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winter, you are going to have to accept some basic facts: your H is a wayward. Waywards are selfish people who feel entitled to rewrite the rules in order to get whatever they want. He rewrote the rules and had an A. He and the OW engaged in selfish, destructive behavior that was a direct assault on you. That whole business of YOU hurting HER? Piffle. Don't let him make you feel guilty or wrong for exposing a cancer on your M. That woman is a low-life who deserves no sympathy or respect for the harm that she has inflicted upon you.

You are probably going to hear a lot of things about your WH's A that will be very painful. I know it hurts to realize that he wanted someone else. That's a knife in any BS's heart. As time goes by these revelations about your WH's emotions will be less painful for you. You will realize that what he was chasing wasn't the OW, but the emotional needs she was filling for him. He'll realize that, too. You know how? Because he will go through withdrawal and will come out of his fog and see this beautiful woman he married, (who is Plan A'ing to beat the band). You will be filling those needs.

You know, in the old days they stoned adulterous women. I'm not so sure we've evolved since nowadays it's not considered unusual to cover up and dismiss affairs. frown


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted By: winter1939
I told him it was true, that I hate her and I want her dead,
Seems normal to me.

But hey, I'm in the anger stage. grin


Originally Posted By: winter1939
I just called him at work and he didnt answer, I talked to my brother and he told me H is very quiet, looks depressed and is not talking to anybody.

Now what?
Call your brother and tell him WHY your H is so depressed. Tell him you exposed his POS OW and that he is all hurt because OW, who helped destroy your marriage, may be a little upset.

A good brother may snatch a not in his but, and tell him to have a coke and a smile and get over it!

Originally Posted By: winter1939
He says the affair was done already
This is a flat out lie. If he had no hopes of ever seeing OW again, he would not care.


Me 34
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Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
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Double post

Last edited by Gack1; 02/05/10 09:49 AM.

Me 34
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Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
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Winter,

It's simple really. WW and OW chose behavoir, with it come the consequences of that behavoir.

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My H called me, he said he wants to talk to our son and explain to him why he will not be at home for a while. He said we need time apart because we both have boundaries issues and don't respect each other feelings. He will be staying with his brother until he can find a place for him. He wants to leave work earlier and come home to talk to my son and say he'll be away for a while because of work.

He's still making me feel guilty about the FB thing. I told him I don't want to hear anything about the OW again, and he said I keep insisting that our problems were OW's fault and that I "just don't understand". He said that since he confessed his A, he's being doing everything I ask him and the only thing he asked me was to leave OW alone and I could not do that. He said it broke his heart to lie to me for 5 years so he finally decided he would be honest and tell me about the A even though there was no chance of me finding out, but he feels it was a mistake because I never appreciated that he was sorry for what he did and wanted to work in our M. And then he said again, "it is not about the OW, your just don't understand that".

Anyway, he's coming home soon, he wants to say goodbye to our son and get some more clothes. He told me he will be back Sunday to spend time with our son and that he hopes I don't make trouble for him to see him.

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Originally Posted By: winter1939
My H called me, he said he wants to talk to our son and explain to him why he will not be at home for a while. He said we need time apart because we both have boundaries issues and don't respect each other feelings. He will be staying with his brother until he can find a place for him. He wants to leave work earlier and come home to talk to my son and say he'll be away for a while because of work.


winter, he wants to be allowed to LIE and SPIN to your son about the source of the trouble in your marriage. He is FURIOUS that you have cut off his path back to the OW. As he has lied to you and spun the reason for his adultery, he wants to do the same to your child. That is not acceptable. If your child is over the age of 4, you should set him down NOW and explain to him that his dad has been having an adulterous affair for 5 years and is leaving because he is angry that you have exposed the affair. Explain to your child WHY adultery is immoral and give him moral guidance.

Don't allow your husband to whitewash his crime and blame his bad behavior on you, winter. He is trying to shift the blame for his affair ON YOU. DO NOT ALLOW HIM TO DO THIS.

Here is what Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says about that:

Quote:
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Did you do what I advised?


Me 34
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Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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Originally Posted By: winter1939
. And then he said again, "it is not about the OW, your just don't understand that".




winter, please try to understand that your husband is very foggy and is still high on the fumes of his affair. That is evidenced by foggy, insane comments like the above. For him to imagine the source of your troubles is NOT an adulterous affair is insane. There is nothing that could have been happening in the marriage that would be as destructive.

My point in saying this is so that you DO NOT take what he says seriously. He is no more rational than a falling down drunk who just got cut off at the bar. That is why he is angry. I very much believe he was still pursuing the OW while giving lip service to his marriage in case he couldn't get through to the OW. You have ruined that.

Your husband's fury about your exposure of the OW tells me that you have hit a major ARTERY of the affair. The angrier they are about exposure, the more effective the exposure. I suspect this may be the much needed death blow to the affair, winter.

As your H withdraws from her and accepts that there is really no hope, he will calm down and come back. This is a good thing, winter, not a bad thing.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: Gack1
Did you do what I advised?

Talk to my brother?

Yes, I did. But it didn't change anything on my H's behaviour. He doesn't sound mad or angry or even upset, he sounds sad and "disappointed" with me...

I know, I know...

