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The calculator you linked to is incorrect. There are many more rich people than it indicates.

The IRS Statistics of Income for 2008 says that there were about 4,400,000 returns filed for 2008 showing adjusted gross income in excess of 200,000 (out of 142.5 million returns total). The calculator you linked to reports that a person earning $200,000 per year is the 786,570 richest person in the world. So they are off by a factor of 6, and that is just in the USA. When you take the whole world into account, they are off by at least an order of magnitude.

Not surprising that they would be tempted to "fudge" the numbers. They want people to feel rich and blessed and guilty so they give money. They seem to be devoting the donations to worthy causes. I guess the ends justify the means.

Still, if I tell my wife "there are only about 60 million people in the world richer than us, out of 6 billion", we are right where she and I were yesterday. Consciously aware that we are in the top 1%. But not feeling very appreciative. More conscious of how far we have fallen shorts of our hopes and expectations than of how much farther down we could fall.


When you can see it coming, duck!
holdingontoit #2408767 07/22/10 01:17 PM
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Hold, I haven't posted to this forum for years, but I've continued to follow your story. Certain aspects of your story always resonated with mine. I was married for 10 years to my ex-wife, with a young child (who's now 11). She destroyed my credit, hid debt from me, got debt in my name, refused to have sex, etc etc. I'm sure if you look up my old posts you can find my story. My ex also cheated on me constantly.

Like you I felt worthless and beat down. Depressed all the time. Wondered if this was what I deserved, etc, etc.

I was honestly at the point where I wondered if I should continue on, if you know what I mean. Then I dug up the courage and finally left my wife. The prospect scared me as much as staying with her, but I knew if I didn't my kid would probably not have a dad for too much longer.

We were already in the red financially every month, so we both had to file bankruptcy. I felt super depressed and bad for a good 6 months, in addition to living in a crappy apartment and eating noodles day in and day out. But you know what?

I got through it.

After the bankruptcy went thru that gave me a little more breathing room. My kid turned out to be just fine after the divorce. I started healing.

I tried dating but ran away from any woman who gave me a red alarm that she was ANYTHING like my ex. So I didn't really date much. But then 3 years into it I met the love of my life. I never knew what love truly was before that. Or what it was like to actually have someone truly care about your feelings and love you. (And yes, sex came with the total package).

It's been a couple years, and we've since married. If you'd have asked me 6 years ago if I thought I'd be financially stable, married to a wonderful woman, and really living the life of my dreams, what do you think I would have said? Hell No.

Don't really know why I'm posting this to you. You won't make a decision until you're willing to make a decision. But I think you owe it to yourself to truly consider getting a divorce. Your kids will be fine. You'll be fine. Do you really want your kids growing up thinking that what you and their mom has is a normal relationship?

I'm going back to lurkdom, but I just want you to know that you're in my prayers and I think you deserve at least a chance of being happy. Or at least to not be so damn sad all the time.

Jason

jhj75 #2409145 07/23/10 08:24 AM
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JHJ, you may be right. We should probably get divorced and both be happier.

Last night I told Mrs. Hold she looked nice in her low cut top. She said it was creepy the way I look at her sometimes. I said "yes, I know it bothers you. I try not to stare. You look so good it is hard to resist." She said it creeped her out sometime. I said "it is an unfortunate interaction between us. You are understandably sensitive. I am particularly needy. It really doesn't work well together." She started to freak out "what, so it is all on me, all my fault?" I said "no, it is our interaction. I want sex and need sex and that puts pressure on you and you cannot tolerate any pressure." She started screaming "so it is all me? All my fault? Nothing on you?" I calmly replied "no, that is not what I said, I said it was a combination of both of us." She said "don't you think you are way out on the far end of the scale?" I said "no, actually, I think on the range of husbands I am probably less demanding than most, but you cannot tolerate any pressure at all so any non-zero pressure from me causes problems." Again she screamed at me about putting all the blame on her. I said "I am not blaming you. I am just describing how it feels to me. Every night I come home and my heart is cut out from my chest and sliced into little pieces and left out in the sun to rot." She said "so I am never entitled to feel icky? Never entitled to not be in the mood?" I said "of course you can be icky sometimes. But you reject me overwhelmingly." She said "I hardly ever turn you down." I said "of course not, because I hardly ever ask. But what about the many nights I come home from work and before I can even say hello you warn me that you feel icky or tired or not well or that I should be quiet because you are trying to rest. You don't think those are pre-emptive rejections? Well they are to me. You reject me all the time."

Then she asked "so what are we going to do about it? Well, what do you want to do?" I said "nothing. This is an irresolvable problem. We have been working on it for 13 years. Neither of us is going to change. All couples have irresovable differences. Some can't agree on whether sushi is edible. It is a shame that our irresolvable difference is about something so important." She asked again what we are going to do about it. I said "nothing. You are a nice person. I am a nice person. We are going to stay married and raise our children together."

