Does anyone else here have advice on how to get Hubby in a positive Marriage building mode?

SSO

Matter of fact I do.

02

How long has it been since your read COMPLETELY through all of Dr. Harley's stuff her including the infidelity links? Another question might be have you ever read all the way through all of the links and newsletters?

I just reviewed the material today = not much posting.

Every time I go through Dr. Harley's stuff, I find something new for me to absorb. And lo, I saw something that would be useful to you. But without the context of a review of the rest of the material, it won't make sense in isolation.

So. . . 02, wanna read some stuff?

Larry

I want to read some more stuff, but sometimes I don't know where to startt because there is so much....what did you see that would be useful to me?


I want to post about something, but I think an Admin, or mod might delete it...how can I post something that has to do with sexual things?

I am going to try to post this mostly because it's eating at me and may be someone can help me put into words how to explain intimacy to my Hubby.

This is what happened...(since Hubby's been on meds it make SF difficult, so I was happy when he asked me to do um something to him) Well, he pretty much won't touch me, won't do anything but lay there, and I am getting upset by the minute. Afterwards I just roll over, I can't even look at him. He's asking what wrong (in not a nice way) and saying things like I don't normally act this way (when I do what I did to him). Well, I'm sorry that I wanted SF, and then he accuses me of only thinking about sex...well, how can I not in that situation!!!!!! All he did when he said that was make me feel USED! AGAIN! Yes, I was feeling a little used during what I was doing...From past experiences I have a hard time refusing anything.

When he said all I think about is sex, I was trying to tell him that I wanted SF that comes from a deep intimate relationship with him, but he just doesn't get it. I really just think he doesn't get me and doesn't want to(he also thinks I don't get him). A part of me thinks he'd be relieved if I would just leave already. I wish we had a guest room..I'd go sleep in there! What makes me so mad is that he always "just lays there" and when he does choose to do something to me it's always rough and he doesn't like it when I say "stop" "ouch" "that hurts" If he's doing something to me isn't it supposed to be on my terms and not his? Why do I have to try and like something? Why do I have to take what I can get? How come I am not good enough for anybody???????????

Keep reading whatever you can find that helps you W02.

I would take sex out of the equation right now untill you guys both realize that intimacy,trust,communication and feeling safe with each other is more important. If you get to that place and hold each other sex will just happen anyways IMO.

Be careful W02 with your newfound understanding that the shape of your marriage is not all your fault. It doesn't entitle you or excuse acting out of anger and frustration. You still for your own sake and his can insist it get better and nobody should have the attitude of "Marriage at any cost" That would be shooting yourself in the foot. Think about it... Its going to take time, work, a respect for the vows and each other to work this out untill its ballanced and healthy

My thinking is that he is in a rut. He is getting all he can from you while it lasts. He has no clue how to either go where you want him to go or to a place where he wants to go but doesn't know how. If it were a car, he would eagerly read everything he can get his hands on or ask experts.

This is a subject for MC. And he will do that, right? This is his way of showing that he wants to go someplace but it doesn't feel right to focus on relationships, because they are not objects he can comprehend.

Men have a tendency to look for women to lead them in the relationship merry-go-round. Women buy most of the sold relationship books which thus are written for women. But men are not always easily led. So there you go. And women get frustrated. Again, so there you go. I don't have a magic wand, I really don't.

I started at the beginning and am plowing through. It is all necessary now and for your future. Don't fight the learning because it is too much, embrace it because it is all good.

Larry

I just feel like screaming, ranting, and crying all at once, but yet I sit here with all the apperances of calm cool and collected....OK, issue for the MC was what I posted earlier and mostly I was ranting and venting before I exploded.

What should I be reading now, any suggestions?

You don't have to read it all at once. Just start with the basic concepts (link at the top). After you get through those, go through the Q&A columns. Then the articles. Start a program of education for yourself. Every little bit you get will increase the amount of information you have about how to make your situation better.

wife_02...not sure if you are a religious person, but I have this to offer...Holy Scripture is VERY clear as to what will happen when a spouse withholds SF from the other...Satan WILL tempt...

1 Corinthians 7:5 (I believe) states and I'm paraphrasing since I don't have the verse in front of me, that couples should never deprive one another (EN's), UNLESS it's agreed upon by both spouses, that you may give yourself to fasting and prayer and do so ONLY for a short time and come together (SF) again after, so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self control....

