You're missing the whole point. It isn't the color of your WW's skirt or what specific thing she did that decides whether she is unique. It's the mindset. Yes, there are many people here who had (or were) WW's who responded to accountability for their actions by pitching a b*tchy little hissy fit (AKA meeting with a lawyer) and who never planned to see the OM again who was in a public position that might get "tarnished" if any9one found out. So you can keep being a wimp with your wife and purposely stubborn here.....or you can LISTEN.

Honestly, I don't understanding asking question you know the answers to and then refusing to follow data-driven and time tested advice that has worked for hundreds of people in a variety of marriages.

Your wife is not a super special gifted professor with a unique slant on adultery. She is just like any wayward who doesn't want to be told what to do. Period. I used to BE wayward.....I KNOW.

Please do not call your exposure an "exposure" there are real BS's here who are looking for help and we do not want them to read your thread and think it is ok to half [censored] exposure.

Yep yep & yep. A half-baked exposure can do more damage than no exposure at all.

There are a lot of BS's who have picked and chosen from the MB menu, and that's a recipe for disaster. From being afraid to expose, to thinking the wayward's job is more important than their marriage, to being afraid another angry betrayed spouse might just dance a jig on their wayward spouse's head - we've seen all the reasons for refusing to follow a time-proven plan to save their marriages. Those reluctant betrayeds will typically try a half-committed attempt to save their M, and are often the recipients of divorce papers.

All because they didn't want to anger their wayward spouse.

Well mine said we were done, she didn't want either one of us. Not sure if she saw a lawyer, but we were done. And now we're not. Still on the road, and I will take all the advice I can from these good people. And follow it. But I did full exposure, and WW is still dealing with fallout.

You won't see me being sarcastic with you, I respect the position you are in, and I feel for all the BHs on here. This is the worst experience of my life, and I am trying to pay it forward.

Yes, I agree but isn't that normal at this stage of withdrawal. Isn't the objective here to buy time so Plan A and Protection can help build momentum for future stages of recovery.

The title of my thread was chosen to try and confess that I must not have been doing something right in the M regarding EN. I want the recovery to end someplace better than the state of the M was before the A started but that's not the objective short term. I guess I'm confused about dealing with withdrawal. She's trying to blame the M instead of herself and whatever EN I was not fulfilling so I thought I was buying time until she was came to that realization??

You're enabling her to keep that mindset with your inaction. You are coddling her. You are taking the blame for her. That isn't helping her....at all.

Go back and read EVERY article here and then buy SAA and read it cover to cover. Plan A is not plan doormat.

I guess what everyone is trying to get across, is we all want you to get to the same place. Yes use the carrot. But they want you to use more stick.

You think you did, you think you maxed out what you could "get away with" in terms of stick. You see a piece of oak that you used, we see a popsicle stick.

PlsNotAgain, I re-read many of your threads. I could quote them, but for the sake of time I hope that it is okay for me to paraphrase.

First, you say that she fears being abandoned. I don't think she fears that. You have proven that you are unwilling to tell her "enough is enough, I want out." She knows that. I think YOU are the one who is afraid of abandonment. This is why you always choose the path of least resistance. And I am not talking about the exposure - I am talking about giving her space, trusting her implicitly after she has proven untrustworthy, etc.

Next, you say that her childhood resulted in a bad M and the ensuing affairs. I call BS on this. Many of us here have had alcoholic parents, abusive relationships, abandonment, rape, murder, death of children, etc. Her childhood is a bogus excuse. In fact, she has the ability to produce a happy M inside her, as do you. And it has nothing to do with childhood. In fact, if she really was afraid of being abandoned, you would think she would work hard to keep you. Your theory (or is it her therapist's theory) just doesn't hold water.

You mention that your downward spiral in your M was caused in part to failure of both of you to fill each other's EN's. This did not contribute to it. It is the MAIN reason for it. It led to her A's, not the other childhood issues.

One of the recommendations on MB is that couples spend at least 15 hours per week together. I have experienced, as have some of the seasoned vets that whenever we stop spending as much time with our spouses, the quality of our M goes down. Fulfilling each other's EN's, avoiding LB's, putting in place boundaries, etc. is a proven plan for a successful M, and is one of the things that this site is all about.

If she thinks SAA is crazy, perhaps HNHN would be a better read for her. HNHN is more about building M's. I would also think that counseling with the Harley's would be your last shot to build the kind of M you desire. The road you are on hasn't worked before and will not work again. Given her space does not lead to falling in love again. Only being together does that.

And as for the initial question in your thread, yes you can recover what you never had. And it is awesome.

I have the SAA. The way I read page 70/71 is that this withdrawal period is not the time to create conflict - but simply to stay together and wait out the lift of the fog "It was important that they avoid anger, disrespect, or demands while they were together. They were to simply keep each other company for a few weeks (withdrawal) and avoid doing anything that would make matters worse."

I read that as "this is not the time to be agressive". What should I be doing?

