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Originally Posted by peachyisback
Here are the main issues:

1)You say NO to exposing your nasty affair to your husband.
2)You say NO to firing this very unwise and dark "spiritual" helper, whom I suspect really IS your emotional affair partner...
3)You say NO to ending your emotional affair.

EXACTLY HOW are you applying the new knowledge of MB if your answer to the key problems going on is NO?

EXPLAIN THAT.

Are you going to quit lying and DO WHAT YOU ARE NOT DOING NOW. End this life charade.

I am still on the fence about telling him. I do think that I will not be able to have a happy marriage while keeping it secret. But I am a planner. Chances are (at least in the beginning), he will throw me out. So I need a place to live and the only two places are male friends which of course would not help the recovery. So I need a job and a way to support myself.

Who do I turn to when things get rough (which they will) if I end my friendship (which is not sexual and is not going to turn sexual)? Family is not really an option. They will most likely side with my husband.

I do not think my spiritual director is giving me bad advice.

I haven't applied anything yet. I am still thinking and planning. I am reading about EN and EP and NC. Reading logs of WS and BS. Trying to see how to implement them in my life what changes I need to make. Do I think they will work? Can I do some of them without my husband. Is the pain worth it to try to save the marriage? Am I better off alone or in the prison that this plan creates? What do I owe my husband? What do I owe my kids? How does God fit into this plan? Should I just divorce and file for annulment? I will have to come completely clean in the annulment and my husband will read everything I did in my childhood and marriage. I actually feel like things are getting more foggy then clear.

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Originally Posted by TheRoad
These responses by you show you are learning that the way you have been living your marriage is wrong. Admitting the affairs were wrong. Never reaching out during the day with a call, now you are. That you have to give up passwords, transparent, no place for secrets between H and W. Boundaries are good this is why you know it's wrong to have a male trainer, stay away from men your BH does not like.

There have been many an affair started where the first time the preBS saw the preOP there was a sense of dislike/distrust for them. The preBS's 6th sense was pegged on full danger.

Their preWS ignored the advice for them to stay away and became a WS. Damage done when it could of been avoided.

And edit to add you are admitting you have failed to meet 15 hours UA time. Your making progress.

My husband does not have a problem with my training partner. We went to dinner with him and his wife once. They like each other. I just was thinking about the no opposite sex friends policy.

I stopped seeing the man that my husband did not like. Though I did not have feelings for him, he had started to become controlling and was not helpful for my marriage. I see him occasionally at the gym and at mass but told him we are no longer to discuss my marriage, job search or anything negative in my life. It took him awhile to stay within the boundaries but now keeps things light.

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Originally Posted by TheRoad
And edit to add you are admitting you have failed to meet 15 hours UA time. Your making progress.

Forgot about this line. My husband may be working in a different country so will not be around for 15 hours a week.

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As BH, the best thing that could have happened to me was my WW being 100% open and honest about both her affair and her unhappiness.

Instead, she continued to lie until, I believe, she felt she had not choice to become completely detached and could see nothing other than divorce as the solution to her problems.

She didn't realize there was forgiveness and love on the other side of her coming clean with the truth. She was unable to see that in the fog of her affair and divorce.

She got the divorce she wanted. But it wasn't because she wasn't loved. It was because she didn't love herself enough to decide she was better than the lying she was living.

Affairs are living a lie. The only way the lie ends is if it is replaced with the truth. The truth is not a secret, but an open discussion about what has happened.

As long as your husband doesn't know, you are still living the lie of the affair and you still expose him of the abusive, emotional rape of that affair.

To withhold information like this from your spouse is to continue to emotionally rape him.

You've read the articles. It doesn't matter what you claim he's done to you. Even if it is true, is that ever justification for your behavior?

No!

So when will you quit wasting everyone's time and come clean with your affair and start the plan to rebuild a marriage you both enjoy?

You have the choice, come clean, which is your only chance to build a solid marriage.

You can just leave, give up, never telling him.

Or you can keep quiet and muddle along until he finds out, or until you are consumed from the inside by your guilt over what you've done.

