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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by Chris_USAF
Willpower is exactly what it is. Weak minded people subject themselves to situations they cannot overcome. It doesn't take a marriage building program, a psychiatrist, or a counselor to know this. Anyone can be friends with anyone. If you WANT to cheat you WILL; If you DO NOT, you WILL NOT. It's that simple.
My Formerly Wayward Husband said the same thing. Before his affair.

Mine did, too. He didn't have to worry about having "female friends" and insisted that I didn'tm either. So I tried not to.

Read my sig line.


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Originally Posted by Reynolds531
All I ask is that if you find yourself thinking about her, wanting to talk, wanting to be closer. Do a self check. Are you starting to need this person? Because if you do, thats a problem.

Think about her? Yep known her for 18 years, basically family. I think about my dad, mom, sisters, and friends almost every day too, does that mean I like them too?
Want to talk? Yep. I like talking to friends. I talk to my buddies Justin, Brandon, Chris, Joe, Keith, Melinda, and Mary almost daily too. Does this mean I like them?
Wanting to be closer? Nope. At least not in a romantic or intimate sense. I want to be closer to ALL of my friends and family. I am quite a ways away.
Need this person? Nope. But am I not going to throw away 18 years of friendship because you guys can't trust anyone. Haven't talked to her in a few days and haven't given it a second thought. I did talk to my wife today though and it was nice.

I admitted she was meeting an emotional need of communication. I also admitted that I know it's wrong to get close to her and I was not doing it. This does not mean I'm going to throw away a life long relationship because you guys can't trust anyone. I will work to better my marriage every day of my life and whether you guys want to believe it or not, ditching a friend isn't going to make anything any better. My wife has to turn around and start meeting my needs (which she is doing better at) before things will get better. I will not cheat on her, I will not leave her for another woman, I will not get close to another woman, I will not harm my children or their lives, I will always be here supporting them and my wife.

Just because YOU got cheated on doesn't mean everyone is a cheater. Like I said, this is a good program, but it's not the end-all-be-all just because some Dr. says it is. The decision to cheat is just that, A DECISION. An opportunity presented itself and your spouses jumped. You'd think in the 12 years I've been with my wife if I was going to cheat on her with this woman I would have done it by now. But no I didn't. When my wife (gf at the time) separated I then started dating other women. When she told me she was pregnant I dumped this ex-gf to get back with her, take care of my kid, and get my priorities straight.

If you guys can't see past the smoke and mirrors of this program and see the truth, then you never will. I've proven I have the willpower to resist temptation and keep things within boundaries. I'm sorry your spouses couldn't.


Me: 28
STBX: 28
Married: 8 Yrs
Kids: 7, 6, 4 & 16 & 18 (Foster)
Exposed: Apr09, 4Jan11, 10May11, 20Jun13
I'm out!

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So you get a gold medal for not cheating.

Blowing this kind of fog will only get you back here in a few months, posting this:

I've cheated on my WW! Please help! I don't know how it happened.

Someone you have known a long time is usually the "BEST" candidate for an OW or OM.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Originally Posted by Chris_USAF
I'm just a friend and we just talk. The dilemna I mention is the fact that she is providing that need to me that my wife is not (communication), which at this time is one of the largest of my needs due to the physical distance. Does it deposite love units? Sure. I know this. But will it ever go past a friendship? Nope. Not unless my wife and I divorce, and it won't be because I have another girl lined up (which I don't, she's married too). I'm not okay with the "no opposite sex friends" marriage rule, it's probably the only one I don't agree with. It creates opportunities, but what doesn't? Put on some makeup, dress up nice, talk to your waiter at the restaurant, pay a cashier at a store versus buying stuff online, etc; it all creates opportunies. It's on the individual to not put themselves in a bad situation and resist temptations. If my wife can't resist temptation then she will obviously be highly encouraged to move on. To me this rule just seems like an excuse to not trust your spouse.

