Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 634
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 634
Originally Posted By: Pepperband

Do you think this is part of a power struggle?
A permanent "got'cha" ?

At worst, I think it is an intentional way to avoid recovery.
It certainly shows some of the inner dynamics. think


Interesting idea. Not sure it is part of a power struggle. Perhaps it's a way to self-sabotage a chance at recovery?

I think it has alot more to do with a BS that has their own self esteem issues and wants the world to think that their life is perfect when it's really not. I also think it is due to the embarrasment and humiliation that a BS feels more then anything. I know I felt alot of that in the beginning but once I told loved ones I felt strangely more free and empowered. Weird how that works.

Good topic for discussion though.


Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
I've been keeping up with this thread and debated on whether or not to post.

I hope that my unwillingness to talk about it to other people isnt sabotaging our chances at recovery. We had our first counseling session with Steve Harley today. We have another tomorrow. I am going to ask him about this tomorrow and will post his response.

All I can say is this: I have respect for everyone's opinion on MB forum...you have all gone through this terrible experience and have lived to tell about it.

But for me, I can't go through any more right now. It takes every ounce of energy I have to play with my little ones, keep up my business face and run my company, and try like hell not to LB WH when every time I look at him I want to scream.

I feel like I'm letting the MB community down by not taking the bull by the horns and doing things the right way. But I just can't tell my story, not yet.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 634
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 634
HBH,

You aren't letting any of us down. Ultimately, you have to decide what is right for you. It's good that you are following along and thinking about this stuff. There is no reason that you have to act upon it immediately. Just consider what is being said. You've got a lot on your plate right now. Hang in there!

Mindshare

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,499
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,499
Originally Posted By: hurt_but_hopeful


But for me, I can't go through any more right now. It takes every ounce of energy I have to play with my little ones, keep up my business face and run my company, and try like hell not to LB WH when every time I look at him I want to scream


BHB,

My thinking is that it takes all of you BECAUSE you are keeping this secret. It is an infection that is pulsating through your body and effects every aspect of your being.

I cannot imagine going through this and NOT having my closest friends/confidants/family surrounding me for support. I would have NEVER made it through it without them. I would have literally died a slow and angonizing death.

That being said.....on Pep's original question

I only required H to apologize to me and my children. My thought process at the time was getting the affair to end......as far as confessing, well, I beat him to the punch with exposure.....

He has apologized to his mother and uncle as well, but not to my family. This has been a hinderance of sorts in recovery though.

As far as apologizing to OWH, I left that up to him. I do know that OWH'S was not interested in any apology as neither was I. And in fact, when she DID email me with an apology, the pain inflicted because of it, especially the circumstance surrounding this, was awful. It did not alter my feeling towards her at all and only caused my dislike to grow. As that 9th step states.....apologize and make amends UNLESS doing so causes harm.....

not2fun

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted By: hurt_but_hopeful
I've been keeping up with this thread and debated on whether or not to post.

I hope that my unwillingness to talk about it to other people isnt sabotaging our chances at recovery. We had our first counseling session with Steve Harley today. We have another tomorrow. I am going to ask him about this tomorrow and will post his response.

All I can say is this: I have respect for everyone's opinion on MB forum...you have all gone through this terrible experience and have lived to tell about it.

But for me, I can't go through any more right now. It takes every ounce of energy I have to play with my little ones, keep up my business face and run my company, and try like hell not to LB WH when every time I look at him I want to scream.

I feel like I'm letting the MB community down by not taking the bull by the horns and doing things the right way. But I just can't tell my story, not yet.


You do what you need to do.
I'm working some of my own ideas out.
I pose questions to the forum as a method to check if my ideas are too rigid.

I view confession/apology as a brightness shone upon a darkness.
I view confession/apology as a healing decision.
And, that is true for my own transgressions, not just my husbands.
But, maybe I am just peculiar in this way.

What I am doing with this thread is for me.
To help me think something through.

You do what is best for you. That's all we can ask.



Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Quote:
We had our first counseling session with Steve Harley today. We have another tomorrow. I am going to ask him about this tomorrow and will post his response.


It will probably become an important POJA decision.
That's my guess.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15
Pep, my H wasn't interested in me confessing to anyone else. We don't have children, parents, or close friends so we're kind of an odd duck case. We just didn't really have anyone. I would have been willing, though.

