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Hello everyone. I am not new to this forum, I read and sought advice 3 years ago when my husband had an affair with a woman at work. To make a long story short, we reconciled and have been, what I thought, on the right path for the last 3 years. However, last month he began having an affair with a woman we have known from a social club we belong to. My husband does have a drinking problem(history of family alcoholism) and spends a great deal of time in the "club". I do not drink, therefore spend almost no time there. This woman's father was the president of the social club, a heavy drinker and was dying (he has since past).My husband drove her to the hospital from the club a little over a month ago (they were both drunk!)and have been having the affair ever since. She & two daughers were living for 8 years with a nice guy who was like a father to the girls, and treated her very well (house, car, trips, money)(but he wouldn't marry her). My husband is planning on moving into the same apartment complex at the beginning of next month after Christmas. My older son is over 18, living at home and doesn't have a really good relationship with his father. Our youngest son, 15, is devistated. I beleive in marriage, I beleive that "what GOD has joined together, let no man put asunder". I am torn. I don't know given this is the second affair in 3 years and I now know his drinking and his problems are HIS problems, should I let him move out and find himself? She is an alcohlic and takes all kinds of mental health and pain medication. I know I will be fine emotionally. I am a deeply spritual person and have great faith in God. I am worried financially. I have applied for child/spousal support and do work full time and go to college. I am worried that if he continues to live here(sleeping on the couch) and stays with her on week ends(her kids go with bio-dad)sleeping with her and partying/acting like a newlywed he is getting the best of both worlds. I should mention he works shift and only sleeps here when he "can't" be at her place, here maybe 2-3 times a week.I should mention that I took him back 3 years ago rather too quickly, there was no genuine remorse, never even said he was sorry. I do love him still, but I don't know if I should try again. Even as I type this, he is over her apt helping her hang pictures. Is there any hope? Is it better to have them stay or leave on their own? He saw a divorce attorney and won't file because it's too expensive. My heart is broken again, but I don't let him know that. I really, really, really don't know what to do. Sorry for the long post, but I feel lost and alone. Thanks everyone for just listening to me. MD


BS/ME 47 Met on blind date
WH 46(Alcoholic,drugs?)
DS1:18 DS2:15
1st A EA9/07 PA10/07 NC11/07
2nd A EA/PA-10/2010
Found out- 11/20/2010
He moved out-1/1/2011 same apt.cmplx as OW(&her kids)
PlanB-1/1/11(broken)
NEW PB-2/11 Taking it one day at a time


There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who say to God, "Thy will be done" and those to whom God says, "Alright then, have it your way." ~C .S.Lewis


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His drinking is an active addiction. The MB won't work until he has taken care of that issue -- and it sounds like he has no interest in repairing that problem.

I think you need to put him out and let his problems be his problems.

Expose to the boyfriend. He needs to know that this woman is taking advantage of him.

Then seperate yourself. Go to Plan B and cut yourself off from him entirely.

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MD, sorry you are back here. Unfortunately, recovery is not possible with a practicing alcoholic which is why you find yourself back in the same boat. There was never any plan of recovery. Staying with him will do nothing other than tear you down emotionally and physically.

Plan A is not recommended with an alcoholic because it is impossible to meet the needs of an alcoholic. They do not have normal emotions and simply use Plan A as a way to exploit and abuse you.

I would try get him to move out ASAP and change the locks. After he is moved out, go into an airtight Plan B and expose the affair wide and far. Tell the OW's dad, tell everyone so there is no misunderstanding about what led to your break up. This way, your H and his skankho will not be welcomed in many social circles.

In your Plan B letter, make one of your conditions that he stop drinking for life and enter an ongoing program of alcohol recovery. Otherwise this is hopeless.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I will just warn you that when you do kick him out and go into a dark Plan B, he will probably go crazy. He is very dependent upon you. But it will be in his best interests for you to RESIST any contact from him. He has to hit a rock bottom in order to want to change.

