JL-

I do understand your point, and I'll consider it. I have thought about just putting it up for sale to see what the reaction is; maybe I'll give it a try.

Mulan-

I appreciate your viewpoint on the email. I have not been meeting any kind of emotional need for her since she moved out, except perhaps the security of a backup arrangement. That is one of the risks of plan B. In some sense plan B is tolerating the affair. When I choose to no longer tolerate it, time for plan D.

As for medical decisions - I actually did consider that some time ago, and gave my parents medical power of attorney. I also modified my will and trust. The POSOM is in my life enough as it is and I do everything I can to keep him from getting any more of it.

MA -

I don't believe the surgery has been done. I have my suspicions about the transgender claim anyway. The POSOM is the textbook definition of a psychopath. I suspect he pulls that trick out of the bag whenever he needs to manipulate his intended conquest to keep her around longer. About 10 months ago she said she would remain his/her friend. Don't know their current status on this subject, and I really don't need or care to know.

I think she is terrified of having to own the things she's done, and suffer the pain, guilt and remorse when she loses either me or POSOM due to her action. She's waiting for one of us to make the move, because she is paralyzed.

Plan B isn't tolerating the affair.

It's removing yourself so the affair is all they have. The idea is to let them realize the mistake they are making.

KR -

I agree with what you say, but for me that is more like a by-product. The primary reason for plan B is to preserve my sanity!

I said plan B was "in a sense" tolerating. Divorce clearly shows not tolerating. In that light, saying that Plan B isn't tolerating really depends on your definition of toleration.

You are seeing you WW and she is still doing the OM. Tells you she won't stop doing the OM. And you still want to see WW

socially.

Time to plan B. Total darkness.

WW is playing you. Dangles enough to keep you hanging on, hoping. Stringing you along.

How do you spell doormat: pianoman55

What do you see in the dictionary when you look for "doormat"?
A picture of pianoman55.

*no post*

TR-

I've been in plan B for a while. I do not want to see WW socially - or for any other reason while she is still with POSOM. Her recent behavior seemed to me to show that she wanted to come back. I came out of plan B for a couple days to show her I was able to entertain the idea.

Obviously she went back to POSOM, for whatever reason that I really don't care about. I've told her in no uncertain terms that I will not have anything to do with her again until she has left POSOM and will commit to the terms of my plan B letter. No more chances to test the waters.

Her response (below) after my message that I wouldn't have anything to do with her until she left POSOM and committed to my terms. Actually it's the second response; the first was that she was filing, and I should figure out what I want to keep!

Sounds like she wants to "date" both of us without having to explain why she's not at "home" on any given evening. Still rewriting history to justify it all. Interesting that she admits that all is not well with POSOM.




Well, I'm glad you're enjoying yourself. I am too. I was pretty much giving it six months. It's been seven. Maybe we should set a deadline. That way this indecision doesn't go on endlessly. You say you don't want to divorce. I can't imagine that that will always be your opinion. I still think we could sit down and talk about how we would go about making a dissolution of our marriage. Maybe in the process of doing so we would discover that we don't want to do it.

I've been reading a book about controlled separation. It is useful in that the separated partners get to have some cooling off time. Date others, even. Sometimes couples re-unite and say that it was a healthy thing to be apart. Sometimes not.

Right now I feel like I'm "away" from home --like going to college felt. Like I was living somewhere else, but there was always my home to go home to. I enjoyed working in the yard, sitting in the shed talking to you like nothing happened. But I wasn't compelled to bring all my stuff home and move back in. It's all too complicated. If I was in a place by myself, it might be less difficult. Or I might just decide that I like it that way.

Sometimes I feel like you're just right for me and then I remember all the years when you had no interest in me and now it just makes me so angry. Like we were just going through the motions. Keeping busy in order to cover up the fact that we didn't have a clue about each other, really.

Sometimes I feel like (OM) is just right for me. And sometimes he does things that make me want to pack my stuff and leave and not look back.

That's where me living alone might be a nice idea. Just do my own thing for a while. I could be happy with that.

*link* probably this book

PM,

PUtting the house up for sale might trigger what you want or it will trigger her filing for divorce. She admits she likes it on the fence but like to sit more "squarely" on the fence by seeing you some and "normalizing" the situation.

It continues to be your call. To me her message seems to be saying "I like it on the fence".

JL

And, there is *this site*



Nowhere, does it recommend dating other people or continuing the adultery.

JL- I'm talking to an agent this evening. I think just having the For Sale sign on the lawn will cause some movement - we'll see.

PB - I've read a lot of that stuff. The "controlled separation" on it's surface seems to have some merit if the terms are kept. The "Should I Stay or Go" kind of plan is worthless IMO. The bottom line is that a relationship cannot be fixed if there is a 3rd person involved.

