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HoldHerHand #2524872 07/01/11 12:05 AM
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YOU could start by being honest with me instead of trying to bait me into your creations of chaos where you think I would win?

That would be helpful.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2524904 07/01/11 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: CWMI
I'm pretty simple. All I need is to be loved and not deceived.

Oh, and a boat...lol.

Now we need to negotiate dry stack and wet storage. H is stuck on dry stack. I'm planning to use respectful persuasion to convince him to switch to wet storage by next spring. H has never been part of a 'dock culture', and I think he would LOVE it. He thinks it's bad for the boat, better to keep it dry when not in use. I've been part of dock culture and I think it would add to our boating experience (and H's potential client base<<see what I did there?).

But for now, we're dry stack, it's not important enough for me to press, I'd rather encourage by exposure. I just wish the flipping thing would get here already!!! It's being shipped in from another location.


You're learning to "sell the salesman", CWMI. Oh, btw, I'm glad that you didn't perceive my comment about DH being able to "relax" as my way of insinuating that it will help you relax, so your DH can relax and connect.

Rather, I see the pool table and boat as tools that, in your DH's mind say to himself, "This is success to me." I really believe that your DH doesn't give himself permission to have things less than perfect. Not out of some sick, neurotic OCD behavior, but rather out of a need to keep life in control due to some misery in his past. I went through this when I was young and it took me almost giving up the ghost in an accident to realize that life is too short. Things don't have to be perfect to be good and things that "look" good can also be bad.

As far as wet storage, if you believe that life will be 100% better with it, then you'll have to sell him on it. If he misses a few opportunities to entertain/party due to a lack of spontaneity (ie having to haul dear boat to the water, etc.) he'll be easier to persuade. Oh, and once the boat is in the H2O, you guys might end up on the water all the time, to the point he'll look for a dock. He won't want to miss out on any fun or opportunities to schmooze with clients.

Anyway, it's a 4th of July weekend. I hope arrives asap you have a great time!!!!


Live, love, and laugh because the best is yet to come!
HoldHerHand #2524907 07/01/11 08:54 AM
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So glad to hear about the boat and the pool table. And that you are making progress. Even if more progress remains to be made. Sounds like you are on an upward path.


When you can see it coming, duck!
RareMamaJewel #2524916 07/01/11 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: RareMamaJewel
I'm glad that you didn't perceive my comment about DH being able to "relax" as my way of insinuating that it will help you relax, so your DH can relax and connect.

Things don't have to be perfect to be good and things that "look" good can also be bad.



Yeah, there's way too much evidence here that it's not my fault he hasn't been able to relax and connect. We definitely have different ways of doing things--he likes to plow right through and get everything that needs doing done BEFORE he takes a break, and I shut down after about an hour and take a breather, then work some more, then rest again, eat a sammich, read autocorrect...lol. We have very different definitions of 'needs to be done' as well.

We did personality type tests a few years ago, and you hit it, his strongest personality trait is "I need to be perfect and good to be happy."

That must suck. Nobody can be perfect!

In full disclosure, mine was "I need to be strong and in control to be happy." LOL.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2525377 07/05/11 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: CWMI
YOU could start by being honest with me instead of trying to bait me into your creations of chaos where you think I would win?

That would be helpful.



Since I suck at being gentle;

Originally Posted By: Vibrissa
Him threatening punishment doesn't mean you are incapable of it as well.

I figured you griped about the situation to someone and the grapevine did it's work.

The more and more I think about it Plan B is in order for you CWMI. I don't think you are capable (not from lack of ability, but from just trying for so long) of reigning in your Taker anymore.

Your Love Bank is deeply in the red.

Could you have done better? Probably.

Is there stuff on your side of the street you need to work on? I think so and I think you would agree with me.

You commit LBs, you could probably do better at meeting ENs. You're not getting a free pass on that, but I think it likely that you have done all you can do and suffered all you can suffer.

But you don't have to be PERFECT in order to be loved, you have to be trying. I don't think you can try anymore. I think you're tapped out.

Do you think it POSSIBLE you could muster up the energy for one last go - round? To take your family on this trip that has landed in your lap and try to make the best of it. Try to be loving and pleasant. Drop the attitude and eliminate the DJs for a couple of days? One last try to reconnect with your husband. Give him one last chance to meet your needs?


Maybe the boat is a go here?

I don't know.

I suspect I'm on your @#!+ list and you don't want to hear my opinion anyway.

I really do hope it turns around, but I don't think I can help - and be honest doing so - without creating a firestorm.

Good luck.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2527404 07/11/11 08:19 PM
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Nobody on my @#!+ list ever wonders if they are on there, I tell them.