Just prepare for him to try very hard to manipulate his way back. You will hear lots of promises that go something like this: "I am seeking," "I am trying" "I will try to...." "I am working on..." They are masters at manipulation, so you cannot ever go by their words. You must always go by his ACTIONS.

Don't accept anything less that complete and total sobriety for 90 days before you even consider reconcilation discussions.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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your husband is an alcoholic...no amount of marriage builders is going to fix any relationship as long as there's a spouse with an addiction.

i understand your conviction in regard to your marriage vows...growing up my dad was an alcoholic, although a functioning one...my mother never wavered and stood by him for the better part of 22 years...my mother was able to spend 16 years with a sober husband until she passed a few months ago...BUT my mother didn't have to deal with affairs...

the only hope is that he's going to have to get sober first and realize what he's doing to you and his marriage...my advice is to expose this affair...file for a divorce, go into plan B and pray that God will somehow intervene...he's abandoned you...trust in God and He lead you...either the marriage will be restored or in time He will open a new door for you...it's going to be tough, b/c you still love him, but you have to let him go for awhile...so surround yourself with a good support group...

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When you go into Plan B, be sure and designate a hard ass intermediary who won't let him con his way through and who will pledge to remain neutral.

Then, if he does sober up and wants to discuss reconciliation, come here and tell us what he proposes. Several of us here are recovered alcoholics and see right through the smoke and mirrors. WE will know if he is sincere.

Setting the bar high on your husband could save his life!!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Egg-zack-lee. Immediate Plan B, and exposure.

Since you set the bar too low last time, and the two of you never truly recovered, he's not automatically a serial adulterer. Without addressing the alcohol problem, and him being on board with EP's and leading your R, you never even had a chance.

Let me be very clear: your ONLY chance of R at this point is to block him from every aspect of your life, and set the bar for his return EXTREMELY high. You'll need to see actions demonstrated over time, not just vague promises that never come to fruition.

I'm so sorry you're back, but glad you knew right where to come.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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mitzie Offline OP
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Thank you for replying. The boyfriend does know. He caught her in their bed 4 years ago with another guy and things were not all-right with them. He basically threw her out, but did help her move (along with my husband! all three of them, how weird!)I have talked to him on a few occasions. I think he feels like I do, enough of the boozing and disrespect? He is emotionally tied to her children and was close to her family though. The affair is already exposed, it pretty much was exposed from day 1 with them.They told all their drinking buddies. I told all his family and so did he. THEY EXPOSED IT! THEY are both in love and don't care who knows or what the consiquences are. Although they hid it from their partners and lied totheir partners about it! Obviously they don't care who gets hurt.I Have called her and spoken to her, as she was a friend (friend? friend? yeah right!)She claims her kids are doing very well and enjoying their new life! I know the alcoholism is bad and although he is a "fun" drunk(think goodtime charly with a harley) that is not a lifestyle I want or enjoy nor do i want our children copying. I unfortunatly live in a community property state, and cannot change the locks on the door. Been to legal and not a good idea for wife to file for divorce, there is an 18 month wait period after filing before house and property can be sold if contested(where I live with children-1 under 18). Until then legal husband is responsible for legal wife. They want to marry? they will have 18 months from the date of his filing. If it is TRUE love, then it can wait-right? I've been waiting for the past 3 years for my husband to "commit" to THIS marriage. Just one more Q: If i just want to vent or update what's going on (may help someone else, you never know)should I continue to post under this thread, start a new thread, post under my name only? How do I do that? THanks everyone! MD


BS/ME 47 Met on blind date
WH 46(Alcoholic,drugs?)
DS1:18 DS2:15
1st A EA9/07 PA10/07 NC11/07
2nd A EA/PA-10/2010
Found out- 11/20/2010
He moved out-1/1/2011 same apt.cmplx as OW(&her kids)
PlanB-1/1/11(broken)
NEW PB-2/11 Taking it one day at a time


There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who say to God, "Thy will be done" and those to whom God says, "Alright then, have it your way." ~C .S.Lewis


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Originally Posted By: mitzie
I know the alcoholism is bad and although he is a "fun" drunk(think goodtime charly with a harley) that is not a lifestyle I want or enjoy nor do i want our children copying. I unfortunatly live in a community property state, and cannot change the locks on the door.


