Even if she makes a demand, you still do nothing without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse.

Love busters on her part do not justify love busters on your part.


You guess?


Quit looking at her. Look at you. She will never want to change if you aren't willing to change.

Get the plank out of your own eye and quit attempting to pick the specks out of hers.

Hill,

Do you know what you're supposed to do when you can't reach a decision with POJA? Nothing.

And, when I was on the radio show last year Dr Harley told me to clean up my DJ and my DH's AO would stop. And, they pretty well have.

Policy of Joint Agreement: DON'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT THE ENTHUSIASTIC AGREEMENT OF YOUR SPOUSE.


STOP IT!!! You are destroying your marriage.

Oh Hill ... You've threatening your wife's security. Basically you're saying "Straighten up, or I'm leaving you."

That would break any woman's heart. How do you expect to fill her love bank when you threaten her very security?

I can see that. I guess it was weird because my wife drank wine with me about five nights in a row, then got up one day and said I don't want wine and I don't want you to either. So what had become a very common thing for us maybe even "presumed" activity, especially of late, has now become something she decided unilaterally that WE no longer were doing. So I felt like, "where was I during that decision that was made?"

Now from a practical stance we used to hit the gym after I got home from work, which has now turned into, rush through dinner, get the kids down asap, then open some wine and unwind over TV and Scrabble. Pretty sure the gym is more healthy, but so difficult to make happen with making child care arrangements. I asked my wife if we could do this, but it was met with the usual "maybe" or "we'll see". I can appreciate taking charge of plans, but I know my wife so a, "put your gym clothes on were heading to the gym, and dropping off the kids with your folks" would not be received well.

Matthew 7:5, nice pull!

We always get into sticky territory if we try to judge how rational something is. Whether you think it is rational or not, it still withdrew from her love bank.

I will apologize to her for this, I didn't intend for it to come off that way. I feel like a doormat, I don't like to feel that way. I'm struggling to on how to no longer be a doormat. I guess I don't know how to say it then. When I first got to this forum someone, can't remember who, told me to tell my wife "I don't intend on being in a sexless relationship." Well I don't intend in being a punching bag either so I thought that was saying the same thing.

HT, I would apologize for drinking the wine when she had asked you not to and leave it at that.

It would be good in the future for you to call your W and discuss the wine before you even buy it.

You have got it backwards.

Your wife informed you that the previous situation was something she was not enthusiastic about any more.

Your correct response was to do nothing and negotiate a new agreement.

Instead, you made the unilateral decision to drink anyway. You are the one who made a unilateral decision.

Dr. Harley jumped all over me for this kind of thing. I'll go pull you some quotes off of the private forum.

When there is a conflict, your correct response is to do NOTHING until there is an enthusiastic agreement. If you were doing something before, stop doing it and do nothing until there is enthusiastic agreement. Drinking wine is not doing nothing, it is doing something.

Your wife was not being demanding at all. It is not demanding to say "It turns out the agreement we made is not going to work for me after all; I'm no longer enthusiastic; we need to make a new plan together." That's not a demand.

Plank: Your independent behavior

No, she decided that she was no longer happy doing this activity. She's letting you know she's unhappy. POJA says DO NOTHING until you can both enthusiastically agree on what to do. This is part of showing her you care for her. It's taking her needs into account.

She didn't make a decision unilaterally. She told you she didn't want to do this anymore. To insist that you are going to do it anyway, when she's made it known to you that she's unhappy with it, is to gain at her expense. YOU are the one that made a unilateral decision. And you gained at her expense.

Why would she be enthusiastic about going to the gym with you when you won't even use POJA to protect her about the wine issue? You are in the habit of gaining at her expense. Why would she want to do anything?

Short answer: POJA

I just apologized and asked her again to plan with me. I sent her a note last night about specific days we might have wine nights and ones we don't. She hasn't replied to it.

Independent behavior is not the solution to that.


And you are not in a sexless relationship.

This kind of ultimatum is more appropriate when you have actually been working this program well. When you have eliminated demands, disrespect, anger, independent behavior, and you are meeting your wife's needs, and she is still not meeting yours, then that may be an option. There's an article about that kind of situation, but you'll see Dr. Harley only advocates such ultimatums when he's supervised a man working his program flawlessly: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit3.html


We've established that you have NOT done a good job meeting Grace's emotional needs and avoiding love busters. You have made improvement, but you're still falling into the love busters about once a week. (From my vantage point it looks like this is some improvement over about once every three days. But of course I can't see clearly over the internet. And the important point is that they are not eliminated.)

You are going to have to do a stellar job of this and cause Grace to fall back in love with you. There is simply no other way. She is almost certainly going to feel in love with you before she gets to the point where her instincts are prompting her to meet your needs naturally and you begin to fall back in love with her. There is no other way.

Your children are depending on you.

Are you willing to quit the wine altogether if she's not enthusiastic about it?

If you agree that you can drink wine Thursdays but next Thursday she says "You drinking wine tonight is not going to work for me after all," are you willing to follow the POJA and skip it that night?

You know what Prisca, I have no idea what she is enthusiastic about. You know how I know? Because she won't ever answer me. I send her a text asking if we could do massages and yahtzee last night and she responds back with, you need to get a vasectomy. I email her about some suggested dates we can schedule wine, no wine, scrabble, who makes dinner, etc, she doesn't answer me. If I point blank ask her what she'd like to do she says, "I don't know what do you want to do?" So I make suggestions, they mostly go unanswered, shot down, or put in the "we'll see" box to never be addressed again.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=160882&Number=2404950#Post2404950



I hope you understand that you drinking wine last night when your wife objected was gaining at her expense. Further contributing to the bankruptcy in both of your love banks.

There is no solution to this other than to meet emotional needs and avoid love busters. Your wife is in withdrawal. She will venture out of withdrawal sometimes for conflict. You must get in the habit of meeting her emotional needs all the time and avoiding love busters all the time so that when she ventures into conflict you will slowly make progress towards her moving into intimacy.

It will not be easy. You will need to do it even if she engages in love busters and even if she does not meet your needs.

But if you focus on you and make this happen, you will save your marriage. She will move back into intimacy and then she will finally reciprocate with enthusiasm. Only then.

Start thinking long term. She is going to move back into intimacy before you do.

You missed my question. Why would she be enthusiastic about anything?

I'll tell you what she's enthusiastic about: NOTHING. You know why? Because you are in the habit of gaining at her expense. You will not follow POJA. There's no reason for her to be enthusiastic about anything that has to do with you.

You want her enthusiasm? Start following POJA. Let her know you are going to protect her and never willingly gain at her expense again. Start today.

I'll quit wine, I'll take up knitting if it means I can have a happy marriage. What I can't do is fly by the seat of my pants and have all parts of our life "up in the air" and in limbo. I asked my wife last night to play me like a fiddle so that all her wishes and desires would come true. I asked if she could work on not making me guess so much on when or how she wants something. In other words, "please honey just answer my questions directly." "please say what you mean and mean what you say so I don't get confused so much." "please respond to my emails with answers so I know what the answer is." As I sit here in my office as we speak there are no plans for tonight. I don't know what to expect, I'll do whatever she wants to do, and I'm almost always willing to, but I just never know until the moment is upon us and that is maddening to keep up with.

You have been told repeatedly to start scheduling UA, with or without your wife. When are you going to do it?

Okay, you've made your requests. What are you going to do if she doesn't respond? Turn them into demands?


Make plans. Ask her if she likes them. If she doesn't, suggest something else. If she still doesn't, try again tomorrow.

You really need to make these plans a week ahead of time and discuss them with her before the week even starts.