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i so want him to love me. i want to do so much better than not "disabuse him of that notion.

You are married to a man that believes arranged marriage is the way to go. OTOH, you are a hopeless romantic that wants attention and admiration.

The root of your affair is visible from three miles away on a foggy day.

Are you in love with your H?

Or do you love him, but are not in love with him?

These are difficult questions, I know.

BTW, I wanted to divorce my wife after D0day, but could not act. I was paralyzed and choose the path of less resistance-------------work on the marriage. A much easier thing to do after age 50. Not sure what I would have done in my 20s with my entire life ahead of me.

Your H needs counseling crazy.


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Originally Posted by Stan-ley
You married him because he admired you. In fact he used typical OM smoothness to give you the admiration you wanted.

You also show a strong desire to please so you can get admiration in return. You want to be a perfect wife. I would not be surprised if you also wanted to be a perfect mate in the affair.

Within the context of looking for admiration I understand why my wife's OM was such a physical mismatch. All she cared about was the admiration. Thank God I dated her when we were teenagers running on teen hormones.

Is your inner self similar to your outer shell? Just checking.

i often doubt it. i worry about mark twain's quote that by the time we're 40, we all have the face we deserve. i hope i can get good enough by then to earn it. it would be hard to get ugly enough to match my actions. i'm vain. i better shape up.

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Originally Posted by RemainNameless
Scotland, i swear to you i'm not a weeper, but i'm shedding real-live tears.

was that residual fog-blather? was i just spouting resentful nonsense about my husband?

i so want him to love me. i want to do so much better than not "disabuse him of that notion." yet here i am being frickin snotty about something kind he said that i chose to misread.

i have so far to go.

THANK YOU!

Do you think that maybe you feel like he doesn't love you because YOU don't FEEL loveable? Like you don't DESERVE his love because of who YOU are? Maybe because you don't feel good enough for him? Just throwing that out there.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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fogulous ranting
rotflmao


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Originally Posted by Scotland
Originally Posted by RemainNameless
Scotland, i swear to you i'm not a weeper, but i'm shedding real-live tears.

was that residual fog-blather? was i just spouting resentful nonsense about my husband?

i so want him to love me. i want to do so much better than not "disabuse him of that notion." yet here i am being frickin snotty about something kind he said that i chose to misread.

i have so far to go.

THANK YOU!

Do you think that maybe you feel like he doesn't love you because YOU don't FEEL loveable? Like you don't DESERVE his love because of who YOU are? Maybe because you don't feel good enough for him? Just throwing that out there.

Awaiting your answer to this one. sigh


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Originally Posted by Stan-ley
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i so want him to love me. i want to do so much better than not "disabuse him of that notion.

You are married to a man that believes arranged marriage is the way to go. OTOH, you are a hopeless romantic that wants attention and admiration.

The root of your affair is visible from three miles away on a foggy day.

Are you in love with your H?

Or do you love him, but are not in love with him?

These are difficult questions, I know.

BTW, I wanted to divorce my wife after D0day, but could not act. I was paralyzed and choose the path of less resistance-------------work on the marriage. A much easier thing to do after age 50. Not sure what I would have done in my 20s with my entire life ahead of me.

Your H needs counseling crazy.

i know the "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You" spiel is so widespread among waywards it's got it's own acronym. i've never pulled that card on him, and i never will.

i told you in previous posts that i try to convey the impression that not only do i love him as a choice and conscious action, but that i am IN LOVE with him. because that's what I want. i'm a sucker, if he would go through the motions i would never know the difference.

H needs counseling??? a counselor can't make him fall in love with his wife. but maybe his wife can.

... smirk as long as she confines her dishonorable b****ing to this forum and keeps it out of his face.

like Ozzy said, no more tears.

"WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION, NUMB***S? ARE YOU GONNA STAND THERE WHININ' LIKE A LITTLE ***** OR ARE YOU GONNA GET IN THERE AND MEET SOME NEEEEEEEDS?"

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Originally Posted by Scotland
Do you think that maybe you feel like he doesn't love you because YOU don't FEEL loveable? Like you don't DESERVE his love because of who YOU are? Maybe because you don't feel good enough for him? Just throwing that out there.

