If you think you need a program well, ok. I didn't use any program except my faith and prayer. I just vowed to get control of myself. It is in the thinking. But if you need a program, so be it. You will be divorced if you do not stop this nonsense.

Markos ~

I just found this on Prisca's thread:


Can you comment? What are you doing to make her think this?

Reminder: Please be HONEST with us.

Well, Dr. Harley thinks an anger management program is the next step when a spouse hasn't learned to control their anger.

I've worked through half of a seminar that turned out not to be very good and then gone through materials from Newton Hightower and was about to go through a seminar using his methods, but instead of doing the seminar I now have a telephone appointment with Hightower himself next Monday.

I will certainly try to be honest. I'm not sure if I'm doing anything at this moment to show resentment, and in fact I'm not feeling a lot at the moment. We spent a couple of great hours together last night and it feels like both of us are putting ourselves hard into making changes, so I don't feel resentful.

She might have read my post above where I talked about how much I resent what happened last year, though. And I do ... but that resentment vanishes when I see evidence that last year isn't going to happen again.

IMHO it would be good to get this cleared up. You might consider asking her what it is you are doing that's giving her this impression.

And she's gotten very mad at me when I've tried to disengage from dangerous conversations. I have spent a lot of the last year learning how wrong and hurtful it is to try to force her to talk about a problem, and I'd like to have the same consideration extended to me. When I feel like there is a DJ I don't want to discuss the details of it (our coach said that was a very difficult thing to do without a fight). Last year Prisca highlighted a sentence in Love Busters that said "If your negotiation turns sour, and one of you succumbs to the temptation of the Taker with demands, disrespect or anger, end the discussion by changing the subject to something more pleasant." So I think that she would like me to do that. But sometimes when I have tried to gently change the subject or indicate I'm uncomfortable with a conversation she has responded with DJs. We agreed awhile back that we would grant each other at least ten minutes to calm down at any time (that's how long Dr. Harley says to take when you are frustrated to get all the adrenaline out of your system and avoid an angry outburst), but sometimes when I have tried to take that long to respond (we still talk a lot by instant messenger while I am at work) she has gotten upset with me or told me I am ignoring her. And truthfully if we take ten minutes and start again and I'm still subjected to DJs, the conversation is still not safe for me to continue.

I gave Prisca several DJ worksheets last year but haven't seen a lot of response. I did these on paper for awhile, but I started doing them through email after one MB lesson night we scheduled, when I gave her my form and she wouldn't extend her hand to take it from me. I was left standing there with my hand outstretched with the paper in it and she just looked at me; finally I just let go and dropped it to the ground. The last DJ worksheet I sent I asked "Can we talk about these some time?" but there was no response.

Well, that didn't go well.

She wanted to talk about why I felt resentful yesterday and she wanted to know why I felt resentful before she DJ'ed me.

I didn't. She just doesn't know where the DJs started.

We talked a little bit, but then it wasn't long before she DJ'ed me, and I indicated I needed the conversation to stop. Prisca didn't respect my request and has now canceled our UA time for tonight.

What specific issues are you resentful over?
I'm assuming resentment is why you blew up at me?

No, I don't really know why I blew up at you.
Now that I am a couple of days away from it, I just look stupid to myself when I try to remember it.
I became frustrated and do not have good habits firmly in place yet to deal with frustration.

you sounded very resentful during the AO ... all day, actually

disrespectful judgments frustrate me.

but you sounded resentful before DJs

Did you know it's a DJ to say "you never' or "you always"?

??

what?

why are you asking me that?

I guess there's no answer.
I felt the conversation was disrespectful from pretty early on.

you've totally confused me

What did I do that first made you think I felt resentful?

and you know my desire for us to schedule 15 minutes a day for me to do the budget and pay bills, don't you?

I felt like there were DJs before that point.
Like when you said "I never know about these things"
It's not right for me to withhold information from you,
but the reason I withhold information is because I am scared of your reaction.

I never do ... when have I known?

I need to stop.

stop what?

this conversation.
Can we change the subject?

no

okay.

How is she DJing you?

"Prisca didn't respect my request"
I did respect your request. I walked away.
you're lying about me

By telling me that what I felt was disrespectful was not disrespectful, because it is true.

For me it is this simple: I feel judged, and I want Prisca to respect that I need to back away from a conversation if I feel that way. I give her the same respect, in fact Marriage Builders calls for it.

And I did not cancel UA time. I told you I didn't want to go to the gym.

I felt judged when I told her that I felt like "I never know about these things" was a DJ from the previous conversation, and her reply was "I never do. When have I known?"

I just want to stop arguing. I don't want to settle who's right or not, and I don't want to be told I am a liar because I saw the conversation differently from the way she did.

Remember yesterday when you said this and it was determined it was because you didn't want to talk about the possibility that it was your fault?

This is a huge problem, Markos...HUGE. You make a mistake and then you don't want to talk about it. How in the world are you going to fix anything if you won't talk about it and find a solution?

I'm a little bit confused ... are Prisca and I not entitled to have different opinions about whose fault something is? I thought trying to tell your spouse something is their fault WAS a disrespectful judgment, by definition.