One thing my wife will never get rid of is male friends. I'm more than happy to give up my female friends, and I have, but she isn't. So, given that fact, I'm not going to go to any great strides to discontinue this relationship. I've already exposed it to my wife and made sure she was okay with it. I've explained to her the details of our conversations and limited information sharing. My wife is fine with it.

I know you MB worshippers will hate me and criticize me for saying that but oh well, it's not the end all be all of rules and my wife isn't part of the MB program nor will she ever be. I've looked through it, read up on it, studied it, presented it to my wife, and tried to incorporate it, but it's not happening. If only one person is on the program it's pointless.

Hoo boy. Keep on this course and this will be your future:

You'll hook up with this married ex-girlfriend, maybe tomorrow, maybe in a year, but it'll happen.
You'll get tangled up in another man's marriage, and get to deal with his anger.
Meanwhile, your wife will be sleeping with Jon and you'll be pissed about that. But you won't do anything because you don't have any moral high ground to stand on.

And it'll be all downhill from there if you stay in denial.

You can't hang out alone with opposite-sex friends when you're married if you value your marriage. Period. You will learn this with age. Probably you'll learn it the hard way, but I hope you don't.

This is all coming from me who thought EXACTLY like you're thinking now a few years ago..... everyone else was so uptight..... we're all rational adults..... my wife can have a guy friend..... go out clubbing...... no worries..... I'll email and hang out with single girls.........

But that was back when I was young and knew everything... smile

Trainwreck's a comin', son. Hope you don't have to learn the hard way but it's up to you whether you want to think you're the "exception to the rule" or if you'll listen to the advice of the people who have all been down the same old, boring, textbook road.



Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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Originally Posted by Chris_USAF
Willpower is exactly what it is. Weak minded people subject themselves to situations they cannot overcome. It doesn't take a marriage building program, a psychiatrist, or a counselor to know this. Anyone can be friends with anyone. If you WANT to cheat you WILL; If you DO NOT, you WILL NOT. It's that simple.

Spoken like a true 26 year old! Your innate wisdom trumps experience and logic!

Dr. Harley's explanation of how affairs begin is so textbook. We're all wired for affairs, and when our emotional needs aren't getting met (like yours) and you start discussing private marital problems with a sympathetic female ear, it's on like Donkey Kong.

Willpower exits the equation when hormones, chemicals, and "love" start working their mojo. But you're experiencing it already, I'm sure.... some comparisons... some "if-onlys"..... some "wouldn't-it-be-nice"s...... and she is TOTALLY on the same page as you....

You're in the mid-to-late stages of an EA, dude. Estimate it goes physical in less than 8 months.


Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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Originally Posted by Arpeggi
You can't hang out alone with opposite-sex friends when you're married if you value your marriage. Period. You will learn this with age. Probably you'll learn it the hard way, but I hope you don't.

Who said I was hanging out with her? This is one of the barriers that exist in my marriage. I do not hang out with the opposite sex by myself and neither does my wife.

Originally Posted by Arpeggi
Dr. Harley's explanation of how affairs begin is so textbook. We're all wired for affairs, and when our emotional needs aren't getting met (like yours) and you start discussing private marital problems with a sympathetic female ear, it's on like Donkey Kong.

Willpower exits the equation when hormones, chemicals, and "love" start working their mojo. But you're experiencing it already, I'm sure.... some comparisons... some "if-onlys"..... some "wouldn't-it-be-nice"s...... and she is TOTALLY on the same page as you....

You're in the mid-to-late stages of an EA, dude. Estimate it goes physical in less than 8 months.

We may be "wired" for affairs but that doesn't mean we act on it and I've already said I'm not talking to her about my marital problems. My EN's haven't been getting met for years but that hasn't caused me to cheat. Why? Because I CHOOSE not to. No amount of emotional connection or "love" can force me to cheat. If I'm ever to the point of thinking I'm better off with someone else then I'll divorce my wife. I will not cheat on her.