She grabbed her nightie and went into the bathroom to change.

If I had any guts or any self-esteem I would have said that we are going to get divorced and each try to find happiness elsewhere.


When you can see it coming, duck!
holdingontoit #2409158 07/23/10 08:48 AM
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It is not too late to have a second conversation and answer with the truth.

The truth is either things have to change or you are outta there. Why should she change at all, ever, if she knows you wont leave no matter how much bad treatment she dishes out?

Remember, this woman does not care about YOU. But pressure might make her want to change, and in changing to save the marriage, she just may start caring about others instead of just herself.

I feel you have allowed her to be infantile, selfish, ruling with her anger, hostile, all of these and this has not helped you, her, or the kids.

Bubbles4U #2409172 07/23/10 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bubbles4U
The truth is either things have to change or you are outta there.


But that is not the truth. The truth is that things have to change or I will be miserable. But I won't leave even if I am miserable. She despises me for not having enough guts to leave. But she likes the status quo so she is perfectly willing to allow me to stay miserable if it keeps her in her house and not having to work.

If I said I was divorcing her, would she provide more sex? Almost certainly not. You should have seen how she freaked out last night when I suggested she was overly sensitive to pressure. No, she would get angry and make the divorce a living h3ll for me.

It is very clear to me that I am being abused. Or at least reacting like a victim of abuse. I see what the other person is doing. I see how they control me through fear. And I continue to allow it. I don't see myself as strong and empowered. I don't feel like I can file for divorce and get a good lawyer and get a decent settlement. I feel powerless. Just like a victim of abuse. And even seeing it, I continue to let it happen.


When you can see it coming, duck!
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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
The calculator you linked to is incorrect. There are many more rich people than it indicates.

The IRS Statistics of Income for 2008 says that there were about 4,400,000 returns filed for 2008 showing adjusted gross income in excess of 200,000 (out of 142.5 million returns total). The calculator you linked to reports that a person earning $200,000 per year is the 786,570 richest person in the world. So they are off by a factor of 6, and that is just in the USA. When you take the whole world into account, they are off by at least an order of magnitude.


I'll take your word for it Hold. Besides it doesn't matter anyway. Money won't solve your problem.

holdingontoit #2409180 07/23/10 09:11 AM
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But you are getting closer and closer to the truth. When you finally reach that TRUTH that says that divorce will be hard but you will survive just fine, then you will feel a whole lot better. Why not contact some of your attorney buddies about getting a post nup agreement going? That creep should not be able to abuse you, use you, steal from you, lie to you, and then get a lot of money in the divorce also!!

It is no wonder you dont have more motivation to make more money. I would'nt either with a spouse like that. She is no better than a common criminal.

holdingontoit #2409191 07/23/10 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit
...I am a nice person. We are going to stay married and raise our children together."
...But that is not the truth. The truth is that things have to change or I will be miserable. But I won't leave even if I am miserable. She despises me for not having enough guts to leave. But she likes the status quo so she is perfectly willing to allow me to stay miserable if it keeps her in her house and not having to work.

Mr. Hold...you and me both are in a somewhat similar situations...and we're both "nice guys"...

my I suggest a book for you to read...you can even buy the eBook for about 10 bucks...i read the book in one day (when I should've been working)...

The book is called "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert A. Glover...I think you'll find it informative...

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Hold, I didn't look at the calculator, just want to say that income has little to do with wealth. If you make $400,000 a year and spend $500,000, you are less wealthy than the guy making $50,000 a year who has $100,000 in savings and $80,000 in home equity.

Income is how much you earn.

Wealth is how much you own vs how much you owe.

Some people 'look' wealthy and are mortgaged out their rear. If you can liquidate your assets and have something left, that's your wealth.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
Bubbles4U #2409199 07/23/10 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bubbles4U
It is no wonder you dont have more motivation to make more money. I would'nt either with a spouse like that. She is no better than a common criminal.


That is why I am so surprised she hasn't dumped me. I can't believe she hasn't figured out that I long since stopped trying to succeed. She seems to believe I am trying and failing and that if I keep plugging away, some day my efforts will be rewarded. I can't believe that she hasn't figured out the truth.

Mr. Anderson

Own the book. Participate in the web forum under the same screen name as here.

I think NMMNG is wonderful and I often suggest it to guys here. I urge you to do the BFE's and break free. I have decided not to. Hopefully you will choose more wisely.


When you can see it coming, duck!
CWMI #2409201 07/23/10 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: CWMI
Some people 'look' wealthy and are mortgaged out their rear. If you can liquidate your assets and have something left, that's your wealth.


Understood. I have zero wealth. Equity in our house would just about balance out our credit card debts. If I liquidated everything, there would be nothing left. That is what was so depressing about the cold call from the broker. He could not imagine that someone who had been a lawyer for 20+ years has no savings. But it is true. I don't.