It is not illegal in any state in this union to change your locks. You can kick him out and change your locks today! If he has a problem then the onus is on HIM to go get a court order to get back in. So far we have never had a WS who wanted to go before a judge and explain WHY the locks were changed in the first place. grin

In one such case in the UK, board member DRDMD's wife complained to her atty about the locks being changed. His atty simply replied with his statement to her atty AND IT WAS QUICKLY DROPPED. His WW claimed she wanted to get in so could collect things, so they told her to submit a list and it would be setting in the garage for her.

Quote:
DRDMD:

"I cannot in good faith communicate with her while she behaves in this way. If I did communicate with her, I would be inclined to shout and scream and/or reproach her for the hurt she is causing me. I do not believe this will be any better for our relationship than the cessation of communication I have instigated.

snip

The main reason I cannot communicate with Lesley is that she is having an affair. She is sleeping with (and spending all her spare time with) another man. As a result, I feel severe emotional pain every time I speak to her or see her."



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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mitzie Offline OP
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I am not so sure about him being dependent upon me. For what? Emotional needs - met by her. Money - he controls it all. Sex - her, again. Place to stay - his own, or her apt.I really don't think he's dependent on me for ANYTHING! I must add that he went and his phone taken off our family plan and put on his own acct so I couldn't snoop on phone records, uses computer at work and basically has abondoned his family. He said he doesn't like anything to do with our home/neighborhood and wishes it could be sold tomorrow. THIS from the man who chose where we would live and took such pride in his home. As far as him quitting drinking a little back story: His father was a MEAN drunk (from what little I have been told)and terrorized his family. His dad quit drinking 20 years ago, but his personality only slighty changed. co-dependent mother. His mother had an affair with a co-worker 17 years ago which resulted in father relocating through work to another state. Mother followed, they are still together. He has medical problems and she is self-righteous, bible quoting, bitter old woman. My husband doesn't think he has a problem because he is not mean or violent and doesn't drink hard liquor. My husbands state of mind seemed to change very quickly when his father recently had surgery and I started a new higher position job. I think he looked at his mom and dad and saw what an unhappy life they really have, and how much unhappiness it has produced for everyone in the family(there was a first marriage for dad w/children) and he didn't want that.He's told me twice that he just can't see us staying the way we are for another 20 years. I agreed,the first time,agreeing thinking I was agreeging for the BOTH of us to work on this marriage - NOT ONE OF US LEAVE FOR ANOTHER! WHen he said it again yesterday, I was kind of taken off guard. BTW, changing the locks, couldn't happen, kids would just let him in when I'm at work, they still want him in their lives. It doesn't bother me when he's here, I just feel like I'm in limbo when he is.


BS/ME 47 Met on blind date
WH 46(Alcoholic,drugs?)
DS1:18 DS2:15
1st A EA9/07 PA10/07 NC11/07
2nd A EA/PA-10/2010
Found out- 11/20/2010
He moved out-1/1/2011 same apt.cmplx as OW(&her kids)
PlanB-1/1/11(broken)
NEW PB-2/11 Taking it one day at a time


There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who say to God, "Thy will be done" and those to whom God says, "Alright then, have it your way." ~C .S.Lewis


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Are you going to do a MB Plan, or one of your own design?

Choose.


Quote:

I am not so sure about him being dependent upon me. For what?


Depending on you to have weak boundaries.

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Think outside the box to get him to leave. Do your very best to brainstorm this.

If that fails, far better for you to leave, even with all the many potential consequences, legal and otherwise, than to stay and suffer a potentially catastrophic emotional breakdown.

