Hi Pepperband,

I think you were right about the game of chicken. As well, I just read the link. I think it was destructive not only to our relationship, him but myself. I realize even it was truly open, I was in a fog just like other affairs. I was in that fog till the minute that BH found out and was lucky to be out of it that second.

I am not saying my actions were okay regardless of how our relationship was before. But obviously something was not perfect with the relationship and myself that led to this open arrangement occuring, I broke the relationship and now suffer the consequences. To have believed I could have maintained a sex partner without emotions was a bad idea. As BH said after, our relationship started purely on sex and simple friendship.

I feel after this mess some days my self worth is quite low but I am working on it. If I can't look myself in the mirror every day and feel good about myself, why would BH want to be with me...

I just keep telling myself it will okay and keep going at it...never give up when there is an ounce of hope. That hope is that he is still here and there is something I can do...

I am sorry but I today I am all out of hope. i am hysterial crying at home...I left my husband at the singing room. He told me we made excellent progress as friends but as wife/ or companion nothing. That it was not my fault...that it was because he was never really ready for a relationship he never wants to marry again or have anything serious. During the 16 months I thought we could repair he wouldn't do anything to hurt me because he would rather hurt himself than me. But he doesn't love me, he doesn't want to be commited, he wants to be alone and I gave him that excuse he wanted...how he felt all along and I don't know what to do...I tried..I did everything I could and he doesn't love me, he doesn't want me..
I totally failed and feel terrible...
I mean what do I do when the other person doesn't desire anyone or a relationship of any sorts with anyone...

I just feel terrible because it is 4am I am sitting at home crying my eyes out after what i though was a hopeful week...

LL,
Sorry for your pain. I would think you should take what he can give and right now he can only give you friendship. Things may change over time - nothing is cast in stone - remain his friend - try to be his best friend and over time who knows.

You didn't totally fail - he's accepting you as friend and since you are the wayward - that is much to be thankful for.

Gg

LL, trust me, I know it's hard. You want your H back, you see the glimmers of hope and it builds up these expectations within you. You can't place any expectations on your H - none. I kept doing that in recovery, time and time again and each time I'd build myself up and crash back down to earth. Those expectations and my Taker jumping out in frustration at recovery not happening fast enough (as if I have any right to dictate the speed of R for my BH) did more harm than good to our recovery.

You are very early in recovery. You're not failing, but it takes time for your H to see the changes in you, to believe they are genuine. Accept what he can give you right now. Like I said, I know it's hard! Some days - lately for me, every day - hurts like he77 but so far I have managed to keep going. So do you.

My H has moved out and right now has every intention of divorcing me. But hope is the one thing I cling to. It's the only thing I have. Some days it is no more than a tiny spark. I can't bear to listen to well-meaning folks who try to stomp that little spark out. Don't give up hope. If he's still there, in some form or fashion, you can still have hope.

I am curious - are you nihonjin?

I am not nihonjin.

Thanks for the hope. I am trying my best. It is a little difficult at times.

It's just that my husband has had lots of commitment problems in the past in our relationship where he mention us breaking up or that he would have to end the relationship (moving for a job, taking time for travel and because of these plans he was thinking about we would break up). These plans never panned out.

So what he is telling me that it's not about me. It's the fact he just never wants to be in a relationship again, be married, etc. That he felt this way for a long time but didn't want to hurt me. That he wants to live the rest of his life alone. He says he is not angry at me. He says that we've made friendship progress and yes I shouldn't have made expectations knowing the situation. I shouldn't have expected things to change in a week. My expectations gave me the painful blow not him...

Thank you for the recent posts. I am trying to take all teh advice and follow plan a the best I can. i think I did a good job following it until last night when we out with friends. Friends kept watching us, observing us. Friends kept asking me if I was okay. He was telling everyone who asked that we were getting a divorce in the future....So that didn't help me.

I will just follow plan a and see where it takes me. And prepare for the worst as well...

So I think I've made progress even though it is friendship. H has been more positive towards me and kind, etc. He still tells me we are just friends and nothing more. That we have separated but not legally.

We still do things like share a bed, have showers together. Eat breakfast and dinner together.

However, we had a talk yesterday and today. We said neither one of us would have a one night stand or get a bf/gf regardless of him withdrawing and not thinking this is a marriage anymore. I think he still cares because he tried to tell me he doesn't care if I have one night stands at this point, he just doesn't want to know about it( which is exactly what he said before this whole affair thing...so I know deep down somewhere he does care).
I made it clear to him that neither one of us would do such a thing and that it wasn't going to be like we turn back on our words and just keep it from one another (even though I have shown him otherwise in the past by having an affair). He agreed and seemed fine that we would not have sexual or emotional relationship with anyone else as long as we were living together and still legally married.