Find the quote on that one. I don't think she fears abandonment - I think she would rather be alone and so does our therapist. She prefers to flee than confront. I've said that often. She fears intimacy!!! She runs from conflict. If I create it, she's gone and happily so because she can feel she is running from a guy that just wants conflict. For good? - I don't know. But she is one click from filing signed D papers. Why would I want to confront now during withdrawal just to watch that click?

And I do fear abandonment - absolutely. Througout life. Lost Dad, Mom, brother, friends, pets, . . . children gone. This stage of life is one lost bond after another. Now the A. Then D. Doesn't every BS at this point?

And it is because of our childhoods. Neither of us was ever good enough for our parents and told so often more by actions than words. Horrible for both. You never feel good enough to deserve love so you don't trust the love you get and you are limited in you ability to love others intimatly. I think that's a pretty universally held truth about children of alcoholic and abusers.

All I want to know is what to do now facing what I have to face in withdrawal. Going back on old threads is not helping that much. I have a WW with NC in withdrawal dealing with that roller coaster of flee and become a single nun or stay married and screw it up again. That is my situation. Help that, don't try and redefine it to fit some formula you do have a solution for. I see and agree with SAA principles after withdrawal - I'm just trying to make it to there.

R51 - Specifically, what more "stick" is not being used that should be used in this phase - withdrawal? Dont go back to that E word. I'll quote every line in SAA that talks to the objective of E and E has accomplished that objective and started the clock of withdrawal (with the appropriate Extra Prec that you and SAA advised).

R51 - I read this again, because I think you do know what I'm dealing with. What happened where those XXXXX's are up there that I added. She's saying we are done. When did that change for your FWW? Was it during withdrawal? If so, what made it change? If not, was withdrawal for you this difficult, huge swings every day, eggshells on eggshells everywhere, etc.

No. This is not correct. It is a distraction and a cop-out.

Recovery is hard. The part you are in is easy. Getting her to stay is easy. Its best for her.

Day 1 we are done
Day 2 we are done
week 2 we are done
week 3 do you want to get lunch, we are done
week 4 can you pick something up on way home
week 5 our friends hate me now
week 6 I Love you

My problem is now "can we not just put this behind us"

That is the tough sleding, getting buy in on new rules, new philosophy. Not keeping her there. Most WWs don't flee, even if you think yours will I doubt it. She has the same set of fears you do. Hey Mrs Professor left her husband, guess shes not perfect after all....

The exposure - fine I hope what you did is enough. It takes balls to jump the fence at some high end gated community. I hope hes gone.

But what we worry is they have gone underground, or into remission only to come back.

And now you are trying to get into recovery, using the carrot only, never having demonstrated how far you will go. I know you threatened, and maybe she believes you...or maybe not. Or maybe she thinks lie low and then she can reconnect. Or maybe the next guy to show an interest has an easier time because she isn't worried.

Here:

And once again:

This is a cop out and is not productive. It is an excuse. There is no basis for this. If she runs to bang another man because he compliments her, it is because 1) she is not getting that EN filled by you and 2) she has no boundaries. It is not because of her childhood. That's ridiculous. I'm not saying she doesn't have issues because of it, but causing her to engage in an adulterous affair is not one of them. Maybe this is a way for her to place responsibility on something out of her control. Or is it something that you are blaming it on to absolve you of responsibility? Just food for thought.

I have seen too many BH afraid to expose.

I have seen these BH come back whether months, a year, years later with a WW that is back doing the last OM or has moved on to a new OM.

How do you recover what you never had? Your CREATE it. I did not meet my W's emotional needs for many, many years before her A. I would not allow her to use it as an excuse, but since I wanted to save my M and make it into something better, I chose to stop making up excuses from my childhood and be the man I was capable of being.

I too agree that childhood issues have very little bearing on adult actions, if said adult is capable of adequate reasoning and critical thinking. Our therapist tried to go back to our childhood issues during counseling, and it truly was irrelevant to me in my opinion.

Sit your wife down and tell her that, as incredulous as this sounds, you are choosing to be a new man who will help make the M a great one, and tell her that she also has to CHOOSE to re-define the M. After 20 years of my behaving a certain way, I am proud to say that in the past 4 months, I am a new and improved man capable of enriching our M, because I CHOSE to do it!

You can too. Don't listed that crap about being a certain way because of your childhood. You and her are both adults, and you are both capbable of becoming new and improved spouses.

Don't let anyone tell you differently, regardless of how many letters follow their names.

PlsNotAgain, how are you doing?

Been a week since we heard are you OK?

Thanks for asking. In MC last week, she asked me to separate and repeated her wish for divorce but seemed willing to keep going to MC. When asked why she had not brought up the subject of separation during the previous week at home, she said she didn't want to hurt me. So at advice of MC, I'm in hotel with NC with her while she takes a couple of weeks to think things through without me in the house. Next MC appt next Thursday should be a crossroads. Separation alone in a hotel room is tough, a real rollercoaster of emotions and a real lonely world.