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Ahhhhhhhh
the "yes but" game.
I don't play Gack.
Find another player.
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Your M is in trouble. And it's not just the lack of sex. From Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders:
Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.
Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.
Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.
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Sorry Pep, Did not mean to trivialize your suggestions by making it a game.
My bad
I have tried 2 of those things and gotten the exact response I posted. Variations on at least two others and gotten what I replied with.
Flowers
Cards
Back/Neck messages
Complementing on her looks
Fixing her dinner
Gifts
Like I said, all that is fine. But once she realizes we might be headed towards sex, any advance, of any kind is rejected.
She turns cold, becomes curt and turse.
Anything I do is wrong after that. No matter how kind I am, no matter what I do from then on....The night is ruined.
After about an hour of this I usually just remove myself from the situation by going to bed.
Last edited by Gack1; 12/10/09 02:37 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Your M is in trouble. And it's not just the lack of sex. From Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders:
Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.
Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.
Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful. Be more clear with me, wich one is it? Is it me?
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Faith: I'm definitely not trying to make excuses. An excuse is different from a reason. I was just looking for some reason as to why is W might be feeling the way that she does. 4 times in one year isn't normal, even with a new baby. Something is definitely going on here. Gack's W almost seems to have an aversion to sex.
I go away to nurse and bathe a baby and I miss so much.
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Be more clear with me, wich one is it?
Danger Zone! 
Show her that list. Freeloader. Renter. Buyer.
Discuss.
It's time for radical honesty.
Or, wait until after New Years ... You ought to intend to begin 2010 with a different set of rules.
Honesty is going to be painful - but until you're both honest with each other, the abyss between you grows wider.
I think it is OK to delay this conversation until after the birthdays and holidays ... but
she needs to know that your love for her is in DANGER and she must make efforts to keep you in love with her or you are headed the opposite way ...
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I predict SEX in 2010 within your marriage. Hey Pep--I didn't realize you had this talent to predict... would you concur that the likelihood of SEX in 2010 within my marriage is pretty dang low? Sorry for the thread jack, back to topic! 
Me:BW, FWH 1DD 1DS
Status: Chronicled in Dr. Suess's "The Zax"
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Gack,
You wrote,
The funniest, and most disturbing was when she tried to educate me on what men want. It seems I am weird for still wanting sex after marriage.
Yes it is true, I've known a number of men who were running around with affair partners who had no concern for marital sex, "tired honey just go to sleep". Thats perhaps not fair men like my BIL are perfectly content without affair partners, he goes to bawdy houses and spends his wifes money there.
For loyal men this is a problem however.
NJ
Last edited by newjersey; 12/10/09 03:10 PM.
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Gack's W almost seems to have an aversion to sex. It would seem so, but here is the part that will twist your brain. Last time we had SF was in October (after a 3 month dry spell) It's how it happened that�s odd. It's a weekday, I get up for work, she gets up at the same time because the baby woke up. She gets the baby to sleep and comes in the bathroom wile I am in the shower and brushes her teeth. This is a little odd because she normally goes back to sleep after getting the baby back to sleep in the morning. But nothing to really be concerned about. When I get out of the bathroom I check on her and she is back in bed, completely normal. (I use the hall bathroom to keep from waking/keeping her awake in the morning) I finish getting ready, then sneak in the bedroom to tell her by and give her a peck on the cheek (All this is a normal daily thing) When I do she pulls me into a kiss, tells me she loves me, kisses me again and tells me she wants a "Quickie" before I go to work. Now what the heck is up with that??? Of course I did not turn her down, but whats up with that total change!
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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she needs to know that your love for her is in DANGER and she must make efforts to keep you in love with her or you are headed the opposite way ...
I have told her this. Thats the talk that resulted in her telling me I shouldn't want SF I guess I'll try again. Thats not an easy talk, she takes everything as a criticisum and is very defensive. I must be very carefull about how I word things.
Last edited by Gack1; 12/10/09 03:31 PM.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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I don't think you ever answered this - would your W be willing to come on this site and talk?
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Now what the heck is up with that???
Of course I did not turn her down, but whats up with that total change! Can I slap and hug you.  When I read your posts, it sounds like you have your W pegged into a hole to act a certain way. What is up with wanting a quickie? Who cares as it could be a million things...just take advantage of it to create intimacy in hopes of making more intimacy...break down the walls. Since this was in Oct, did you say anything to her afterwards to lure her back into the M?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I don't think you ever answered this - would your W be willing to come on this site and talk? No, I have tried. Can I slap and hug you. Sory, I'm married  When I read your posts, it sounds like you have your W pegged into a hole to act a certain way. What is up with wanting a quickie? Who cares as it could be a million things...just take advantage of it to create intimacy in hopes of making more intimacy...break down the walls. Thats what I did. Since this was in Oct, did you say anything to her afterwards to lure her back into the M? Say anything? I'm not sure what you mean.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Sory, I'm married  Say anything?
I'm not sure what you mean. Even though it was a quickie, you still had chance to lure her in by telling her how much you enjoyed being with her, want more, love being close to her, etc. Given that she likely feels dettached from you and has ????? thoughts in her head about herself, it was an opportunity to reassure her and building intimacy. You don't want her walking away with the feeling that it was simply wham-bam-thank-you-maam. KWIM?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I've been thinking.
I have not really tried to get SF in a wile. Infact I have not really tried since the last time we had SF "the Quickie"
I have done the other stuff, kissing, gifts, flowers, huging, spooning, dinner out, etc, etc. I have just not tried recently to go "All the Way"
I gues I need to give it another try.
But honestly, I really don't want to.
She has preaty much conditioned me to not try.
I know last time I really tried I ended up on the back porch after she went to bed, balling my eyes out, and downing a sixpack.
Not fun
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Even though it was a quickie, you still had chance to lure her in by telling her how much you enjoyed being with her, want more, love being close to her, etc. Oh, I got ya. Yea I maid it clear I enoyed it and wanted more. You don't want her walking away with the feeling that it was simply wham-bam-thank-you-maam. KWIM? Gotcha.
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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You are getting a hug whether you like it or not so suck it up.  Gack, please do as Pep said and tell your W she is in danger of losing you. A marriage should not be a prison sentence. Either she will step up or she won't. Buying her flowers is not the answer. Do not be afraid to expect love and commitment.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Gack, please do as Pep said and tell your W she is in danger of losing you. I'll try and give attaining SF a few more shots over the next month. If nothing changes we will have that talk after the New-Year. Buying her flowers is not the answer. I new it was the flowers, thats just weak.  Time to step it up a notch  How about DIOMONDS??  I hear they are a girls best freind 
Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Save the money for the diamonds and use it towards a phone call to the Harleys. 
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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gack This is a reminder that recovery takes two to five years. Some WW's do the hysterical bonding thing, they been there, done that and then get the T shirt. Some WW's need at least a year before they can have SF with their BH. They don't go there, do nothing, don't want no shirt. This is just a reminder that if you can't do two to five years then it is hasta la vista baby time. Have you tried professional help. Suggest the Harley's. They have to be cheaper then paying for SF. 
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