You and your health come first. That said, there is usually a way to make this work that involves him leaving, not you.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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He is dependant on you. He just doesn't realize it. If WH is a boozer and OW is a boozer it's only a matter of time before he hits bottom. When he does he will then realize how dependent he was on you for the only thing that got him this far in life...YOUR STABILITY AND DEVOTION. That realization will take a while and may or may not compell him to stop drinking. In the meantime, dark plan B. When the realization occurs and he comes crawling back be very careful and stay in plan B unless you get a commitment to absolutely no contact and no alchohol. If you can wait for that...good. Just keep on following the great advice the vets will give you. If you can't or you don't think it's worth the risk...move on.


Don't pray for God to guide your footsteps unless you are willing to move your feet


Me BH 55, WW 40, M 12 yrs, 3 Boys 19, 10 & 8.
Separated Sept 08
DDay Dec 08
Plan A Mar 09
Plan B 16 Nov 09
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Originally Posted By: mitzie
BTW, changing the locks, couldn't happen, kids would just let him in when I'm at work, they still want him in their lives. It doesn't bother me when he's here, I just feel like I'm in limbo when he is.


That is easily resolved. Tell them NOT TO. If you are going to go into Plan B he should never be in the house. He can pick the kids up and take them elsewhere.

If he doesn't bother you when he is in your house and is in active affair, then what is the point of all this? Why not just conintinue to enable him while he carries on his affair? crazy


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you all. He did get an apt. Moving Jan 2. Same apt complex as her. Funny thing is he didn't think of his minor child in all this (the other is over 18 but still @ home). WHen I asked him about sleeping arrangements he thought I meant with HER!!!LOL!!!(their thinking process really is screwed up, huh?) He was shocked that he will have his son for weekend visits. MY WH only gets one week-end off a month, and guess what? THAT will be the weekend of visitation.And I will stipulate NO drinking during that weekend. He had no idea. As if he would get this apt and just shuck all responsibilities to his kids. On his weekends off now (he actually gets Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun & Mon off) he pretty much does what he wants with the nights ending in getting drunk at the social club, not anymore.
I am planning on going dark. When I said it doesn't bother me he's in house I guess what I mean it kind of feels like were a family, but were not really, are we? I KNOW that. It's hard to let go and see someone ruin their life. I know I have to in order to save the marriage.
Christmas being so close, don't want any bad memories for the kids. My WH hates the holidays, dad always ruined it for him & sister, no money but lots of booze around.
THANK you all for letting me understand what you meant by depending on me. I guess you all are right (aren't you guys always right?!)he is depending on me to weak. It's funny, but I think because this is the second time around I won't be. I kinda know what to expect. I have a hard road ahead. THankfully I won't be alone. You all & GOD. I really think that's enough for now. grin


BS/ME 47 Met on blind date
WH 46(Alcoholic,drugs?)
DS1:18 DS2:15
1st A EA9/07 PA10/07 NC11/07
2nd A EA/PA-10/2010
Found out- 11/20/2010
He moved out-1/1/2011 same apt.cmplx as OW(&her kids)
PlanB-1/1/11(broken)
NEW PB-2/11 Taking it one day at a time


There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who say to God, "Thy will be done" and those to whom God says, "Alright then, have it your way." ~C .S.Lewis


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Originally Posted By: mitzie
Thank you all. He did get an apt. Moving Jan 2. Same apt complex as her. Funny thing is he didn't think of his minor child in all this (the other is over 18 but still @ home). WHen I asked him about sleeping arrangements he thought I meant with HER!!!LOL!!!(their thinking process really is screwed up, huh?) He was shocked that he will have his son for weekend visits. MY WH only gets one week-end off a month, and guess what? THAT will be the weekend of visitation.And I will stipulate NO drinking during that weekend. He had no idea. As if he would get this apt and just shuck all responsibilities to his kids. On his weekends off now (he actually gets Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun & Mon off) he pretty much does what he wants with the nights ending in getting drunk at the social club, not anymore.
I am planning on going dark. When I said it doesn't bother me he's in house I guess what I mean it kind of feels like were a family, but were not really, are we? I KNOW that. It's hard to let go and see someone ruin their life. I know I have to in order to save the marriage.
Christmas being so close, don't want any bad memories for the kids. My WH hates the holidays, dad always ruined it for him & sister, no money but lots of booze around.
THANK you all for letting me understand what you meant by depending on me. I guess you all are right (aren't you guys always right?!)he is depending on me to weak. It's funny, but I think because this is the second time around I won't be. I kinda know what to expect. I have a hard road ahead. THankfully I won't be alone. You all & GOD. I really think that's enough for now. grin


Be sure and get it in writing that there are to be no overnight guests of opposite sex while your child is with him for visitation.