I suspect he has no idea not only about the affair, but how you feel about him? These crimes, which are very real in your mind, both the one's you've committed and the one's he's committed are probably only known by you.

How do you build the marriage you want if you are keeping secret both what you've done and how you feel about his behaviors?

You can't.

You cannot in good conscience just focus on his bad behavior, glossing over your affair.

Nor can you just come clean about your affair.

It ALL has to be on the table in order to build a romantic marriage.

Who knows, maybe he wants what you do, and this would be the wake up call he needs. Maybe you telling the truth would tell him how serious you are about creating a good marriage with him.

But if you don't want to do that, then be honest, tell him.

Leave out the DJ's about you being a better parent. Likely he is better than you in things, you are better than him. Stop discounting his contribution or talents. Instead, why not find the positive in his different strengths, instead of just saying he's not as good a parent.

Besides, I'm not convinced you are in any position right now to judge the parenting skills of another. The fact that you had an affair, and the additional fact that you are unwilling to be honest about it, doesn't provide me with the confidence that you are a good and accurate judge of your husband.

Finally, you are the only one here, so any discussion of his behaviors, actions or reactions carries ZERO weight with respect to what the MB plan directs in terms of recovering from an affair.

The first steps, that cannot be skipped are no contact and telling your betrayed spouse about the affair.

You've been here over a week now, IIRC, so what is taking so long to begin to do the right thing? It's not going to change. It will not get easier with time. In fact, it will get harder to do the right thing.

The news will not get any better for him. In fact, the longer you wait, it will likely get worse for him.

I see no benefit to you or your family by delaying one more second with respect to coming clean about your affairs.

You continue to carry the burden of your actions and you delay healing for yourself and for your family as long as it's still a secret.

How does that help anyone?

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You are wasting our time and yours by posting this fogbabble. There is nothing to be said unless and until you decide to tell your husband your truth. Regardless of what your [dark] Spirit Advisor says, lying and fraud is not of God.

Why are you wasting our time?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by violette
[My husband does not have a problem with my training partner. We went to dinner with him and his wife once. They like each other. I just was thinking about the no opposite sex friends policy.

This is a sham, though. Neither your husband or the man's wife know you are an unrepentant adultress and liar. That is why they have no problem with this emotional affair. You are dangerous but they don't know it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by schoolbus
You are lying to your husband for many reasons.

First, let me tell you "thank you" for saying that my post was so accurate it was scary.

Let's talk about your lies. I want you to understand yourself a bit, so you can consider moving past the lies.

You have to understand that I know you could lose your husband, and that you worry about custody of your kids. Think also that your kids are teenagers, and in most states teenagers actually CHOOSE which parent to live with. Anyways...


Lies. There are basic reasons for lying behavior. Yours are fairly mundane and classic. I don't see anything unusual behind your lying about your affair. Here are your motivations, in a nutshell:

Not in any particular order, BTW

1. Fear of being judged negatively by your husband, and his revealing this to the rest of your family, and their consequent negative judgement.

2. Fear that your husband will immediately leave you, and summarily file for divorce.

3. Fear of the loss of the respect and love of your children, and that they will choose to support your husband as the result of your behavior.

4. Financial issues.

5. Fear of uncertainty of how the family might work if there were a divorce; how would weddings work out, where would you live, logistics of a divorce itself and the immediate needs you would face, trying to explain this situation to everyone, etc. Just the overall initial drama and fallout would be very difficult.

6. In the event that your husband elects to remain married, fear that this would involve a great deal of work, and that you are not sure that this is even what you want at all. Fear that your husband is not the person you want to remain married to, that he cannot "change", and that you have not loved him for a long time and probably cannot love him again even if you tried. Fear that you and your husband could not get past the affair business, and that it would be held against you for the rest of your married life.



That's just a few reasons for continuing the lies.



Here are a few reasons for telling the truth:
not in any particular order

1. You and your husband could talk openly about the state of the marriage prior to your affairs, how the marriage got to be what it was, and actually discuss HIS feelings about the relationship, as well as yours.

2. Your husband could tell YOU what his dissatisfactions were with the marriage. At this point, you know yours, but have little to no input regarding his point of view - except your own assumptions and disrespectful judgements about his.

