I thought you were teasing as well.....I was all at the edit this morning......

Not

Here's the link to that thread. He has recently remarried, very happily. His daughter is 16 and now lives with her mom, but not until well after the creepy OM was out of the picture. He has no regret for what he did to protect his child.

tl

Pablo58 protects his daughter from a predator

*edit*

Pardon the thread jack.

No insult given or taken.

DDD:

You are presuming that the DN was told that her MOTHER had an affair. Its a very real possibilty that DN was told something along the lines of: that your jealous of thier relationship and always lie about it, you make up stories, and have since you were two years old, and the "whole family" doesn't want you around because of this, etc.

Talk to your DD some more. Your DD is armed with the truth, but she is about to go into discussion with somebody who quite possibly is armed with FOG! It could be a very difficult conversation for your DD.

Waywards have the uncanny ability to twist every little drop of truth into something else contrary to the truth.

I do hope the DN got the real truth, or at least enough so that she understands what the outlines are.

LG

I could not believe all of the secrets that came out after a college drinking night with two of my cousins.

Several affairs, a cousin who had a 'different' dad than the one everyone thought, one dad that worked out of state for a few years was in prison, miscarriages that were abortions, medical problems that were rehab/jail stays. Even a cousin that I vaguely remembered, another remembered as her dads girlfriend!

It all comes out (imagine if we'd found a few more cousins!) We each had different pieces of the puzzle, it was fascinating as we each told our version of the same story. It was also like a bad movie...

None of us confronted our parents. 20 year old lies, none of us saw any reason. They were still as sick as their old secrets. The truth only confirmed how we each already felt... They are sick, sick, sick, sick.

I'll never forget that day.

Yesterday's developments:

DD14 and DS12 were picked up by DNiece17 and DNephew15, and all of them went out to lunch and to the mall. DD told me that while in a store, DNiece privately told DD what she was told.

I first heard about it in a text exchange with DD when I told her about our dinner plans and invited all four to join us. Here's the exchange:

Me: DD, not sure (cousins) want to be around dad right now or whether their parents even want them to be, but they are welcome to join us for dinner.

DD: Okay i think we'll all go.

Me: K, just make they tell their parents who all is going.

DD: She's fine around dad. She thinks its soooo weird that i don't want be around (aunt) since it was ''only one kiss 10 years ago and (aunt) has learned from her mistakes''

Me: K, well I guess that's the lie they've chosen to tell. How does that make you feel?

DD: It just makes me feel really really bad she has to live in that lie. She knows something else is going on... She wants you to talk to her about it when she's an adult

Me: I understand and agree. I feel badly too. For now just talk about other things and u and I will talk later about what u discussed. So sorry for all ur anxiety from her ?s lst nt and today and the tough spot ur in. Love you!!!!!!!

DD: K im not going to say anything else right now .. okay love you too!! Ill see you soon.

---

I was so pissed at this moment that I fired off an email to my S right away - I know, I know ... I'm suppose to have no contact, but I did not want to send it to my BIL:

Our kids will not be coached to enable lies. You have put them in a horribly unfair and stressful spot by continuing to lie. If you don't want the truth spoken, keep your kids away from ours. Fair warning.

I heard back from BIL:

W showed me this email and I thought it better that I respond. W & I have openly and truthfully discussed the affair with both (daughter and son). Not an easy thing to do, as you know.

We feel we have told them what they need to know and there were no lies told. I am very uncomfortable with your comments and would like a clarification of what you are referring to. (Your daughter) has indicated to (my daughter) that she doesn't know the whole truth but will in time. Since we have told them everything that would be appropriate for them to know, I would like to know what (your daughter) might be referring to?

We were glad that the kids could spend some time together and also that they could see you and H. We would very much like that same opportunity.

---

I do know they used the word affair with their kids; this was verified by DD. Maybe they didn't tell their kids it was only one kiss but instead that is what their children chose to believe. I don't know. My daughter doesn't know.

What I do know is that H and I explained to our kids last night that at this point, it's up to their cousins to ask the questions they want answers to and that they will ask those questions at the time that is right for THEM. I explained the concept of denial, that it is a natural defense mechanism we all use to protect ourselves, and that they might not be ready to digest all the details right now and may be asking more questions at a later time. DD said her cousins said they were going to ask their parents more questions last night.

I am not sure it is a very good idea for you or your H to be around your sister's kids. It just doesn't sound like it would be conducive to your healing. I am sure that you care about them, and it's great that you want to facilitate a relationship between cousins, but when it comes to you two, it just seems unwise.

To clarify: I was referring specifically to inviting them to dinner.

You are probably right, but not because of my healing (I was 100% fine with it at dinner) but rather for protection of S's kids while they're still minors. We plan to discuss this with Steve Harley.

My kids do not desire to be around their aunt at this point, but even if they did, I would not want them to be. As adults, I can still guide them, but they will be free to make their own choices.

Delta, I'm just getting caught up on this thread, and I sincerely wish I had gotten on sooner. Schoolbus' recommendations are stellar--however, we've all missed one very important fact in this, and it has become more evident:

YOUR SISTER AND YOUR BROTHER IN LAW ARE BOTH WAYWARD AT THE MOMENT.