So unless one has rock solid superman morals, withholding EN's for a long period of time has devastating effects...still this doesn't give you the green light to cheat, BUT your hubby has to come to terms with his lack of responsibilities as your husband, lead to your temptation and in your weakness, you failed...He should be protecting you from temptation by meeting and even exceeding your EN's and you should be doing the same for him as his wife.

Through counseling your husband needs to understand where he failed you...yes, he's hurt and you feel guilty, but he put you in this position...IF he were meeting your top EN's more than likely, you wouldn't be here...therefore, he needs to understand that these are the effects of his withholding from you.

Obviously you want to work this out...you've confessed and repented, now the healing has to begin and if he's going to continue to withhold and talk down to you because of what you did, and hold that over your head as a punishment, then you need to make a decision...you could very well cheat again, regardless of how "grown-up" you feel now...

So personally, as I'm going through the same thing as you...my wife has been withholding from me and I did have an opportunity to cheat...the only thing that saved me was she lived 5 hours away and I decided to cut all ties and focus on my marriage for 1 year (we're in counseling) after that, if things haven't improved...I'll have to make a decision...either I stay and have my EN's needs neglected and hope I don't fall into temptation and cheat or I walk...

If I were you, I'd pour on meeting his EN's and through therapy, hopefully he'll realize what got the two of you to this point and he'll begin to meet your EN's...for you it could be a year, two years or five, but IF he doesn't start meeting your EN's...eventually you'll get lonely and will find yourself tempted to cheat again...

Good luck

I just feel like screaming, ranting, and crying all at once, but yet I sit here with all the apperances of calm cool and collected....OK, issue for the MC was what I posted earlier and mostly I was ranting and venting before I exploded.

Partly you feel this way because:

1. You are focusing totally on your marriage, sex, and your husband and not balancing your life with other things.

2. You don't know how to communicate to him what you need in bed.

3. You are afraid of rejection by him in bed...and do not know how to risk rejection to make your sex life better

I have been thru this. I had to learn to communicate openly all about my sexual needs to my husband. I had to risk rejection to get our sex life back on track. I had to forgo intercourse and focus on other things, ways he can please me and I can please him.

If you are upset, get a counselor to talk about how to communicate properly and gently but firmly your needs in the bedroom. Once you master this very important communication, which none of us were born knowing how to do....then you will not feel so helpless.

You can teach your husband to please you in bed without IC if you communicate it the right way and the right time to him.

It will take months to do this and learn to do this. Do you have the time and patience to teach him how to please you in bed?

One quick idea is to switch off. Monday night you please him. Tuesday nite he pleases you only, you do not please him on the nites he pleases you.

That way he gets used to pleasing ONLY you sometimes.

There is a lot more, a counselor could help you.

I'll admit it, I get red faced when trying to tell him what I want, but it usually gets out. With that said, he doesn't want to do what I ask. He thinks I don't know what I want and does what he seems to think I want. He makes me feel selfish and that my needs don't matter and that I am wrong for thinking of sex in the first place. It feels like there is an attitude of "I am a women, therefore I should not want sex". It just seems with my experiences with men is that they are all selfish when it comes to sex or what they truly want. I want something deep and meaningful for us both and I don't mean just sex...I want to follow all of the things outlined here at MB. I feel like my need isn't "just sex". I want intimacy and I'm not sure if he does. He doesn't think anything is wrong. I don't see how we are going to move past everything to a deeper relationship if he refuses to see that he may have been doing something wrong. There was something wrong before I cheated. All he can say is I'm not happy with him....this is going to take a long time

Yes well you aren't so after you get it through his head its not HIM but how he ACTS maybe he will see that he has a choice.

Yes it will take a long time. It also will take consistency and probably will feel like it will never get better sometimes. I like Larrys take also that you both might need IC independantly so you can visiulize independantly what you want out of life and your marriage partner so you can bring something to the table with MC.

It sucks when both of you are foggy and feel victimized and expect the other to change. Wouldn't it be great if you both started asking what bothers you and you both responded?

wife_02...your hubby and my wife are two peas in a pod...I've always been the initiator in regard to my 2 biggest EN's...SF and Affection...recently my wife, a stay-at-home mom for 9 years started taking online classes and working 3 days a week...I guess she thought that our sex life could be put on a shelf...she started turning away from my bids for intimacy...at first it was random, then it became the norm.

once I started bringing the lack of sex in our marriage to her attention, I guess she felt offended...SF has never been her EN, yet I could always trust that when I initiated SF (once a week...maybe in a blue moon, twice a week) she would respond positively...sure there were times she "didn't feel like it", but she always made up for it later in the week.