This boat thing is AWESOME. Lots of FC over the weekend, and a boating date night of UA. It really challenges us on working together when anchoring and docking, and we've sailed though those challenges (punny!). A funny communication gaffe: we were pulling anchor, he at the bow and I at the helm, and I was following his direction on pulling forward or back when he said, "Kill the power!" I immediately shut off the engine. He looked at me like I was crazy, said, "What the &^$# are you doing?" I said, "You told me to kill the power, so I shut it off." He said he *meant* to put it in neutral (where it was, btw). I said, "Well just say that then!" smile

Euphemisms. This may be a place to practice direct language.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2527419 07/11/11 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: CWMI
Nobody on my @#!+ list ever wonders if they are on there, I tell them.


Ain't that the Truth (said to the rest of the board, since I am on CWMI's 'list')

CWMI #2527448 07/12/11 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: CWMI
Nobody on my @#!+ list ever wonders if they are on there, I tell them.

This boat thing is AWESOME. Lots of FC over the weekend, and a boating date night of UA. It really challenges us on working together when anchoring and docking, and we've sailed though those challenges (punny!). A funny communication gaffe: we were pulling anchor, he at the bow and I at the helm, and I was following his direction on pulling forward or back when he said, "Kill the power!" I immediately shut off the engine. He looked at me like I was crazy, said, "What the &^$# are you doing?" I said, "You told me to kill the power, so I shut it off." He said he *meant* to put it in neutral (where it was, btw). I said, "Well just say that then!" smile

Euphemisms. This may be a place to practice direct language.


Let the trend continue...

clap


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2528202 07/14/11 10:29 PM
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Heading out for a week of 24/7 time together. Things are Awesome. Little things like the spotlessness of the boat to work on, (i told him that when he starts fretting about dirt, I hear "i don't love you" since he said to me and SH that he couldn't love me if the house wasn't to his standard), he recognizes the sickness, he sees how the rest of us are playing in the water and having fun while he is scrubbing a brand-new boat for watermarks, while it is in the water.

I like a guy who cleans, but c'mon! He told me, "i just don't want to end up being the only person who cleans this boat." I said the rest of us would clean it when it was needed, but none of us are interested in making it look unused. If he wants it showroom clean, every trip, he would be the only one cleaning it because the rest of us are more interested in its useability. We want to use it. We can have it detailed if H doesn't want to clean it himself. We'll help once or twice a month beyond general unloading and trash removal.

After that convo, we went into a grocer, straight from the boat. H noticed that his shirt was buttoned crooked. He asked me if he should fix it before we went in the store. I told him i would be terribly proud if he could walk through the store with a misbuttoned shirt. He did it!


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2534126 08/08/11 03:00 PM
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I have the best life and my marriage is better than ever. What a journey! RC should be listed as the #1 most-important, never-neglect aspect of a marriage. What's the old saying, couples who play together stay together? YES. 'Tis true.

And my H lists RC as #8 on his list of ENs. Here comes a DJ: that man doesn't know what he's talking about!!! lol. He is so much more relaxed and fun and attentive and attracted and thoughtful and giving and just all of the things that a wife would want from a husband, and it comes effortlessly, as least as far as I can tell. I could tell when he was feeling dragged kicking and screaming into spending time with me, so I'm assuming that I can tell the difference. I may of course be wrong, but I don't think so.

GO PLAY WITH YOUR SPOUSE.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2534132 08/08/11 03:16 PM
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Wow, CWMI, sounds great. Congratulations. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
CWMI #2534134 08/08/11 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: CWMI
GO PLAY WITH YOUR SPOUSE.


There is an entire segment of the medical, psychological, and academic community that is making a huge push on the importance of play in our lives. (for examples, look over recent talks from TED)

Also, one can look at the phenomenon called "Misattribution of Arousal."

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/07/07/misattribution-of-arousal/#more-1286

When I read this, two things immediately came to mind; the importance of RC, and the importance of your spouse being your favorite and only RC companion.

Again, the solid foundations of Marriage Builders advice are much more than they appear on the surface!

Awesome update, CWMI!

*double edit for short notation*

Quote:
In 2008, psychologist James Graham at the University of North Carolina conducted a study to see what sort of activities kept partners bonded. He had 20 couples who lived together carry around digital devices while conducting their normal daily activities. Whenever the device went off, they had to use it to text back to the researchers and tell them what they were up to. They then answered a few questions about their mood and how they felt toward their partners. After over a thousand of these buzz-report-introspect-text moments, he looked over the data and found couples who routinely performed difficult tasks together as partners were also more likely to like each other. Over the course of his experiments, he found partners tended to feel closer, more attracted to and more in love with each other when their skills were routinely challenged. He reasoned the buzz you get when you break through a frustrating trial and succeed, what Graham called flow, was directly tied to bonding. Just spending time together is not enough, he said. The sort of activities you engage in are vital. Graham concluded you are driven to grow, to expand, to add to your abilities and knowledge. When you satisfy this motivation for self-expansion by incorporating aspects of your romantic partner or friend into your own skills, philosophies and self, it does more to strengthen your bond than any other act of love. This opens the door to one of the best things about misattribution of emotion. If, like those in the study, you persevere through a challenge be it remodeling a kitchen yourself or learning how to Dougie that glowing feeling of becoming more wise, that buoyant sense of self-expansion will be partially misattributed to the presence of the other person. You become conditioned over time to see the relationship itself as a source for those sorts of emotions, and you will become less likely to want to sever your bond with the other party. In the beginning, just learning how to relate to the other person and interpret their non-verbal cues, emotional swings and strange food aversions is an exercise in self-expansion. The frequency of novelty can diminish as the relationship ages and you settle into routines. The bond can seem to weaken. To build it up again you need adversity, even if simulated. Taking ballroom dancing lessons or teaming up against friends in Trivial Pursuit are more likely to keep the flame flickering than wine and Marvin Gaye.