Bubbles

I don't need a post nup. I have no assets to protect. A post-nup that said "she gets no support" would not be enforceable. A post-nup that said "she gets none of my assets" would be irrelevant. Psot-nups are for people who have enough income and assets that their ex-spouse could live on far less than what they would get under the "default rule". The difference between the minimum a judge would accept under a post-nup and what she would get without one isn't worth paying lawyers to argue over. That is the benefit of my not having made any career progress in 10 years. She isn't going to get much in the divorce, because there isn't much to get.


When you can see it coming, duck!
holdingontoit #2409210 07/23/10 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: holdingontoit

That is why I am so surprised she hasn't dumped me. I can't believe she hasn't figured out that I long since stopped trying to succeed. She seems to believe I am trying and failing and that if I keep plugging away, some day my efforts will be rewarded. I can't believe that she hasn't figured out the truth.


Here's an idea---TELL HER!!!

holdingontoit #2409212 07/23/10 10:02 AM
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HOLD, your wife has to live in denial and keep telling herself that someday you will make the big money she wants and expects. After all, she does not love you, this money (actually the hope of the money) is all there is for her. And since she is not willing to work...or help out financially, then she has to continue to lie to herself.

If she told herself the truth, that you would never make a big huge income, then she might be unhappy. She is probably way to lazy to leave you regardless of if she faces the truth occasionally.

Possibly the reason she exudes so much constant inner hostility is because the truth seeps in to her psyche occasionally and she cannot stand it.

She is a real piece of work. It would enhance your life so much if she did leave you.

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HEY! I got an idea!!! Instead of a post nup, do a "work slowdown". You know, like slaves used to do with the Plantation Owners.

Start gradually slowing down at work, then curtail her credit cards gradually...so gradually that for a while she does not notice. Curtail or eliminate any "allowance" for that criminal.

Then, develop a plan to make less and less at work over 5 years time.

Since you are like an "abuse victim" you should have a secret bank account or two you can shovel a bit of money into each month. Or, a safe deposit box somewhere that she cannot get her greedy paws on.

See if you can get her to take on a job.

Then, you will have the upper hand in a divorce.

I know you can do this, HOLD!!!!

Bubbles4U #2409236 07/23/10 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bubbles4U
HEY! I got an idea!!! Instead of a post nup, do a "work slowdown". You know, like slaves used to do with the Plantation Owners.

Then, you will have the upper hand in a divorce.

I know you can do this, HOLD!!!!


Bubbles you crack me up. And Bubbles does not fit you at all.

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LOL,LOL!!!

Bubbles4U #2409243 07/23/10 10:31 AM
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Sadly, HOLD is like a slave:

1. He puts up with bad treatment
2. He does not know how to be free
3. He accepts her power over him
4. He nods and shuffles around as she abuses him
5. He works hard daily just like she wants
6. He contributes everything to the household
7. She, like a slave owner lounges around and contributes nothing
8. He keeps that "plantation" going while she lounges.
9. He even cares for the children so she can laze and relax
10. He is now brainwashed into being a CAPTIVE rather than having FREEDOM

Geeze it is more like slavery than I even thought!!!!

Bubbles4U #2409244 07/23/10 10:32 AM
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Time for the slave to REVOLT!!!! Or, plan a careful future escape to freedom!!!!

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Hold,

When she yells/screams/shouts...remove yourself. No matter how much you want to say what you want to say, repeat what you just said or repeat again...

stop.

You don't feel empowered because you stay present for the abuse. You lecture, dissuade, persuade...while she verbally abuses you.

"Yelling is abusive"

and just leave the room.

She continues, leave the house.

Seriously.

For you, no stating beyond that, no respect or decency (because I know you don't choose to do those, like radical honesty).

You remove because that's your most basic, necessary boundary.

See, I think you don't say, and don't say some more, until you just gotta say, provocatively, parentally, and then you lay the yelling at her feet.

No daily boundary of sharing your opinion (in tidy bits).

No "Ouch" when she says to her your stare is disturbing (and think of how she could be setting you up for a restraining order)...

Nope. We know you choose not to free yourself, act from respect, love and honor the marriage...we get it.

Do the minimal because...when you don't (and you don't), you are doing harm, manipulation, dishonesty and disrespect.

I think you have a ton of "got to's" in your head, behind your thoughts, justifying your way...which keeps your self-hatred at a comfortably optimal level.

She isn't the villain...nor are you. You're both partners in crime, IMO. Using the children to justify your patterns as you keep doing harm.

And looking so nice and lovable, tolerant, long-suffering.

Pain is necessary; suffering is optional.

You're addicted.

LA

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Pain is necessary; suffering is optional.

You're addicted.


I've told you this before, Hold...

God doesn't want you to be miserable. Why do you want to be miserable? Does being miserable allow you to hold something over your wife's head?


Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

Me 47
DH 46
Together for 28 years.
Married 21 years.
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