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Originally Posted by black_raven
Again...very typical. I know that doesn't mean much when you are living in your own personal hell at the moment, but WWs' As typically end because they are dumped by OM.

Quoted for truth. I have no illusions that my FWW stopped pursuing the other man for good on her own... OM simply stopped responding to her entirely once I exposed to OM's wife. Once OM went a week without talking to FWW, some sunlight crept through the fog and FWW decided a no-contact letter was the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
p.s. not that it matters, but how do you know that the OM has a girlfriend and is "in love" with her? Is that a story conconcted by a dishonest wayward wife to throw you off her scent?


Another "Quoted for Truth" item. My at-that-time wayward wife repeatedly told me "It's over" and "there is no affair"... just moments after she got off the phone or IM or email with him.

In a wayward's mind, it can be "over" because the other person broke up with them months earlier, and so there's no affair because what they're doing now is just "friends with benefits". They just have sex. It's just physical now, not emotional.

Or it can be "over" because they stopped having sex months earlier, but still talk to each other and express their feelings for each other. And express that if their spouse and girlfriend weren't in the picture, they'd be with each other again. But it's "over" because now it's just emotional, not physical.

Every wayward will try to justify their decision to keep the other person in their life somehow. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Each time using some rationalization to make it OK in their mind.

But it's never OK in the mind of the betrayed spouse.

Originally Posted by jcb
I think my wife is more obsessed with him than vice versa.

BINGO. My FWW's relationship with the other man was an EA... but looking at the call logs, toward the end she was calling and writing him far more than he did her. She wants to try to keep him in her life because of how she feels when she's around him. It's the addict getting her fix. That's why there has to be no contact for life, because she'll NEVER really get over him while she works with him and sees him daily.

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Out of curiosity..is my wife insane or are these typical things a wayward does?

Waywards are insane while they're wayward. Their insane behavior toward the ones they love most is part and parcel of the wayward gig.

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The facebook thing seems so small, why not throw me a bone?

Because she's made it clear to you already she wants to hide the affair, and de-friending him on facebook would:
1. Arouse suspicions among her work friends,
2. Lead to embarrassing questions,
3. Eliminate one source of her regular "fix" (remember, you're dealing with an ADDICT!)

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Are her denials up to last night typical...what about the anger?

Totally normal.

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Telling me she can't keep doing this to the kids (the arguing and crying)

Oh, yeah, my wife really insisted -- and I believe at this point, would still insist, though that feels like it's changing, slowly -- that the post-D-Day "drama" was all my fault. I kept bringing these things up. I kept hounding her about the affair. I kept checking on what she's doing, and my snooping led to our fights.

In my mind, I had to keep reminding myself that these kinds of accusations are wayward fog-babble. Any rational person would agree that a spouse having an affair and refusing to stop it is reason enough for "drama".

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Is it possible she lied...

Given your wife's character and proven history of lying to you and others about the affair, what do you think?

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...to telling everyone, sending letters, etc.

Why not be honest?

"Until the day you commit to and follow through on no-contact-for-life with the other man, I have no choice but to assume you still have feelings for him and every time you see him it reduces our chances of saving this marriage. I will do whatever I must to save our marriage."

Or just use the last sentence there, which is what I did smile



Originally Posted by jcb
...are my chances better than 50/50 my marriage can be saved?

According to Dr. Harley, most marriages attempt to reconcile from an affair, but the way to do it is very, very narrow. If your wife does not stop seeing the other man, your chances of marital recovery are 0%.

Statistically, your chance of divorce is pretty much always 50/50 in the USA. I suspect if you magically eliminated all the known and unknown infidelity from that statistic, however, you'd find the VAST majority of divorces are due to infidelity but get blamed on other things.

Originally Posted by jcb
if I expose on Thursday, I won't be in town Friday-Sunday....is this a good idea?

I'd say a very bad idea. It's likely one of the reactions your WW will take is to try to force you out of the home or take the kids and move out herself, and if you are already out of town, it's much easier for her to do. Yet that is at war with my "expose everything ASAP" instinct.

EDIT to say: I just realized this is probably a big part of the reason she wants to keep her current employer. She has benefits, she has some stability, and when push comes to shove it gives her the "independence" playing card so that she has the financial ability to leave you and at least somewhat take care of herself.

If you helped her find a new job, it might still preserve her notion of "independence" while satisfying the fundamental requirement for recovery that she stop seeing the OM...

Might be good to get a session with the Harley's on how to deal with this. The opinion of a professional is truly worthwhile. If possible, I'd skip that business trip. Get "sick" or something.

Last edited by Barnboy; 01/06/10 11:06 AM. Reason: Added one possible reason why she wants to keep the job.

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One of the biggest mistakes a BS makes is taking cues from the words of a wayward.

My sister NotSure is a poster here. This fall her husband repeatedly told her he was "done" with the M and laughed in her face and chatted with OW on his Blackberry while she tried to talk to him about their M. She followed the advice of Mel and the board and did a full-blown exposure and it killed the affair dead. Once she was able to get the contact to end, she was able to deal with her real H, not foghead.

Follow through with the exposure advice you are getting, don't give up yet.


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Originally Posted by jcb
I have a business trip this weekend I cannot miss.
Yes you can!
And you should.

Do not leave town anytime soon unless WW and the kids are going with you.


Me 34
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Originally Posted by jcb
I have a business trip this weekend I cannot miss. Want to hear what the therapist says first..if I expose on Thursday, I won't be in town Friday-Sunday....is this a good idea?
I would expose when you get back. You need to be there to deal with everyone and everything. And I also would worry about her being all alone to move OM in or something as stupid.

