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ed32 Offline OP
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Do you think I am making a mistake by giving her the chance to talk to Dr Harley and convince me that she is committed to following his advice?

She knows I want her to do this. I am not going to nag her to do it. If she makes excuses about not having time, then I know my answer.

In the meantime, I agree that I should limit my contact with her until she demonstrates a committment to making changes.

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No, I don't think that is a mistake. The mistake is WAITING for her to do that. And I would say - you don't even MENTION it again.

She already knows. Don't even give her the opportunity to make an excuse. In fact, don't even expect her to do it. Don't ask about it, nothing.

You LET her come to you. You LET her demonstrate her changes. But don't wait for them, don't expect them. Go on with your life as if they will never happen. If she ever does call the Harley's THEN you make the decision if you want to repair this or not. You may not even want to, and that won't be YOUR fault, it will be hers.

She has to WANT this.


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Quote:
WW came by the house last night to talk. Says she wants to work on things and is willing to cut off all ties with OM, commit to counseling and making changes. I am skeptical, but I actually hope she is serious.


From last January - see above.

Ed you need to quit being the yo-yo man. Detach and move-on. She may be the mother of your children but she is a toxic human being who uses people for her own needs. We should feel sorry for any man that falls for this creature. From what I can tell in this thread - she is intelligent, manipulative and dangerous.


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ed32 Offline OP
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Just a quick update... I spoke with Steve Harley last week and had a very good discussion with him. In short, he said that my ex has a "flawed view of relationships" He sent me a copy of buyers, renters and freeloaders. She was/is defintely a freeloader. I am very much a buyer. The challenge will be educating her and changing her into a buyer. He said he would like to talk to her and suggested that I keep relationship talk very general and limited. He thinks the message will be much more effective coming from him... not as self-serving.

So, I told my ex that I spoke to Dr. Harley and that I thought it would be helpful if she spoke to him. She says she will...but here we are about a week later and she has not scheduled anything. I was going to give it a few more days before saying anything. The ONLY way things will work for me is if she counsels with Dr. Harley. And even then it will be a challenge.

Things have been pretty good between us. NC with OM as far as I know. He lives out of state. She could be e-mailing him with a secret account, but I have no way of knowing that. She still lives in her own place so I dont have access to her computer. We are getting along, but I still have a lot of resentment and triggers that cause pain. She seems to want to act like the A never happened.

My feelings have love for her have completely faded. I was talking to a friend about the situation and he asked me if she made me a better person. I couldnt say yes...which I think is telling.

One of her biggest complaints has always been that she does not want to be told what to do. So I am not pushing her to call Dr Harley. I am trying to continue to be nice to her and just be myself, but it is hard to show her any love. I will give it a couple days before I ask about why she hasnt called Dr Harley. Who knows...maybe she will surprise me and schedule something.

My kids are the only thing keeping me in this right now... I see how happy they are to have her around and see us do things as a family. The problem is that when the kids arent around...I feel resentment and pain.

On a side note...tomorrow was our anniversary. Would have been 9 years. I was not going to mention it. She broke her vows to me. That date is meaningless as far as I'm concerned. Although we are still married as far as the Catholic church is concerned, but she no longer practices/believes in my religion.

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BECAUSE YOURE NOT MARRIED!

Ed, seriously, its time to accept the reality and stop this denial youre in. Its over! Youre divorced! She can contact OM all night and every day if she wishes! She can use her computer in whatever way she wants and if you tried to put a keylogger on it you would be arrested and charged!

Ed, Im saying this to you as a man who was stuck just as you are. I hung on to the idea that my ex would come back and called her my WW waaaay after she had left.

Took me a while to accept, but its over. You need to move on.

Yes, it sucks when the kids arent with you, but thats a new reality you have to accept. Its the reality of divorce.

Why do you want to hang on to someone that is so manipulative? Why are you trying to please someone that cheated on you?

Youre divorced. Let her go. Move on.

You can do much better. My point is that youre settling and dont need to.

In a way, what youre doing and hoping for is very disturbing. Youre hanging on to something in the hopes that a royally mentally messed up woman suddenly changes and becomes a good Catholic and a good wife.

ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

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Originally Posted By: helpthelostdads
You can do much better. My point is that youre settling and dont need to.


Indeed. Even living life alone and single is much better.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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ed32 Offline OP
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I guess I feel like there have been some signs of progress, so I want to be patient and give things a chance. Maybe talking to Dr. Harley could be a turning point for her...

I read the stories of recovery and it gives me hope at times. But then there are other times when I think the resentment and pain she caused is too much to overcome.

I'm not saying I think this is going to happen. I am just willing to give it a chance before I tell her to stop coming over to the house and that I don't want to see her.

But if she isn't willing to talk to Dr. Harley or is not on board with his advice, then I will politely tell her that I no longer want her in my life.

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ed,

I simply say this. There is hope that you can have a good life and be happy. There is hope that you having a good life and being happy would be good for your children. There is NO HOPE that you can fix what is within your exW.

Please use your hope on the part of life you control...yourself.

God Bless,

JL

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ed32 Offline OP
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I know that only she can fix herself. I have seen some changes and progress. She is more patient and a much better mother than before. Like I said, when we are together as a family things have been going well.

I guess I was feeling pretty good about things after my session with Dr Harley last week. She seemed open to talking to him... so I'm just discouraged and losing patience.

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Originally Posted By: ed32
She seemed open to talking to him... so I'm just discouraged and losing patience.


Ed,

You shouldn't be losing patience at this point. You're divorced. The best thing you can do right now is be civil to one another for the sake of the kids and MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE. You're wasting valuable time pushing on someone that doesn't want to make the effort when you should be working on YOU.


