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In all seriousness though...

The issue isn't the computor...it's the affair.

As a BS [nonaffairee] you can't actually make their choices for them.

Unhooking the connection will not end the affair.

That is how people get lost in power struggles.

This is where ~consequences~ come into discussion...and they are nearly endless.

A likely consequence of an affairee refusing to stop either the affair or blatantly dismissing the request of their spouse is further loss of love.

The BS not ready to enforce a "no triangle" boundary will likely be more ready than they were before.

You are so right on this.

How can you help a fearful BS to get to the point where they will enforce that no triangle boundary?

It is so distressing to watch a BS struggle w/ this.

~ Marsh


[b]Knowledge is power.

A BS who is unwilling to become knowledgeable and skilled is one who is unwilling to defend themselves.

People who fail to defend themselves get slaughtered...they are at the mery of the merciless.

A BS who becomes knowledgeable and skilled becomes prepared for the battle and does not NEED other people to *get* them anywhere.

A BS who does not become prepared in this way will toss in the waves of emotional decisionmaking.

Even if you got them to that place it would be your new job to keep them there.

b]


This is where I messed up big!! I did not know about boundaries when I married and I made it my job to "teach" my husband what to do. And resented him for it greatly, but I had rationalized this behavior. I thought he was worth the effort...good guy...just growing...how judgemental in the first place and now I have found out he has a sex addiction and he never really wanted to go out and learn on his own. I was another good reason not to.

Now I have put up fort knox fences and I do not want to do anything that would be giving him information or help of any kind. I feel used up and I refuse to be anything that resembles the actions of a mother. No accountability no nothing. It is all on his plate. I have to add though that I did not just drop it there like a bomb. There was a gradual process.


Timeline and some of my story http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3177198 Schoolbus explains better than I can here... http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3182348
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Possibly a moment of clarity for me.

A boundary is a fence that establishes what is ok and not ok for me. What I will allow in and what I will not. Also it simply establishes what is mine and what is not.

I realized something it provides.

It removes fear.

When I say “I will not participate in X” I am stating my boundary and as long as I truly mean it, then I have removed my fear of what will happen if the boundary is crossed. No consequence. It is not my job nor my property to provide consequence. It is my job to control ME, so if I state a boundary and it is crossed, I have the tool in place to enforce my boundary.

I can not control others so I should not fear what they may or may not do. If they do it, that is life, and I have my boundary to protect me. I may not like what has happened, but I have my boundary and that is that.

Patriot - you got it, perfectly.


~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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*BUMP*


BW-me 40; WH-39
M-17yrs
DSs-15,12,9
DDay- 6/28/08
WH files D 11/21/08; moves out 12/18/08
WHs D petition dismissed 11/4/09 due to Lack of Grounds
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*BUMP* for Velvet

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BUMP for Wheels_Spinning (and everyone else)
kiss



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Bump

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BUMP for Jealousy

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BUMP for myself. ^____^

I think that my question suits this topic very well. Forgive me if I don't have time to read so many pages but I read the first few.

My question is:
How can I recognize manipulation tactics at work and what can I do to stop them in their tracks or prevent them?

Oops, that's a 2 part question... o^_^o

I ask because I KNOW that I am manipulated in my marriage. With my distance from it during the A when I had my own apartment I could see it much clearer. Now that I'm back in the relationship it's harder to notice when it happens. I need to learn about those boundaries I've heard mentioned (What are those, lol?) but I don't know how. I can see them much clearer after an argument or discussion or when I use to replay events to my girl-friend.

My H has dropped an ultimatum on me now. I have a time limit to get myself/us into appropriate parental role models or I will no longer have ANY option of having children with H.

This one was kind of an easy one to spot. /sarcasm

It feels like he's using my own wants against me. I have ambitions of being thinner and more active and healthy, more attractive, a better employee at work, a better friend, sister, daughter, etc... Some of those I accomplished during my solo 6-7 month living arrangements, the thinner, healthier, more attractive, better employee part. (For some reason I managed to make it to work on time MUCH more often.) It could be due to the 50% increase in my antidepressant dosage when I informed my doctor of my impending circumstances at the beginning of the A, it could be that I've never been on my own and was finally living on my own terms for no one but myself...