YESSSS. did you read my thing re admiration, the need thereof? my ultimate conclusion was that if i want his admiration, i need to become more admirable. scroll back a few pages, you'll see it...it;s a reply to JustLearning, my Dutch Uncle...i'll quote it in a sec...

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here's what's missing: when i originally filled out my own ENQ, i felt like i craved affection and conversation, primarily, followed by conversation, SF, and attractiveness. (thankfully, i can take family commitment and honesty pretty much for granted. he's an extremely solid family man.) i just realized that H IS QUITE affectionate, he's ALWAYS been affectionate--he hugs and kisses me, extends me little courtesies like bringing me coffee, fluffing my pillow when i lie down, doing nice little things--being totally honest with myself, i get all the affection i need. something was lacking elsewhere that made me feel unloved.

i surprised myself. I NEED ADMIRATION. it never occurred to me before, but you know why? because if you view emotional adultery as seeking to fulfill your emotional needs outside of your marriage...i've basically been in a great big emotional affair with the entire world ever since we got married. i've always gotten all my admiration needs taken care of at work or with friends. i feel INHERENTLY valued, respected, and appreciated in other relationships. then when i come home, i've gotten all that out of my system so i don't feel any lack and i can concentrate on what HE needs. and what has given me an opportunity to get all that admiration from everyone else on the planet? recreational companionship. spending time together doing fun stuff, relaxing, being yourself, talking. and what does one need in order to pursue fun stuff? money. do we make enough? no. when we did, it's because i was earning more than him and had a substantial chunk of my own in the bank (in OUR names, of course). and did he feel like his role as primary breadwinner had been usurped, and did he get unpleasant and grudging? yes. did that make us want to spend more time together? no. our newly disposable income enabled to me to pursue independent behavior AND console myself with the rationalization that it was his money too and he had the freedom to whatever he wanted with it. my career at the time was a really good one. in fact, it's one that H wanted. i didn't know that when i took it. my career required lots of networking, which got me utterly drunk with admiration, which further fueled my entitlement, and enabled me--REQUIRED me--to hang around with other outgoing, chatty people with common goals, interests, and experiences.

i'm treating this forum like a flippin diary right now. i'm just working out for myself what i'm anxious about. ok: after my affair (which was a one-night stand, by the way, after a 1.5 year way-too-close friendship) after my affair i turned into a total recluse. i didn't want friends, i didn't want to talk, i didn't want to have fun--i wanted to disappear. i put all my effort into being a technically good wife, which i could do distractedly but without resentment because i HAD no emotional needs. maybe i was unconsciously trying to break my addiction to admiration??? by not associating with anyone at all except on the most superficial level, maybe i was denying myself the opportunity to be admired? speculation.

anyway, me staying home w/ the kids this summer has ensured that H is the SOLE breadwinner, it's forced me to break my habit of independent behavior, and it's given me the chance to focus on the domestic support stuff that he values so highly. problem is, i have to go back to work when summer's over.

my internal boundaries are set on Strictly Business, and i find the idea of ever again committing adultery, be it physical or emotional, positively repugnant. i'm not worried about myself in that regard, because i'm so guarded and wary about it.

my problem is...i THRIVE on admiration. i'm GOING to get admiration by default when i go back to work. and we're going to fall right back into the dynamic of get-your-needs-met-elsewhere-so-you-don't-act-needy-towards-your-husband.

i told my husband a few nights ago, when the subject came up ("you still doing any reading on that MB website? i'm glad you're learning so much."), that i'd realized that admiration is my thing, and that i'd been hesitant to tell him because, as i hastened to assure him, he's great with compliments and thank-you's, but i haven't felt particularly VALUED by him, and i felt silly telling him because as i said before, that's not an instance where it requires a change in BEHAVIOR on his part, it would mean changing his FEELINGS towards me, and that's MY responsibility.

he gave me this patient sigh and said, "well, honey, that's a self-esteem issue, i've always told you how much i love you..." and i felt like saying ARRRR!!! IT'S NOT A FRICKIN "SELF-ESTEEM ISSUE"!!! I TAKE IT FOR GRANTED THAT I'M INHERENTLY VALUABLE, AND SO DO OTHER PEOPLE!!! I WANT YOU TO VALUE ME!!!