I totally agree.

In my opinion I tend not to agree. (I am not a specialist) but It's just perplexing to me after reading many a story that someone who willingly, diliberatly, consciously decided to have an affair can be compared to a recovering alcoholic.

I would dare to say that I would never compare it to a mental condition. There are some people I know who are having affairs that are fully rational and understand exactly what they are doing. They even lay blame on themselves for the affair and can debate the related issues with me in conversation. They understand the problems that may surface in the affair but do not stop because of emotional issues. (Their emotional issues are not mental defects)

My alcoholic friend refuses to believe he is an alcoholic and literally harms everything he touches. He would never contemplate getting help unless someone hit him over the head with a brick. his alcohol issues are no where near an emotional issue but literally a accelerant to his mental conditions of depression and anxiety.

Now I have been in contact with a Narcissistic individual who used every woman he could get his hands on including his wife and destroyed every social contact he had including his job. But that was more his Narcissistic personality disorder and depression that caused him to treat people the way he did.

I think a lot of men/women who get involved in these affairs know exactly what they are doing and make direct decisions based on their situation. There is no excuse...no fault...no pill. Its all emotion and rational thought.

"Controlled separation"?? As in, you stay legally married but you can each date other people on the side?

Uh - that's exactly what she's trying to do now. But this time, she wants you to officially give your approval so you won't bug her about it anymore.

The goal of cheating is always, always, always to have the advantages of legal marriage PLUS the fun of dating other people, too.

Your WW has got some big brass ones to actually expect you to openly agree to this. Crikey, most of them lie and sneak around - but not her!

Are you really that afraid of her?

Please fergodsakes tell us you will not consider this. The device has not yet been invented that can measure the amount of disrespect she is heaping upon you.

This whole thing sounds like a cheater's dream - because everyone knows a WS can always be counted on to keep to an agreement, tell the truth and do the right thing!

Does anyone think that a WS would NOT be running hog-wild to continue their adultery with old OR new partners if their BS was enough of a frightened doormat to agree so something like this??

Some FAQs from the controlled separation website (concerning affairs):

Q. Many therapists will not do marriage counseling when there is an affair going on. Why would you not ask them to give this up for the separation as you do gossip and other shenanigans?

A. The affair is a loaded issue. There are so many complicated facets to it. Coaches and therapists take the position that behavior such as the affair is not something that they can morally mandate a client to do or not do. This is an integrity issue for the adulterer� something this individual needs to come to terms with in his/her own time.

Q. What are the reasons for a controlled separation when there is an ongoing affair and no contract to stop seeing the third party during the separation contract? Why would the rejectee agree to such a contract?

A. Despite an affair, some couples will agree to a CS� because there is sufficient ambivalence on the part of the betrayer. When the betrayer has one foot out the door, then the wheels are greased in preparation for divorce. Some rejectees will agree to a CS� contract mostly because they love their partner and still cling to the hope of upholding their marriage vows. The rejectee is willing to wait it out, praying their spouse will change his/her mind.

P.S. I have saved many, many marriages this way!

Riiiigggghhhtttt.... just wait it out and do nothing. Hm-hm. That works.

So, the goal of a "controlled separation" seems to be for the BS to back down, say nothing, be a complete and total doormat so as not to upset the cheater and maybe, maybe, if you're really lucky and don't make a fuss, the cheater will appreciate this so much that they'll come back to lucky you.

And how lovely to refer to the Betrayed Spouse as "the rejectee". Does this site get kickbacks from Ashley Madison?

Exactly...

Well, there is a plethora of stupid advice available on the web.
And this "controlled separation" is in the stupid category.

Look at the so-called "benefits".


1. Puts a stop to the fighting.
Without giving the couple TOOLS to negotiate without fighting.


2. Gives each spouse the space needed to cool off.
Space to cool off and grow apart!

3. Keeps the spouses from acting on impulse.
Like hell it does !

4. Spouses get to experiment with living alone and having more freedom.
And, this is supposed to increase the chances of marriage recovery, how?

5. A chance to grow and assess your role in the marital problems.
More like a chance to scapegoat your role, and assign blame onto your spouse.

6.A true test of how you feel about your partner once you are not seeing them regularly.
WTH?

7. If the couple does not reconcile it gives them a chance to prepare of an amicable divorce.
Amicable ? Yeah, myauntMinnie'sazz.

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!

As I mentioned before, I think she is suggesting this so she doesn't have to answer to anyone. As long as she is living with him, the POSOM obviously would know when she is "cheating" by seeing me. I'm sure she gets grief for that.

I will not "date" her regardless of where she lives. I am not going to be involved with her in any way, shape or form unless she agrees to my Plan B terms.