I tried to get him to see a marriage counselor but he doesn't think it's useful if he doesn't want to try, make this work or cares about it, he wants to see it fail right now...he said he refuses to be open to my efforts of making this work. But I am hoping in time he will change when he sees that we can have a healthy relationship again where I don't hurt him, and he can feel secured and loved.

Even though he says all of that stuff, I asked him if he was okay knowing that we would delay signing/filing divorce papers until 2012 he told me it would depend how our relationship by then... so maybe positive sign...somewhere there is that small glimmer of hope...

So I am trying to stay positive and be hopeful....

Thanks for the replies and advice/tips/help that have been given to me in this situation. I realize that as a wayward I have the one who has done wrong to the person I claimed to have loved the most...that I am lucky that he still around despite what he says and feels right now and for the past bit.

I just feel lost sometimes being in a country without my close friends and family ....

I just have to maintain these changes and show him it's not short term. I am trying to remain positive, as long as he is around me and living with me...there is something I can do and not all hope is lost especially when the papers have not been filed ...I won't let him push me away.

He just told me he resents me and can never trust me again. He won't go to marriage counseling he got angry about it and said that we are not a couple.

He said it can't work...do I just give up?

He is not open to me and hasn't been...he said he had been thinking about divorce for a while...

Honestly, I think I have lost him forever:( I broke him and our marriage.

Not so fast there, girlie. I may have missed it if someone else brought it up, but Dear Husband is sounding AWWWFFULLLY wayward to me. Have you considered the possibility that he is having an affair? Because even if you hadn't had the affair, a husband acting like that would put me on a LEVEL 10 RED ALERT for having his own affair.

He said that I can't change the past and the hurt/anger/resentment...

He says he sees me trying, that I have matured and learned from my mistakes. But he says he is angry, resents me and doesn't want to give a second chance to break him again.

I have doing so much but he won't give mea second chance. I know everyone said that I should be happy for friendship but I'm not. I broke it. It's unfortunate I found all this great marriage resources but he says it's great and too bad we couldn't have found it sooner. That the affair just was the straw the broke the camel's back. He won't let me in...what to do?

If I do the Harley coaching do you think it will be helpful when he shut me out? I jsut don't want to spend nearly 200 when I am strapped on cash but if it can provide me something to work with...

What do I do? I feel desperate and lost...

if you love something let it go, if it comes then it was meant to be...


We talked more...he doesn't want to work it out and says he is over me. Or at least he shall find out if he is really over me.

He says with time there will be forgiveness to move past this but without me. That the resentment and anger will fade. He said what made him feel secure was the fact he was the only man I had been with and now that was gone and could never be replaced.

I feel so stupid.

Now all I can hope for is he will come back to me after time...

LL, instead of focusing on how to change your BHs mind, why don't you work on yourself.

Honestly, if your BH had come here, telling us your story, we would be telling him that he should think about a D. That is because you two have not been married long, and from what I remember, you don't have children together. Also, with the attitude that you have right now where you MUST change HIS mind shows that you just don't get it yet.

See, you hurt him. I know that you think you get it, but you really can't. He is bleeding because you tore off his leg, and you are asking him to get up and walk. He CAN'T right now. So, where does that leave you? Stop feeling sorry for yourself that YOU ruined your marriage and work on YOU. YOU need to become a better person if you are ever going to be happy again. Even if THIS marriage ends, you can use what you have learned here and have a new happy one. Being here isn;t a waste of time or energy UNLESS you don't actually change.

You need to do the work. Clean up your side of the fence and stop trying to get your BH to join you.

I know I shouldn't expect anything. Just changing things not love busting, trying to fill up love bank but he he has walls up which I understand. I am trying to change myself but I don't know if that is enough. Being a independent not needy person. Being strong, working on my self esteem, etc....

He even said that if he happens to meet another woman who he could long term potential he would go for it....which is why I am scared.

I really want to save this despite what horrible thing I did...

LL123,

I agree with Scotland, it's time to step back and let your husband heal a little, he is in shock and doesn't know what he believes anymore, you have destroyed his belief and trust systems he has lived by.
Right now I would just try to Plan A him, look good, smell good, no love busters and be understanding and compassionate about his feelings..
Even if he moves out you can still get back together. You need to show him that you have changed and that you are worth giving another chance, that might not happen right away........it takes a lot of time to heal from this kind of betrayal.