now i regret telling him, because now he thinks i'm crazy, AND because he immediately tried to explain away my greatest desire with a half-baked pop-psych you've-got-issues remark.
what in the heck is wrong with someone wanting her husband to respect, appreciate, and value her??? i don't technically NEED it, i've gotten by without it for our entire marriage, but it's very, very unpleasant to think: "hmmm. everyone likes me except my husband." it makes me wonder if maybe he knows better and that maybe other people find me likeable because they don't live with me. but being fair and trying to maintain some measure of objectivity, i think it's more likely that he's indifferent to the qualities i typically get admiration for. so, maybe i am inherently valuable, just not to him. what do i do???


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ehhh. too much to quote. the admiration stuff and subsequent conclusions start on page 14 or so.

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Originally Posted by Stan-ley
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fogulous ranting
rotflmao

yeah, in real life i'm a writer...Dr. Seuss? perhaps you've heard of me?

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Sorry, I am a slow reader and sometimes VERY forgetful(especially as we get closer to the middle of the month, need a B12 shot soon).

I am trying to read your thread from the BEGINNING again so I can give you some HELPFUL advice. Please be patient.

I do see that MelodyLane suggested you getting yourself a plan for recovery WITH your husband and some radical honesty, how are you coming with those things? Sorry if you already answered. I will keep reading.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Originally Posted by Scotland
Sorry, I am a slow reader and sometimes VERY forgetful(especially as we get closer to the middle of the month, need a B12 shot soon).

I am trying to read your thread from the BEGINNING again so I can give you some HELPFUL advice. Please be patient.

I do see that MelodyLane suggested you getting yourself a plan for recovery WITH your husband and some radical honesty, how are you coming with those things? Sorry if you already answered. I will keep reading.

you betcha. the first few pages are slow going, i wasn't being very open.

i personally have a plan. but H is emphatically anti-counseling and anti-program, so i'm trying to slip it in under the radar. it's covert. sort of like you enacted your STUNNING plan A.

radical honesty--in fact, honest of any sort--has been lacking in our marriage from the git-go. we can't move forward w/out it. unfortunately, it's going to be virtually impossible IN OUR CURRENT STATE. eventually, if i keep up the unconditional support and needs-meeting, he will relax to the point i can introduce it. then comes POJA (which i've been trying to introduce in an "applied" sense, i.e., what should i do with my hair, what career should i pursue).

i wish we could just give ol' Steve and Jennifer a holler right now and get some proper mediated counseling underway, but it's not going to happen.

i've already brought us back to pre-affair conditions, but pre-affair conditions are, as you said, inherently incompatible and unsustainable. he likes me as much...AS BEFORE. he trusts me as much...AS BEFORE. he feels like we're OK. i don't think he knows what he's missing.

no radical honesty YET.

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Admiration is the easiest EN to meet in the planet.

I tell my wife she is beautiful and talented and she vibrates with joy. I can see her eyes smiling and her self esteem climbing to high altitude. I can compliment 10 times in a row and there is no tolerance to the compliments--------------she wants more and more. I always could get her aroused very easily with admiration. If we went to a party and she received admiration by other men she would get aroused and want SF when we got home.

Crafty OMs recognize women that crave admiration and they certainly know what to say. I have never been an OM, but since the affair I have learned to identify women that crave admiration. I can see why they fall for the smooth compliments.

Any woman that craves admiration is at risk for an affair.

You have your work cut out for you and your H needs to understand this. BTW, giving admiration can be a lot of fun because one is always rewarded.

RN:

You had SF only once and H knew right away. He had you under surveillance for some time. Could he be watching you now? I bet he reads everything you type here.

I think he is also daring you. He certainly dared you before. He could have stopped the affair before SF.


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Somehow this thread seems to be drifting off without focus. Remains you need a plan what is your plan?