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 692
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 692
Pep, I can see what you mean by a power struggle.

A BS is grasping for whatever control they can get, and having this to hold over WS looks like a very powerful weapon. Unfortunately they are mostly hurting themselves with it.

Being a BS is humiliating at first, and I can understand not wanting everybody to know. You feel like a failure and you're sure that everybody is going to think you were a horrible spouse. That's not true though, and any friends/family that believe the worst of the BS aren't really friends/family. The WS is the one that should be humiliated and ashamed.

I also believe that this is a huge step for growth in a WS. They need this step.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
Quote:
I feel like I'm letting the MB community down by not taking the bull by the horns and doing things the right way. But I just can't tell my story, not yet.


You aren't letting anyone down and the "right" way isn't the same for all but you may still end up in the right place. You sound a lot like me...you poor woman stickout.

Exposing for support was a relief for me. Keeping it together for work and the children was tough...I could not have gotten through it without the support of my friends and family. Give it some thought. smile


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted By: drgnfly

Being a BS is humiliating at first, and I can understand not wanting everybody to know.


I agree with this drgnfly - I too understand the humiliation felt by the BS.

The part that is confusing to me is that if they divorce, her plans are to expose to friends/family. What? I thought that would be humiliating?

Letting the family/friends know as a step towards healing = humiliation

Letting the family/friends know if there is a divorce = humiliation

I don't get it.




Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 634
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 634
This part is actually pretty easy to understand Pep.

For many BS's, admitting you have a cheating spouse and that you are staying with them is the part that is most humiliating. It's un-nerving to think that your family and friends will look at you like a doormat for keeping a cheater around.

It's easy to say that you are divorcing a cheating spouse because it is no longer humiliation, it is justification. Then the BS feels the world is looking at them as being in control and having the strength to kick the cheater to the curb.

We here at MB know this is backwardarse logic but most BS's do not.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
It is the shame of taking a cheating spouse back.
Is this what you are saying?
Mercy and forgiveness as a source of shame and humiliation.

.... Interesting.

I'm going to Costo. Talk more later.....
I pray I don't spend more than $200
rotflmao
(It could happen)


Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
Originally Posted By: hurt_but_hopeful

But for me, I can't go through any more right now. It takes every ounce of energy I have to play with my little ones, keep up my business face and run my company, and try like hell not to LB WH when every time I look at him I want to scream.




HBH,

This is WHY you need to stop pretending and lying to close friends and family.

Your own lies and facades are sucking more emotional energy from you and you have none to spare.

There is relief in truth.


Happily married to HerPapaBear



Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
Don't get a cart. If you can't carry it, you can't buy it. Happy shopping!


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,583
Pep,

It boils down to.....


P R I D E


For those of us whose WS's left us for OW, or those of us who exposed and fought a long battle with the affair, we didn't have the luxury (or curse) of holding onto our pride.

It was stripped away and we stood "naked" for the world to see.

And we speculated that we were being judged and found...

lacking.

Truth is, when we stop pretending,

we found there were certain people that were THERE for us,

that carried us when we could not stand,

that loved us through our sorrow and grief.

Being real with people doesn't make us weak. In fact, I think it's the strong that are willing to be real. It's the weak that want to hide behind the facade.


Happily married to HerPapaBear



Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,093
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,093
Pep,

You ask what's happening in the BS brain who asks the WS not to apologize or publicly acknowledge the affair.

In my case, this is exactly what has happened. There are only three people who know of my H's most recent affair - me, my H, and his OW. I strongly suspect OW's H also knows, but I am not positive - I suspect because he and I worked together for three years post-affair, the way OW's H dealt with me after the affair, and also because of the nature of OW's marriage (they have an open marriage - and have for many years).

The fact that I did not disclose to OWH is not MB "policy", certainly; however, given the nature of the open marriage issue, my H and I fully discussed this and mutually agreed that this particular affair was unlikely to tip their marriage one way or the other. Indeed, they continue with their practice to this day, and my H and I have independent verification of this lifestyle and their continued nuclear bombing of other marriages. Our devastation would have made no difference to these people. They do not care.

So you have asked what goes on in the mind of the BS who doesn't want the public apology, etc?

