be for him to come home at a consistent time most nights. Somethimes he actually beats me home; mostly he does not; his arrival time can be anywhere in a two-hour window from 6 to 8 p.m. I've given up on trying to time everything perfectly (like the list says I should). I just start stuff when I get home and hopefully we eat together. If he is late and has not called, I will NOT wait for two hours when I'm hungry (sorry dear).
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There are women posting on this board right now who unintentionally disrespect their husbands by thinking they know better and their way is right. You called? lol I think the list has potential to be a great list, after some minor editing. To my knowledge, it has been circulating the internet (at least the feminist and chauvinistic parts of teh interwebs) for years and has never been credited to an actual source.
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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I went to a women's conference last week, and Suzie Ormon was speaking, and she said that 50% of all workers are now women. But then she asked us why. She said it's because all companies are under pressure to do more with less, spend less bottom line, and women will do the same work as men, for considerably less salary. So our men are being displaced, simply because we will settle for less money.
NPR was talking about all the car manufacturers who are opening factories in the south, how the whole industry is shifting to the south, simply because they are not union states. Like it or not, money will decide such things.
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I just found it rather amusing that the OP kind of came forward with the assumption that most households have a Ward and June Cleaver environment. Only at the very end did the poster make a brief reference to the fact that some women actually work outside the home. How 21st century! And that GBH would be an assumption on your part. I have also been a working mom outside of the home with a college degree. Wasn't meant in the way you took it I figured most people would understand and apply it to their situation whichever way their situation was. I didn't have much time the day I posted this so my apologies that it seemed so Ward and June Cleaver to you. Next time I will make it clearer so I don't come across in that way!!
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There are women posting on this board right now who unintentionally disrespect their husbands by thinking they know better and their way is right. You called? lol LOL! (Telly bursts out laughing and gives cwmi a big affectionate, playful hug.)
Me 42
H 46
Married 12 years
Two children D9 and D4 !
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I do have a problem with the SAHMs who don't make any effort to understand the working world and complain that H works too much; Man, my ears just WON'T STOP RINGING. But I know you can't be talking about me, since you added: who expect their H's to bring home HUGE amounts of money regardless of the economy; and who then overspend and run up tons of debt. *phew* GBH, why isn't a single income in the cards for you?
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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