In any case that person is no longer here. I've gained back all the weight I lost, am [----] <-this close to being fired for tardies, I have no ambition or drive. My doctor and I are playing with medication cocktails (I knew my current dosage was dropping in effectiveness and I waited WAY too long before asking for help).

Anyway I think that my H is manipulative and knows how to get what he wants out of people. Most times that's not a bad thing, he's a great sales manager and his employees love him (bad choice of words there), but he uses his tricks on me too and I don't see it until after the fact. How do I learn to put my foot down, but gentle so as to not cause more waves but calm the waters instead?


-= Phoenix
I am BW-25
WH-27
Married since 7/07
A from 1/09-7/09

"One can't complain. I have my friends. Someone spoke to me only yesterday."-Eeyore
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Phee...nix

Love seeing one of my favorite old threads bumped up. smile


You asked a lot of questions in there and I see by your signature that you (and your spouse) are quite young. I would like to point out that the poster Noodle, on this very thread was in her mid to late twenties when she posted here as a betrayed wife. Thus, my recommendation would be to read closely what she said on this thread, then click her name and click "view posts" to see some of the other over 3000 posts she's made on this forum and from there...you'll have a pretty good idea how to think in many situations by asking yourself...

"What would Noodle do or say?"

In addition, getting the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend (you can probably get a used copy on Amazon super cheap or your local library should have it).

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I am glad Mr. W mentioned Boundaries. I think it aligns with MB very well.

You know, I come at this from a slightly different angle, and maybe it will help you with your H. I am having to rethink my own boundaries as far as other people in my life besides DH. But I am very guilty at times of going beyond just having/enforcing MY boundaries and into trying to twist or manipulate someone else into what I want them to do or stop doing. I hate to admit that. For example, my mom likes to be all up in my life....way up in it. For me to not respond, redirect the conversation, draw the "I do not wish to discuss this" line is a boundary. For me to try to control her response or guilt her into feeling bad for making me feel bad is not.

It does sound like your DH is manipulating with the kid stuff.....but he will probably not see that. So trying to change his response or feel differently probably won't work. And if you are like me, I have a weakness for wanting people to FEEL differently, especially if I care about them or really respect their opinions. I am learning that I can enforce the boundary of not responding to certain things.....but I can't control whether or not they are said or what the person who says them thinks of me.

And if the person Mr. W is referring to has shared what you are going through, learning from their learning makes a lot of sense. Have you read Fall In Love, Stay In Love? It has more really good stuff in it (to me) than any of the other books, except maybe SAA.

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Thanks I'll will definetly (sp?) look up those books and those threads. I appreciate the advice. ^___^


-= Phoenix
I am BW-25
WH-27
Married since 7/07
A from 1/09-7/09

"One can't complain. I have my friends. Someone spoke to me only yesterday."-Eeyore
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Okay, Noodle is awesome, thanks for the advice about reading those posts. I'm glad that in some places I wasn't around when these were originally posted because I could have gotten myself a bit irritated at some points.

I went ahead and ordered the MB workbook and I need to find the boundary one you suggested. My managers at work are finally realizing that the multiple times I have asked for help in my position were not for my health and are now seeing fit to coach me, after 10 months of ignoring me. (So I feel more confident that my career will improve, if I'm not fired for how poorly I've been doing up until now.) My moods are improving and I have more energy and drive so I'm optimistic about reaching my goals for myself. H is still moody and I'm trying to not let that bring me down when he refuses to talk about it and just mopes. I pick up others emotions it seems, especially when it's someone I care about.


-= Phoenix
I am BW-25
WH-27
Married since 7/07
A from 1/09-7/09

"One can't complain. I have my friends. Someone spoke to me only yesterday."-Eeyore
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bump


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Bumping to find again smile

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Bumping to find again smile

Great...now I won't be able to find it where I put it.

lol


This is my most referenced/linked thread.

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