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mitzie Offline OP
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THANK YOU!! I forgot about THAT ONE! WH just stopped on way to work to talk to oldest son about getting a car (his engine blew on the old heap we had given him). Already started with the "I don't have any money" stuff. Meanwhile I know he HAS money, spending it on her I'm sure. Ho's aint cheap (at least that's what I hear, would't know since I'm a L-A-D-Y!)


BS/ME 47 Met on blind date
WH 46(Alcoholic,drugs?)
DS1:18 DS2:15
1st A EA9/07 PA10/07 NC11/07
2nd A EA/PA-10/2010
Found out- 11/20/2010
He moved out-1/1/2011 same apt.cmplx as OW(&her kids)
PlanB-1/1/11(broken)
NEW PB-2/11 Taking it one day at a time


There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who say to God, "Thy will be done" and those to whom God says, "Alright then, have it your way." ~C .S.Lewis


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Originally Posted By: mitzie
THANK YOU!! I forgot about THAT ONE! WH just stopped on way to work to talk to oldest son about getting a car (his engine blew on the old heap we had given him). Already started with the "I don't have any money" stuff. Meanwhile I know he HAS money, spending it on her I'm sure. Ho's aint cheap (at least that's what I hear, would't know since I'm a L-A-D-Y!)


I hope you aren't waiting until after the holidays to file. Strike now while he isn't expecting it and before HE has he chance to file.

I filed for divorce the day I busted my now XWH. My attorney filed for an emergency hearing for temp support but it still took about 3 weeks to get a court date. I was a SAHM with a 9 year old. The night before the hearing he and I worked out a temp agreement that was VERY much in my favor...he didn't want to go in and have the judge hear the sordid details....I didn't beg or plead...I just told him what I needed to continue to run the house and take care of our son...stressed that it was only temporary until the divorce was final....and told him we could avoid the hearing the next day if he would just go to my attorney's office and sign our agreement. He did it. 6 months later he had an attorney and went into court with little shame and got a better settlement than he deserved....but I had 6-8 months of little changing in my life and our son's life.

If he is really leaving....it will probably be easier and better if you file AFTER he moves out. Just go see your attorney and get your ducks in a row....play it cool---don't let your WH know...and then BAM! Hit him.

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Filing for D, if you do that, doesn't mean that you have to hurry through it. It does protect you, and you can take your sweet time. If you so choose, you can also drop the proceeding if WH earns his title of recovering addict, former wayward.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Sorry to see that you are back here...

Have you read HNHN yet? You will see that you do meet many of his needs and she meets some. When you plan B, the OW has to meet all of WH's needs, which of course is impossible as the BS's aren't replaceable!

Most likely you meet the needs of family, domestic stability, counts on you to take care of the kids.

Don't accept crumbs when he feels like showing up in the home, you deserve more! If he has a problem with drinking, do you think you enable him? Looks like from this view from the top that you probably do. Then it wouldn't take a stretch to say that if you did that with the drinking, you are enabling his A.

Own your part and try to be strong. It is going to take bravery, strength and resolve for you to try to save this...otherwise you end up back here again, or worse, emotionally broken down...it is hard, but everyone here will help support you!

Take care,

ba


Me-49, WH-51
Married 02/1983 yrs, Sons - 27, 26, 20
1st PA - 1985, 1st known EA - 1992/1993
2nd PA - 06/02 to 11/04
1st D-day - 09/03, D-day 2 - 10/04 D-day 3 05/08
NC e-mail - 11/04- it wasn't real
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