I can't believe how brain washed all of you are to believe that cheating happens for any reason other than because we want it to. You don't just accidentally get in bed with someone. You don't just accidentally get emotionally attached to someone.

Call me young or immature all you want but I challenge you to deal with half the [censored] I've had to deal with in my life and then consider me immature. Age is but a number, it does not define who we are, what we've experienced, or what we'll do. And no amount of "textbook" writings from some Doctor can reliably determine what 7 billion people will do. We all have free will and what we do is our choice, not someone elses.

You say you expect this to go physical in 8 months? Nice assumption. I guess you missed the part where I said I've been close to this person for 18 years and hasn't once interfered with my 12 year relationship with my wife.

Anyways, I wish you guys the best in your marriages and I appreciate the advice on mine. This program is good, but I've come to realize it isn't for everyone. The more I stay here the more and more I'm beginning to see redunancy in the responses, "well my spouse cheated so all spouses cheat." I hate to be the bearer of bad news. Those affairs weren't accidents. Even my wife has admitted this. The question is, when will you betrayed spouses learn that.


Me: 28
STBX: 28
Married: 8 Yrs
Kids: 7, 6, 4 & 16 & 18 (Foster)
Exposed: Apr09, 4Jan11, 10May11, 20Jun13
I'm out!

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Quote
Anyways, I wish you guys the best in your marriages and I appreciate the advice on mine. This program is good, but I've come to realize it isn't for everyone. The more I stay here the more and more I'm beginning to see redunancy in the responses, "well my spouse cheated so all spouses cheat." I hate to be the bearer of bad news. Those affairs weren't accidents. Even my wife has admitted this. The question is, when will you betrayed spouses learn that.
I'd be interested to see where you got the idea that we think all spouses cheat. I've been here awhile, and I don't recall anyone ever saying that.

It is a given that humans are all wired to cheat. That's not to say that all people cheat.



D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
I'd be interested to see where you got the idea that we think all spouses cheat. I've been here awhile, and I don't recall anyone ever saying that.

It is a given that humans are all wired to cheat. That's not to say that all people cheat.

Originally Posted by maritalbliss
My Formerly Wayward Husband said the same thing. Before his affair.

So first you say I'm going to cheat because your spouse did. And now you're saying not everyone cheats.

Which is it?

And I didn't mean that everyone (all 7 billion inhabitants of earth) cheats. The assumption was that anyone with an opposite sex friendship will cheat "because my spouse did it." That's the vibe here. I disagree with this vibe because I am trying to prove I'm a perfect example of my philosophy, not the exception to yours.

And I don't disagree with you on the wired to cheat. You're right. It's genetics. I did also say that in the end it's our choice that dictates our actions, not our genetics.


Me: 28
STBX: 28
Married: 8 Yrs
Kids: 7, 6, 4 & 16 & 18 (Foster)
Exposed: Apr09, 4Jan11, 10May11, 20Jun13
I'm out!

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So first you say I'm going to cheat because your spouse did. And now you're saying not everyone cheats.
No, I didn't say you were going to cheat because my spouse did. You are taking my comment out of context to support your position.

I made that comment to underscore the fact that it is easy to have the best of intentions. When you're not in the middle of an affair it's easy to say "Oh, I would never cheat on my spouse." Many, MANY waywards have made that statement and at the time they meant it. I'm sure you mean that right now.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Originally Posted by Chris_USAF
So first you say I'm going to cheat because your spouse did. And now you're saying not everyone cheats.

Which is it?

It doesn't matter.

You are not listening.

As long as you are not listening, you can't be helped.

Nobody is saying that you will cheat.

We are saying that you are cheating, now.

You have admitted it to us.

Do you have a response?

I've already posted this once, and you did not respond. Should I waste my breath any further?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by karmasrose
So you get a gold medal for not cheating.