Now, since I've brought this to her attention, I get the "we're not 16 anymore"..."you're an adult, get over it"...she's referred to herself as a "prostitute" or "a piece of meat"...

Her view of SF in a marriage is that it's all physical for me...just a "release" and I can get that from a "prostitute".

My wife, like your hubby, fails to realize the important role SF plays in a marriage...SF creates a bond, allowing closeness and sexual intimacy and SF separates the many relationships we have in our lives...withholding SF is a dangerous way to express anger...your relationship may appear sincere and loving, but withholding SF places your husband in control...therefore, you are the one responsible for the maintaining of a sexual bond. In not assuming responsibility for nurturing a sexual bond, your hubby is washing his hands from any marital problems, b/c he is not involved.

I know how you feel...I'm busting my [censored] meeting all my wife's EN's every day...I wake up every morning thinking what I can do today to show my wife I love and care for her! But as soon as I think everything is going good and I initiate SF, it's flat out rejection...

With that type of treatment I'm giving, you'd think I pulled a Tiger Woods on my wife or something!

The feeling you are left with is rejection, unattractiveness and unlovable...there is NO other devastating feeling of shame than your spouse no longer desiring you...

i also noticed your "remote control" argument in a previous post...that's a classic sign of "browbeating"...my wife is the master of it...she knows how to draw me into arguing and then make it out like I'm the one who started the argument...then guess what...she has an excuse to say..."no" to SF...and I'm left apologizing for who knows what!

Is it going to take time...yes, but eventually he's going to have to sh*t or get off the toilet and get on board with the healing process or you're going to wake-up one morning and realize there's more to life than a dead end marriage...

My wife and I are in counseling and I've told my counselor just that...as long as I'm putting forth the effort and am motivated, I'm in...but if she continues to drag her feet and makes no attempt to work on our relationship, I'll have no choice but to walk and when I decide to walk...its over...the stress and loneliness in a marriage is hard on you mentally and physically...

wife_02,

What I see in your posts is that you are complaining about his attitude toward your sexual desires

in exactly the way I think that he might complain about YOUR attitude toward his.


What I see in your posts is a focus on SF is a TAKER'S attitude.


Do you see that?


Intimacy cannot possibly be reached if you are in a taker's mood.


You are ASKING him for things.

You cannot possibly GIVE a gift with empty hands. Intimacy is a gift you receive when you GIVE IT AWAY.

I will repeat that, because you must understand that concept:

Intimacy is a gift you receive when you give it away.


You absolutely cannot ask for it, because it can't happen that way. It begins when you STOP asking for things.

It begins when you put the taker away.

SB

Can someone give me the link to the giver and taker thing? I can't find it.

Without trust and total honesty you will have a hard time building intimacy W02.

When you fall in love again you will desire to please each other instead of looking for what you want out of sex. Its not a performance and I think H is looking at it like that.

More later

I agree with SSO on the idea of performance. You need to start with intimacy. Take SEX out of this!

So when Hubby is asking for SF from me, should I refuse? Or lovingly comply?....Still needing the link for giver and taker.

but was intimacy ever apart of this relationship to begin with...wife_02 stated that his withdrawal started shortly after they said "I do"...it was a problem for 2 years...him not meeting her EN's, prior to her stepping out on him...

and I will bet that his previous marriages ending in his ex's cheating was in regard to him not meeting their EN's as well...

MB's has a great concept...I agree with everything and would like to hope that a simple concept as this would work, but wife_02's hubby has some serious deep rooted issues that MB's will not work on...he needs serious therapy or he'll end up divorced again...once he discovers what it is keeping him from wanting the desire to meet his wife's EN's (other than his own selfish reasons)...MB's will be great in restoring their intimacy...

just my .02...

Try this for giver and taker
Biblically you should comply or you could develop the Policy of Joint Agreement...IF he's desiring SF, he should make an attempt to meet your EN's in the process...foreplay...lots of touching and kissing and cuddling...maybe a massage...I don't think I would lay down and open my legs for him IF he's not going to make any attempt to meet your EN's...