Psychological Study; 2008

MB founded: 1976

Woop!

Last edited by HoldHerHand; 08/08/11 03:21 PM.

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2534283 08/09/11 04:27 AM
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Just dropping a note to add the MB article referring to this, which I am certain you are familiar with, CWMI.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=4&sublink=32&subsublink=324


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2534297 08/09/11 06:58 AM
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cwmi, good for you for hanging in there, I'm glad you're seeing the fruits smile


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
NewEveryDay #2538560 08/26/11 04:40 PM
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Ok, durr, been on the phone (my cell phone) for THREE HOURS NOW trying to fix a mess my H made by responding to SPAM. My home phone is OFF, he changed providers (did I mention this was through spam, that he logged into my facebook account to complete, and spammed all my friends, too?) without discussing it with me and it appears I've lost my phone number that I've had for five years longer than I've had my husband, and is linked to all my accounts, that all my kid's friends have, etc...oh my, I've been scrambling changing passwords (you know how we tend to use two or three? Yeah, the password he gave to the spammers was the password for several financial accounts, as well as my email, had to change all that) and UGH. Really? He said he was trying to win a gift card, and the phone deal would save us $7 a month, which would be groovy IF WE HAD PHONE SERVICE. Grr...

We'll get through it. I'll bite my "Oh, you stupid man" tongue and we'll get through.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2538584 08/26/11 05:46 PM
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Well, at least the scam was somewhat believable. Not $550K from a Nigerian lawyer.

kerala #2538669 08/27/11 09:50 AM
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I feel disrespected and betrayed. He did all this in my name, what a mess, it's going to take up to ten days to get my phone back on, and then only if the spammer company chooses to port my phone number back to my original carrier. They said they would, but then again they got it by spamming to begin with. They were going to flag the account as fraud, I had to talk them out of going after my H, I only wanted my service restored with my original carrier.

Gah, it almost seems like maybe a telecommunications fraud charge would be a good catalyst to learning the importance of POJA.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2538758 08/27/11 07:23 PM
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Oh dear. Just oh dear.

Happy2CU #2538772 08/27/11 08:08 PM
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I know, right? Now I have to wait for a phone call (again, on my cell, which is NOT unlimited calling) on monday, while I'm in class, to verify that I am the original account holder and that I do want my number ported back, and the whole thing is so utterly ridiculous to me, I was in a conference call with BOTH companies and they can't seem to get me restored without a whole lot of trouble and time. It's BS.

I'm fluctuating between anger and depression, and my H said, "Over a PHONE?" I was all, if it didn't mean anything to YOU, you shoulda left it alone!!! Lo and behold, his cell phone is acting up, he called me from the cell phone store and asked how I felt about him upgrading and entering into a new contract. I said, well, since you want to save money on phones, why don't you just cancel it? Maybe I should switch you to a new provider where you have no service? What would you like? He came home with his old phone. I did tell him I was in no state of mind to make an agreement to upgrade his phone.

So. Frustrated.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2538818 08/27/11 10:47 PM
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cwmi here's where I come in and ask you what helps you to reset? Your H is fallible, we all are. These are folks who are trained in how to con men like your H. I can imagine how accepted it would make him feel if you were his champion here instead of judging him. I made a similar mistake a few years back, I probably posted about it. If I remember right we had something electrical that wasn't working, I got an electrician out to fix it, and he charged a ridiculous amount. I should have asked him how much it would cost before he came out, because I would have not had him out, it was a big amount, like $350. Or failing to ask before he came out, I should have asked before he started the work, and told him to leave if he gave me that price. When I saw the ridiculous amount, I tried to call B before I paid it, but he was at work, and I didn't know what to do, I wanted this man out of my house. So I paid him. I knew B would call and get it reversed later. Which he did, and that part I appreciated. He blew up at me so bad, and lost respect for me, which I imagine you lost respect for your H too. Maybe I'm wrong. That part made me sick to my stomach for days.

You could let him clean up his own mess, but he hasn't shown he's trustworthy to do that yet, I understand. I hope you two eventually resolve this in a way that it brings you closer together.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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