Your BIL is just as complicit in covering up this affair as his wife. If this were an adult we were talking about, would we trust a STILL-WAYWARD affair partner to inform a family member?

CARDINAL RULE: WAYWARDS LIE.

IMO, this has gone far enough, and your H needs to come clean with his niece and nephew. If it creates a permanent rift, so be it. Your niece and nephew will NEVER forgive you if--no WHEN--they find out that they were supportive of your H, thinking he had stolen a kiss, when instead he was banging your sister.

They've spun this so you're the crazy one. STOP THE MADNESS. Your H needs to accept the consequences of his actions. There is no LAW that prevents you or your husband from telling the niece and nephew the truth.

HE NEEDS TO DO IT NOW, BEFORE THE SPIN DOCTORS REALLY GET GOING.

I'm considering sending the following to BIL today ... what do you think:

What I need to know is this: do your kids know that it was a months-long sexual affair?

Because if they do not, (your kids) might be quite upset with (our kids) and me someday if they were to find out it was something more.

Out of protection and care for your kids, I think it's grossly unfair to them to be around H if they believe he only kissed their mother when the truth is he was having sex with their mother. It's not right for us to put them in the position of being unwittingly supportive/accepting of him. I wouldn't blame them for being very angry with us all someday for that. We love them and don't want them to be hurt anymore than they have to be.

DD came back in tears last night ... she's so upset that she's lying by omission to her cousins, her friends when - in her opinion - they're acting like what happened was no biggie. We explained that it is not her burden to carry, and it's up to (your kids) to ask the questions they want answers to at the time of their choosing, but she still feels so, so torn.

Our kids loved being with (your kids) yesterday and look very forward to spending time with them again today.

Now, if your kids know the full facts and they still choose to be in H's presence in the future, H feels it would be right for him to apologize to them in person. Either way, they deserve an apology from him.

Our kids, especially DD, are not at all at that place and may never be. And no, it's not in any way because of the vindictive, malicious, controlling, selfish, evil person you said I was who has, according to you, tainted my children with lies. (I'm still waiting on an apology from you for all of that.)

Perhaps it's partly because of how they've seen the effects it's had on their mother to have to deal with this horrid affair PLUS be demonized when she - along with you and our kids - are the victims. DD began to feel the same way yesterday ... that (your son) (maybe your daughter, too, I don't know) was mad/irritated with her that he's fine with being around her dad but she is not fine with being around his mom.

That decision, of course, should always be a personal one for all involved, and nobody should ever feel pressured nor guilted into being in situations they are uncomfortable with or they don't feel is a healthy environment to be in. I'm sure you agree.

Your BIL is just as wayward as your sister. Don't involve him. I think you need an emergency session with Dr. Harley because I think you need to expose NOW. They are spinning it and undermining your trust from the niece and nephew.

Delta, I would nip this in the bud now and have a personal chat with your neice. Your BIL said he told the kids the truth, so there should be no issue with having a frank discussion with the neice and making sure she has the true story.

It is not your fault if they have lied to her. If they have lied to her, then it is unacceptable that they would expect you to foot that lie too. Your DD and the rest of the world is under no obligation to carry water for liars.

Just get it done, Delta, and then move onto the next step, which is healing. Honestly, this is not something that warrants a call to Steve Harley. I would just get it done and move forward.

I agree, since they already told them "the truth" then there is no reason why they would get upset if you talked to her about it...which is the REAL TRUTH!

This is stressing you to death. End your stress by telling your niece and nephew.

It's somebody else's problem if they don't like that. You can treat your niece and nephew like adults, even if other people don't.

It's not like we're talking 3 year olds here whose parents are choosing not to tell them yet that Santa Claus is not real.

We're talking teenagers here who in times past would have been considered old enough to get married and start a family.

Simple, matter-of-fact: "Your uncle slept with your mother for several months, years ago. I found out only a few months ago. We're doing the best we can to handle it. Is there anything you'd like to ask me."

Show respect for any opinions they express or any advice or suggestions they offer.

Git er done, Delta!

I agree. Truth is far less stressful than uncertainty, for you and those poor young people both.

At this point, your BIL has given you open permission to discuss the "truth".

He has said that they have discussed the truth with the children, and that they have answered all questions truthfully to their children.

That is tacit approval to respond to the cousin's questions with the truth.

Tell your DD to respond openly and truthfully to any of the cousin's questions that may come up truthfully ....


AFTER YOUR HUSBAND EXPLAINS WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN YOUR SISTER AND HIMSELF.

Your husband should expose the affair at this point. BIL has said it is essentially out in the open with his children, so therefore, your husband is now responsible for apologizing to those kids.

He needs to do that, if he is to make an appropriate attempt at a proper restitution to them for his transgression.

They have a right to an apology, and along with that apology naturally comes a confession of his sin against them.


SB

And wouldn't it be much better if that apology were in writing, so there could be no further denial on the part of the parents...for future reference?


SB