Wrong. He's having an affair.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Chris_USAF
The more I stay here the more and more I'm beginning to see redunancy in the responses,

Maybe if you actually read the responses, you'd see less redundancy. You clearly didn't read mine.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Chris_USAF
Call me young or immature all you want but I challenge you to deal with half the [censored] I've had to deal with in my life and then consider me immature. Age is but a number,


Deja VU.

My 16 year old gave me the same speech 2 nights ago when told her she couldn't go to a guys house she had never met.



BH: 46
FWW: 44
3 DD: 20,17,11
Married 24 years
PA/EA: 5/08
DDay: 6/08
NC: 8/08
Previous EA 1998 confessed 8/08
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"I've been close to this person for 18 years and hasn't once interfered with my 12 year relationship with my wife."


I'd say being with her during your separation counts as interference. Why don't you think everyone here is trying to help you? Because they are.

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Best strategy;

[Linked Image from smileys.emoticonsonly.com]

You've all seen the movie before, time to stop screaming a the screen, he ain't hearin' it.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Chris they are just telling you what they have seen, and I was telling you what I felt. No one wants you to have an issue is all. You are responsible to yourself.

Maybe best if everyone agrees to disagree and the thread gets back to trying to help you save your marriage.

Everybody understands what was said on both sides. You were warned and offered an explanation. Period.

Can everyone live with that?


FBH,Dad
No half measures, in anything.
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Reynolds, we ARE trying to save his marriage, FROM HIS AFFAIR.

That is the problem here with ChrisUSAF, he doesn't realize that he is already wayward. He has changed even since he arrived here. We were trying to help him understand but he has made too many justifications to us already. He is attempting to gaslight us by saying that we only believe this because WE can't trust anyone. That WE have been cheated on so that's why we don't believe him. The real reason has to do with our knowledge and collective experience and we KNOW that he IS wayward RIGHT NOW. He doesn't like what is being said to him because he believes he is better than all of our waywards and even US. He isn't better. He is wayward.

I feel sorry for those poor children.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


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? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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Originally Posted by Scotland
He is attempting to gaslight us by saying that we only believe this because WE can't trust anyone. That WE have been cheated on so that's why we don't believe him.

Good post, Scottie.

And what Chris also conveniently consistently leaves out of these generalizations about the advice given to him here is that several of the posts have been written by FORMER WAYWARDS! He completely ignored the one by Sparkler...

What is actually redudant in the last couple pages of the thread is Chris's twisting of the advice given here so that he can continue to contact with OW because, as he said, he is UNWILLING TO GIVE IT UP...a sure sign that this has already crossed over the danger line...


Ddays 2007 and 2011
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How to Plan B Correctly
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Justification. Justification.

@markos you are absolutely right. He already admitted he is getting his needs met outside of marriage from an opposite sex friend.

My problem is that he is taking advantage of his EXGF to get his needs met, while she has to deal with a an abusive husband.

Pure Wayward in his thinking. How does he think that this OW is better off with her meeting his needs.

Train wreck coming up. I really do hope he gets out of his Fog.


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Scotty, nothing but respect for you and everyone else on here that helps out strangers, but I think you are losing your grip on this guy. He is going to leave and not come back and that serves no purpose.
Yes he sounds like a wayward, and nothing he says is going to convince you otherwise. Nothing you write here is going to convince him to run the other way from this exgf. So you are stalemated on it. And having four pages of back and forth will simply drive him off, where he will have an affair, and the kids will suffer.
I am new, but I think better to warn, then work from within. If he stays on the board, gets good advice and support it lessens the need to talk to this girl. And he might even start to recognize some of the warning signs, might have enough brains to pull back from it.
Or maybe I am too new, and put too much faith in people. I just see so many posts and Chris fighting so hard with each of you and I think that can�t be helping. I can�t see you reaching him that way.

Either way, if I am wrong I will try to learn from it. I guess we will know in three months or so. And again, nothing but respect and admiration for all you guys that have been on here for a few years.

Regards


FBH,Dad
No half measures, in anything.
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