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane

winter, he wants to be allowed to LIE and SPIN to your son about the source of the trouble in your marriage. He is FURIOUS that you have cut off his path back to the OW. As he has lied to you and spun the reason for his adultery, he wants to do the same to your child. That is not acceptable. If your child is over the age of 4, you should set him down NOW and explain to him that his dad has been having an adulterous affair for 5 years and is leaving because he is angry that you have exposed the affair. Explain to your child WHY adultery is immoral and give him moral guidance.

Don't allow your husband to whitewash his crime and blame his bad behavior on you, winter. He is trying to shift the blame for his affair ON YOU. DO NOT ALLOW HIM TO DO THIS.


My son is almost 6 years old... I feel horrible that I have to put him through this. I don't know if I can do it.

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Originally Posted By: winter1939



My son is almost 6 years old... I feel horrible that I have to put him through this. I don't know if I can do it.


It is horrible that your husband has done this to his family. You should not allow your husband to LIE to that child and whitewash his crime.

Dont' do it, winter. Your H has been allowed to LIE to cover up for his crimes for way too long. HONESTY is the solution to adultery, not more lies and not more BLAMESHIFTING.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Dr. Harley on telling the children:

Quote:
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.



Quote:
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

Quote:
2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

Quote:
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
winter, please try to understand that your husband is very foggy and is still high on the fumes of his affair. That is evidenced by foggy, insane comments like the above. For him to imagine the source of your troubles is NOT an adulterous affair is insane. There is nothing that could have been happening in the marriage that would be as destructive.

My point in saying this is so that you DO NOT take what he says seriously. He is no more rational than a falling down drunk who just got cut off at the bar. That is why he is angry. I very much believe he was still pursuing the OW while giving lip service to his marriage in case he couldn't get through to the OW. You have ruined that.

Your husband's fury about your exposure of the OW tells me that you have hit a major ARTERY of the affair. The angrier they are about exposure, the more effective the exposure. I suspect this may be the much needed death blow to the affair, winter.

As your H withdraws from her and accepts that there is really no hope, he will calm down and come back. This is a good thing, winter, not a bad thing.


He thinks that his inability to deal with the issues on our M were the problem. The A was the consequence of his wrong behaviour. The OW has nothing to do with us and our M.

How long will he be in fog?
And what does it mean "he'll accept there's no hope anymore"? Will he "settle" for me?

I'm going crazy, I HATE my life right now!

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He thinks he can walk all over you. Once he moves out, hit him with legal separation and get him on the hook for child support and alimony. He needs to feel some consequences from his actions, and he needs to learn to respect you. Stand up for yourself.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Originally Posted By: jmwc95
He thinks he can walk all over you. Once he moves out, hit him with legal separation and get him on the hook for child support and alimony. He needs to feel some consequences from his actions, and he needs to learn to respect you. Stand up for yourself.


I don't want to divorce. If I wanted that, I would have done when he told me about the A. I want to recover my M and to have a family together. I will not allow him to treat me badly or "walk all over me", but I think we still have a chance to make it work.

But if I'm wrong and this kind of behaviour shows that there is no chance for our M to recover, please let me know, because my brain is NOT working anymore and I just can't understand anything!

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Originally Posted By: winter1939
[

He thinks that his inability to deal with the issues on our M were the problem. The A was the consequence of his wrong behaviour. The OW has nothing to do with us and our M.


The reason you were unable to work on the marriage is because HE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR. He is trying to spin the story and blame it on you.

Quote:
How long will he be in fog?


for as long as it takes him to withdraw from the OW and give up his hopes of a resumption. You are aiding in bursting the fantasy that has bolstered his FOG. That is all that is happening here, winter. He is furious that you are interfering with his FANTASY.

Quote:
And what does it mean "he'll accept there's no hope anymore"? Will he "settle" for me?


"no hope" for the future of the affair.

winter, you have to stop reacting to his fogbabble. If you react with guilt and FEAR you will hand him ammunition to use against you. You have to STOP THIS. You need to buck up and be firm here.

You have done nothing WRONG. It is wrong to LIE. It is wrong to CHEAT. It is not wrong to expose those crimes. You are not obliged to keep OW's secret for her. That is ridiculous.

Don't fight with him, don't try to reason with him, just tell him "I am sorry you are so upset, but I will do what I have to do to protect this family from your affair. The OW's friends and family have a right to know what she has done, too."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: winter1939

But if I'm wrong and this kind of behaviour shows that there is no chance for our M to recover, please let me know, because my brain is NOT working anymore and I just can't understand anything!


No, this behavior DOES NOT indicate at all that there is no chance for recovery. This behavior indicates your H is MAD becuase you interfered with his affair.

Your interference makes REAL RECOVERY much more possible.

winter, affairees always get mad about exposure. EVERYONE OF THEM DO!! But it is not the end of the marriage, IT IS THE START OF RECOVERY.

Originally Posted By: Dr Willard Harley
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Winter set your boundries and then stay behind the fence,Let him come to you. He is trying to punish you!

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ok, winter, are you ready to stop freaking out and get back to work here? If you calm down, lets discuss next steps, because getting excited over your fogged out husbands temper tantrum is a waste of time that will only divert you from your mission.

You are trying to negotiate with a 2 year old who is on the floor having a tantrum. A waste of time...


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I called my H and told him I want to tell the truth to our son but I'm not ready to do it today, so if he wanted to come and explain what he did he could come, but I would not allow more lies in our house. If he didn't want to talk to him, he could not come today and I would explain to our son during the weekend.

He said he'll think about it and call me later.

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