If he is not responding to you in conversations then do little things for him that he will notice, ever so small.........you will slowly turn that hurt he feels into hope of a new person...........you...........
Patience and strength right now, remember in any marriage sometimes one person has to take the reins and be the strongest for a while even though you are alone fixing things............one person can turn things around, have you read the Love Dare yet, or 5 languages of Love............
Remember that he isn't the one that was out of love you were.........he still loves you, he is afraid of being hurt again, a second blow is what all of us fear......

So even though he talks about seeing in the far future moving on with someone else in the future that I should give him some space. He said he doesn't want to deal with the anger, betrayal, lack of trust, and having to be in a relationship, adapting to being a relationship sometime in the future. He is not seeing anyone now...but he did say if he met someone with long term potential he would go for it (but no flings). He is not actively seeking anyone. After this divorce talk, he has been having nights apart again. That worries me but again what right do I have after what I did...

So give him some space and time to heal. Back off. Be patient and strong. Maybe try and get my hands on those books. Plan A the best I can. And hope that he turns it around?

I know I will never understand his pain and thoughts and feelings. That I totally ripped his heart out, stomped on it and sent it down a garbage disposal. I just wish he wouldn't want a divorce...but I guess I will just hope that in time my changes will him that I am trying, they are true and that I can be trusted and someone he wants to be with...

If you truly turn yourself around and treat him with respect and honesty and you must show remorse for your actions and never blame him for any part of it, You must be compassionate and understanding with his feelings..
When I found out about my husband's affair, I took a strong stance but loving, I set him free and when I did that he was forced to self reflect instead of blame me for his affair, I think without me pressuring him and me showing him that I was accountable for my part in the marriage breakdown and me showing him that I loved him and if that meant being with someone else I would let him go.......
Our sit are different but I think the freedom in a loving way is what your husband has to self reflect about, he is mad right now so I wouldn't take to much of what he says to heart..........I felt the same way, it took probably 4 months or so for us to decide if we would try again, for him because of the OW and me because of the betrayal and the fear of being hurt again.........
It really takes patience, look at the big picture, the future together and don't get hung up on today and the words spoken during this trying time........
every person is different and he is still probably at the stage where he is still trying to hurt you a little for what you did, don't take it personally, there will be a lot of rejection..............but you can do, you have to be the stronger one right now............
hang in there, show him the woman you can be ........the life that is worth having.

He can't see that far ahead. I doubt if he can see 15 minutes from now.

You can't wall him in with your expectations; he has every right and reason to leave you and file for D. You gave him that reason. Staying close to those who hurt us so badly is not a natural reaction.

You really should take each and every moment you get with him, and every word, as a gift - he could instead erase you, but you get these little glimpses... each in and of itself a small chance.

The only way you will ever be believable is to be consistent, and to let go of your expectations with your words and actions.

Both your words and your actions are meaningless right now, only consistency and time will prove otherwise to him.

Thanks for the insightful thoughts and such. I will take it one day at time.

Take what I can get.

Expect nothing in return but I can hope to myself without pushing it on to him.

Be consistent with my actions, words and changes.

Be patient and waiting...not pushing.

Even after all the insight and stuff. How do I know if it is really over? That we should file for a D and give him the ability to truly move on as he talks about.

He says he has forgiven me but he just can't forget what I have done.

He is already making plans for the future without me. I can tell he is sad about leaving it as we talk about the mistakes we've made and how we are unable to make it work. But he keeps telling me he's been in love before and had to let go, that it gets better over time.

So should I let him go and not torment him any longer? I'm still in Plan A doing all the things, and of course self improvement on my end, working out, eating right, self esteem exercises, making individual goals, etc.

He just wants a friends with benefits and that is all while we are still living under the same roof.

I know I can't change how he thinks and feels. He has every right to feel the way he does but I get the feeling that he may not come around. Seems like those who recovered their marriage had both people willing to work on it, even if it was not 100%. I am not going to force him to work on something painful or that he doesn't want to, but I am scared it will be like this forever. I think he's really stepped away and I'll just live with the consequences of my action and learn from it.

I am sad and scared about all of this. I have this sinking feeling in my stomach, my heart breaks

He said as time went by after a month separation after the discovery, he felt it just wasn't working over time. Or maybe it's his way of dealing with things?

How long do I plan A before I let him go and let him find happiness elsewhere?

Sorry I am just quite conflicted. I am trying my best to be patient and strong. It's just the sinking feeling that he will not come around, that the damage has already been done by me. I do believe it is worth saving but I don't know if I can ...

I am trying to look forward but I don't think my spouse is joining me.....:(

i apologized for hurting him. He says he believes me and that I am still love him. He said he was sorry for being a bad husband but I tried to tell him that the problem wasn't his. It broke my heart. He said he was never good at relationships. That he had a mask on all this time.