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Dragging out an exposure is a massive strategic mistake. Can you get out of this business trip?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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"Hate to say this, but if they're still working together and she won't at least 'un-friend' him on FB, it's not over ."

Also you did not make it clear did WW confess to DD2?

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Can you get out of this business trip?
Yes, he can.


Me 34
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You must stop half muling every thing. Finish exposure. Expose at work.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
p.s. not that it matters, but how do you know that the OM has a girlfriend and is "in love" with her? Is that a story conconcted by a dishonest wayward wife to throw you off her scent?

How can you take the word of a liar?

You bet it matters! jcb, I was told this EXACT line of crud! WW later admitted how she thought it would put me more at ease (ie. off her scent), on at least stop the questions regarding OM.

It matters big-time. And Mel is dead-on. jcb, don't believe whatever Mrs. jcb is shoveling. It's better suited as fertilizer.....

TB




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jcb, if you haven't figured this out yet from the posts here, Waynerds are given a script when they go wayward. And they all follow it, to the letter.

And we have the script right here in our hot little hands. We are telling you, she is reading from a script.

But you can write the final act of this play. That's not scripted yet.

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wife did not confess to DD2, I told her, she denies it, wife said talking to her further was cruel and damaging (!)

Business trip would be very difficult to get out of at this point, but possible, I suppose.

One additional discovery...my wife has a prepaid cell phone (she was emailed a low balance warning) I will not able able to check call logs until she tops and it off and types in account # and password.....obviously I know what this could mean, but it IS possible it's for her mom..she has a prepaid from the same company and my wife is notorious for paying (me paying) her mom's bills....

Thinking about calling the Harley's for a consultation...any further thoughts?

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JCB... this is a marathon, not a sprint. The script will be repeated over and over again, and will change over and over again. Waywards lie. And they lie even when they say "why should I lie anymore? You already know everything."

Protect yourself. Protect your finances. Look for receipts and credit card statements and other damaging evidence. You might not need them now, but they may come in handy down the road.

And OM now has a GF. How convenient. My question -- "Til when?"

Your WW is addicted to the thrill of the affair. And it will go on for awhile. Hunker down and do your homework. Trust your instincts. Never give her the indication that what she's done/is doing is OK.


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Originally Posted by jcb
Business trip would be very difficult to get out of at this point, but possible, I suppose.
DO IT!
And continue exposure, NOW!!

Do not delay.

Originally Posted by jcb
my wife is notorious for paying (me paying) her mom's bills....
Don't you just love that.
We (Money I earn) help out our family (My in-laws) all the time too.
Somtimes I dont even know WE are helping them.

Last edited by Gack1; 01/06/10 11:48 AM.

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jcb, my suggestion would be to get out of this trip and i will tell you why. You have this affair on the run right now and if you let up, you will give them a chance to regroup. This is a horrible time for you to be gone. You have inflicted just enough damage to the affair to infuriate your wife but not enough to kill it off. In other words you just inflicted a flesh wound but infuriated the dragon. If you let up now, you will give her a chance to regroup. And you may even come home to changed locks, that is not uncommon.

Yes, I would check into counseling with the Harleys, too. But in the meantime, I would work on getting this affair exposed in the hopes that your wife will leave her job.

Can you call your mother in law to ask about the phone? What is the phone #? Can you call to see who has it?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Stop waiting.

Expose to her works HR
Expose to OM's girlfreind
Expose to anyone who WW respect and who may be able to put pressure on the affair.

Do it TODAY, January 6th, 2010
Do it NOW, 12:52PM EST


Me 34
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
jcb, my suggestion would be to get out of this trip and i will tell you why. You have this affair on the run right now and if you let up, you will give them a chance to regroup. This is a horrible time for you to be gone. You have inflicted just enough damage to the affair to infuriate your wife but not enough to kill it off. In other words you just inflicted a flesh wound but infuriated the dragon. If you let up now, you will give her a chance to regroup. And you may even come home to changed locks, that is not uncommon.

Yes, I would check into counseling with the Harleys, too. But in the meantime, I would work on getting this affair exposed in the hopes that your wife will leave her job.

Can you call your mother in law to ask about the phone? What is the phone #? Can you call to see who has it?

Look at it this way, jcb. If you got full-blown pneumonia and were in a hospital bed when you were supposed to head out on your trip, you wouldn't be going, now would you? Obviously not. Your marriage has pneumonia right now. You can't leave town, right?


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Can't call mother in law until exposure. Only have the last 4 of the cell phone # until she pays for more time. would have to call all available 3 digit prefixes.

When I expose to management at her employer, will they fire one or both of them? I thought of threatening to picket out front that her work supports adultery or something like that? Is that nuts?



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Trip has been postponed.....

Would like to wait to speak to therapist about his knowledge before exposure....

Last edited by jcb; 01/06/10 12:01 PM. Reason: addl
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Originally Posted by jcb
Trip has been postponed.....

Would like to wait to speak to therapist about his knowledge before exposure....

rant2 Not your own therapist, right?


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by jcb
Can't call mother in law until exposure. Only have the last 4 of the cell phone # until she pays for more time. would have to call all available 3 digit prefixes.
How is the phone paid?
I am sure you can find the phone number for you MIL if you really try.

Originally Posted by jcb
When I expose to management at her employer, will they fire one or both of them?
One/Both/Neither, all possible

Originally Posted by jcb
I thought of threatening to picket out front that her work supports adultery or something like that? Is that nuts?
Uh.....
I would NOT do that.


[/quote]


Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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