JL

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RN:

You posted this about OM a month ago:

#2385987 - 06/05/10 11:40 PM Re: will i feel like this forever? [Re: MelodyLane]

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nothing. no email, pics, facebook, nothing. i could contact him easily enough if i wanted to, i just haven't, out of respect for my husband and the promise i made not to.

i don't harbor any fantasies about What Might Have Been...X was pretty impractical as far as any type of relationship goes. i don't think i would be happier if i divorced my husband and married him, for instance.

tell you the truth, i would LOVE to hear through the grapevine that X has gotten remarried, or moved to Utah, or something. maybe that would help me forget him.


Then on #2400511 - 07/04/10 08:40 PM Re: everything LOOKS happy...what's my deal? [Re: Stan-ley]

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i can't afford to believe in that soul-mates stuff, because number one, practically ALL WWs believe OM is their "soul mate", and number two, OM DIED last year. i found out recently through a mutual acquaintance that he died in February of 09. i had no reason to post it--what would people say, "im sorry for your loss"? but if that's the case, then the soul-mates thing is pretty much out the window, wouldn't you say? and maybe i'd better find a new soul-mate, and maybe i should start with my husband.

RN:

It is no big deal to me if you are making up a story. When reading stuff in the internet one never knows for sure and folks can write anything they want. It is possible to have a philosophical discussion whether your story is a fable or the truth.

Maybe you learned about OM's death last week. But, like i said--------it does not matter as long as we learn something.

Last edited by Stan-ley; 07/07/10 08:55 AM.

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2385987 - 06/05/10 11:40 PM Re: will i feel like this forever? [Re: MelodyLane]


Quote:

nothing. no email, pics, facebook, nothing. i could contact him easily enough if i wanted to, i just haven't, out of respect for my husband and the promise i made not to.

i don't harbor any fantasies about What Might Have Been...X was pretty impractical as far as any type of relationship goes. i don't think i would be happier if i divorced my husband and married him, for instance.

tell you the truth, i would LOVE to hear through the grapevine that X has gotten remarried, or moved to Utah, or something. maybe that would help me forget him.



Then on #2400511 - 07/04/10 08:40 PM Re: everything LOOKS happy...what's my deal? [Re: Stan-ley]


Quote:i can't afford to believe in that soul-mates stuff, because number one, practically ALL WWs believe OM is their "soul mate", and number two, OM DIED last year. i found out recently through a mutual acquaintance that he died in February of 09. i had no reason to post it--what would people say, "im sorry for your loss"? but if that's the case, then the soul-mates thing is pretty much out the window, wouldn't you say? and maybe i'd better find a new soul-mate, and maybe i should start with my husband.

RN:

It is no big deal to me if you are making up a story.


"making up a story" is just a sugar coated word for LYING.

That doesn't bother you?

You spend time helping a person only to discover that it has been a LIE all along...that wouldn't bother you?

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Originally Posted by committedandlovi
"making up a story" is just a sugar coated word for LYING.

That doesn't bother you?

You spend time helping a person only to discover that it has been a LIE all along...that wouldn't bother you?

committed

people, that's why i didn't feel it worthy of mention in the first place. If you read my original post you'll see that i didn't look it up to confirm it. hearsay was enough for me. but i jolly well bet my husband has confirmed it, or if he found out otherwise he's satisfied that i believe it.

this may sound cold-hearted, but i don't care to look it up. i find it easier to proceed on the platform that he is in fact dead.

plus as far as sheer fabrication, how much sympathy do you think that's likely to generate? if i were making up stories for attention, wouldn't i have chosen to be a betrayed wife? i don't want people leaving this thread with the impression that i'm a drama queen and a liar.

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"making up a story" is just a sugar coated word for LYING.

That doesn't bother you?

You spend time helping a person only to discover that it has been a LIE all along...that wouldn't bother you?

This is the Internet.

I can only react to the words in the screen and hope they are sincere.

If she makes up a story it is all about her own issues. This is certainly not about me, why should I be upset.

Maybe we can both learn something.

In any event it is likely RN discovered the death or her OM in the last couple of weeks. Lets wait for her reply.


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this may sound cold-hearted, but i don't care to look it up. i find it easier to proceed on the platform that he is in fact dead.


Then why did you say you could contact him easily enough if you wanted to if you were "proceeding on the platform that he is in fact dead"?


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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