In my own case, it all hinged on the conditions within my personal family. I take care of (at the time) four elderly parents. It is now three, as one has died of complications related to traumatic brain injury. One has terminal cancer, one with heart conditions and battles a recurrent type of cancer, and one with mental illness and alcoholism.

My H and I knew we wanted to attempt to recover the marriage by the two-day mark.

Then, within a few weeks, he was diagnosed with cancer, and we were definitely fighting THAT battle together.

We decided that the affair was a back-burner issue in some ways, and the cancer was the priority.

And to place the health needs of those elderly parents ahead of what we realized would be a tough - but temporary - uphill climb within our marriage seemed the right decision for us.

We had to make some difficult decisions because the situation we were in was dire. Do we make the last months of a dying man who was confused and anxious even more confusing? Do we include the details of an affair into the life of a mentally ill and alcoholic woman who finds drama and sadness yet another reason to drink and spiral out of control? We had our hands full, and there was no way for us to add to that pile, given the nature of what we were facing in that arena.

I think sometimes it isn't what is INternal to the BS, but what factors weigh on the EXternal side of the marriage that feeds the decision. At least, in our case, this had the most emphasis for us.

I'd like to say that at times, I do wish that I could have had the support of my parents and in-laws. Their experience would have been great for me, especially my MIL, who managed to save her marriage even after she and my FIL were divorced for 8 years! Unfortunately, she isn't in any condition to do that for me. I take care of her instead.

Sometimes, even in the face of our own devastation, we have to be the pillars to support the rest of the family - in spite of our desire to ask them to support us, and our need for them to do so.

SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,621
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,621
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
What I required. In no particular order.

1. Confess and apologize to OW's husband. In person. In public. Me by his side.
2. Confess and apologize to my parents.
3. Confess to our priest.


The purpose was not humiliation. The purpose was H gaining my respect. And gaining self respect. And owning his own relationships with others.

Has any other BS made this a requirement to recovery? I place a high value on honesty. If my H required me to lie to my friends and family in order to recover our M ... he could go find a different place to enjoy secrecy. Not with me.


Very Step Eight. Just right for a WS who is also an addict. But is it right for all WS?

For the record I had the above plus two more in my Plan B Letter:

4. Confess to her family.
5. Confess to all at work who knew them during the VLTA.

I accepted a letter of apology sent registered to OMs wife since she would not meet in person. She is the OW from his first M and I did not particularly care what she got or did not get but as you note at the time it seemed a necessary benefit for my W to do it.

Interesting aside though I required all this after the fist D-Day of the VLTA too. Then they took further underground for another five years.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Thanks all.
That's what is great about this forum.
Differing points of view.
I really do appreciate it.

Click to reveal..
Under $100.00 hurray

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 212
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 212
I tried to "protect" my WS for a few months after D-Day. I didn't want to expose. She didn't have any intention to confess though. But I see myself sort of discouraging her to confess to her family at that time. I thought that the humiliation would have been a deal breaker for her.

I hindsight, as you probably suspect, that was a HUGE mistake. The window for exposure/confession closed on me. Now there isn't much point of exposing or having her confess at this moment. So that has created a lot of resentment in my part and I think that it has contributed to a sense of entitlement in her.

My FWW has not shown any intention really apologize to anybody including me. She confessed to her sisters and a friend but I am not even sure what she told them and I suspect she put a spin to it.

I am not going to explicitly ask her for an apology or confession at this point. That's because I feel that getting a forced apology/confession is not going to help me to heal. I am looking for a genuine apology/confession to come from her. Unfortunately it may never happen. I am on the fence on whether my M will R without my FWW being remorseful.

--ElCamino72

Last edited by ElCamino72; 02/15/10 06:31 PM.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,305
I did not require my h to confess or apologize to anyone except me and the kids as we were the ones that were affected by the A.

The FOW was single so no OWH to consider, my parents and his parents are deceased so no parents to consider. The extended family really had no part in it so no confessions or apologies to them either.

I would have been pi$$ed off if he apologized to the FOW.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
2 members (anchorwatch, 1 invisible), 31 guests, and 64 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
CVT, Olivia 80, Brad344, Bobbyboy341, Steve123
71,697 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,536
Posts2,322,686
Members71,698
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5