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Ed, seriously, if you could remove yourself from your situation you would see how you sound. You sound desperate and like you have no self esteem. You somehow feel you can't do better.

Here's the reality about your exw. She's messed in the head! She isn't going to miraculously change by talking to Steve H.

MOVE ON!

Again, I was just like you. I hung on to denial, thinking there was someday hope.

Looking back, I'm glad she never came back to me. I'm happy she never came to her senses. Life with her would have been a sentence to misery.

I'm happy and remarried now.

Is the situation ideal for the kids? No. But that was a decision my ex made for all of us long ago.

But seriously, it's sad to see you have such low self worth that you feel you can't do better than a manipulative woman who has cheated on you and won't let you move on with your life.

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You got a divorce and now you are letting her hang out with you? You need help. Why take that toxic woman back!!! You worked so hard to get rid of her. It is like trying to un-ring a bell.

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Ed,

What you see as progress on her behalf, we see as manipulation because that is exactly what it is. Seriously, I know it sucks and it hurts, but you can do better. Time to move on. She hasnt changed and wont have some miraculous change by talking to SH.

Notice how her song and dance all changed when you dated again. She is mad she got rejected. She is putting on a good show while at the same time telling you she feels no spark and has to have it.

She is cake eating and youre being abused. Youre being told you lack a certain something that gets her going. Yet, you keep coming back like a lost puppy, hoping she suddenly thinks youre great.

Her motives arent the same as yours. Shes being guided by her libido and her desire to have passion. You want to restore your family.

There is a BIG difference. Its a motive I understand. I was there. SHE ISNT GOING TO CHANGE!

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Ed,

I haven't seen one word on here on how all this drama and manipulation from your XWW is affecting your children.

Why are you not protecting your kids from this?? They need a secure home with reasonable, stable adults in it. They do not need a "mother" who comes and goes as she pleases and has no more respect for divorce than she had for marriage.

It's clear to all of us that what you see as "hope" are nothing but empty words from XWW to reel you back in. Everytime she thinks you're moving on, she tells you whatever you want to hear and bang! She's got you right back where she wants you.

She's never had to DO anything. She knows that all she has to do is mouth the right words and you will be right back with her.

Go back and read this thread again. It is just one long journal of exactly that, over and over and over again.

You have failed to understand the most important aspect of adultery: No cheater is trying to "choose" between their spouse and somebody else. Every single cheater on this planet wants to have both their spouse AND somebody else. That's the entire goal of adultery. If it wasn't, they would just leave the marriage. But they don't. They lie and cheat and waffle and sit on the fence and eat their cake and drag out having BOTH for just as long as they possibly can.

Your XWW is the queen of this behaviour, and I suspect you still think she's trying to "choose" between you and other men and if you just hold yourself out as the better choice she'll eventually see that so if you just wait long enough -

You don't understand, ed. She is NOT trying to "choose". No adulterer is. She wants both you AND other men and this entire thread is a testament to that.

Once you understand that her goal is not to "choose" but to have BOTH, maybe you'll make some progress.

And maybe your children will have a fighting chance at a normal life without a selfish cheater dropping in and out of their lives and calling herself "mommy". You can be sure that when they are older, they will forever wonder why Daddy didn't protect them from that.


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twoxfour

Are we getting through yet?

This is how we feel every time you come back and think there is hope with this woman:

banghead doh2 rant2

Ed, it doesn't seem to be getting through to you because you don't want to hear it. She will never voluntarily seek out SH and will only do so once you threaten to move on and drop her.

That's when she'll act. Because that's the only time a wayward acts. When a BS takes action is the only time they act.

She is playing you like a fiddle. We all see it. What does your family say to you?

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I hate to say it but women like your ex, ED, always know how to "act" to reel you back in and give you "hope".

This is how they work. They reel men in and then use them. They cheat on these men and then reel 'em in more and use them again and again.

Please find out why you allow yourself to be used.

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Mulan - my kids have actually been very happy to see us spending time together as a family. I guess thats why this is so tough for me. At times, I think maybe I rushed the divorce. I don't know...

But I hear what everyone is saying. Other than her showing more patience around the kids, not much has changed. She treats me like a friend and nothing more. I know she is a freeloader...her comments about a "switch" being turned off is classic freeloader mentality. I get that.... I guess I was hopeful it might be possible to turn her into a buyer, if she would educate herself.

It just very tough... we are getting along. My kids are happy. Her relationship with OM is over. I feel like a family again. I just dont know what to do or how to proceed from where I am.

I don't think she is a serial cheater... As Steve Harley told me, he thinks she has a flawed view of relationships. He also thinks there is an independence issue with her.

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I don't understand why anyone who is finally free of such toxicity would ever willingly keep it up.

Do you know what you're teaching your kids? That it's appropriate for women to treat men this way. That crumbs are JUST FINE!


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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ed32 Offline OP
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Why not say the same for every BS? Any BS is totally free and justified on walking away from a WS who cheats. It is the cruelest most thoughtless thing you could ever do to your husband or wife. So why would any BS return to a WS? But for some reason, many BSs decide they want to work on things.

All along, I have been of the mindset that I would rather repair than replace. It would be best for my kids. I also understand that I need to be happy too. But I guess thats why I was willing to give things a chance once OM was out of the picture.

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Well... I'm gonna duck before the 2x4s start swinging! Have to go pick up my kids and will be offline for a while.

I know I sound stubborn or like my head is up you know where... but so much of her actions, words, etc. have been described as "typical wayward" So I guess thats why I was willing to give things a chance. I'm not saying I'm optimistic they will work, but I wanted to see how things play out before completely cutting her out of my life.

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