3. Your husband and you could make informed decisions regarding the future of the marriage, based on complete and accurate information about the true history of the marriage. And this could be done together - not unilaterally, which you are currently doing, with the input of people who are NOT IN THE MARRIAGE, and with people who are getting only BIASED information, from YOU.

4. Your husband will be afforded at least a fair opportunity to CHOOSE to change, to CHOOSE to recover the marriage, or not, based on complete and truthful information. He may not realize the truth of his life. He may very well feel that his marriage is stagnant, that his wife has grown away from him, that he is lonely, that he wants "more"......and that he is searching and lonely for that woman he used to be married to.

and has not been able to connect to for a long, long time.




Your husband may very well be wondering how to save his marriage.



And you are out there looking OUTSIDE the marriage

and ignoring the one person who may be capable of helping save it.




There are only TWO people in your marriage.

You.
and
Your Husband.


Both of you need the truth in order to make reliable decisions.




When the two of you sit down to put this marriage back on the tracks, what would you do if he said,


"Six years ago I had an affair with four women".



I'm just wondering.
Because that could happen to you......or to him. One day, it WILL happen to him - the number of years or months will change, but it will happen.


You control when he finds out, and how he finds out.

Or, you might be the recipient of the news, because the environment in your marriage is obviously ripe for affairs. YOU are creating that environment. I am warning you for this, because the first half is done - your affair.


I hope your husband has better boundaries than you have.


You need to talk to your husband.



Schoolbus

I am either the typical cheater or you are good at reading people. Fears are spot on.

The problems about the list of what might happen seems like a fantasy. So much work for a man I feel nothing for. It would be for the kids. And they will be out of the house soon anyway. And no my husband does not love me either.

He could easily have affairs. He travels all the time, works late and does not tell me where he is. I never contact him at a work number. Just his cell phone so he could be anywhere. Women call the house and cellphone and he goes to business dinners with women alone. I really don't care. If he left me for another woman, my problems would be solved. No need to tell.

You think I keep secrets, I am an amateur compared to my husband. He has even bought a home and never told me. Found out when I read the electric bill for an address I didn't recognize. He purchased it 3 months earlier. Told me that he forgot to tell me. He had a lot on his mind. He hides things about the kids, investment, his family and work. We are really not dealing with one liar in the family. Maybe one cheater but definitely not one liar.

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Schoolbus has given you some good information.

So when are you going to act on the advice? It will not get easier if you wait.

You will certainly know which of your fears are founded and which are not when you come clean with the truth.

Then you will know.

Right now you are just speculating with yourself, which doesn't do anyone any good.

If he throws you out, you are likely better off for not being with someone who cannot or will not forgive.

If he seeks a path of forgiveness and reconciliation, you both have the chance to grow personally and together.

But things don't get better until you make the move you've been told you need to make.

So what if you get thrown out. You get a job, you get an apartment and you take care of yourself like the adult you are. At least you wouldn't be dependent on a man you don't really like, with whom you are unwilling to be truthful.

Every day you fail to tell, you build up resentment because you feel he holds the cards and you are at a disadvantage. How does not telling help you? It doesn't.

Use the advantages you have. You know what happened and you have a plan here in the MB materials to build a marriage that can last and one you both want.

But you cannot use your advantages until you act and begin the plan. The next step is to come clean. Until you do that, you are at a definite disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by violette
Am I better off alone or in the prison that this plan creates? What do I owe my husband? What do I owe my kids? How does God fit into this plan? Should I just divorce and file for annulment? I will have to come completely clean in the annulment and my husband will read everything I did in my childhood and marriage. I actually feel like things are getting more foggy then clear.


You are foggy because you continue to lie. Things will not become clear until you stop the lies. Stop lying.

This is my last post until I hear the words 'I told my husband'.

My time is valuable, even if yours isn't. Stop lying your life away.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You are wasting our time and yours by posting this fogbabble. There is nothing to be said unless and until you decide to tell your husband your truth. Regardless of what your [dark] Spirit Advisor says, lying and fraud is not of God.

Why are you wasting our time?
[GloveOil apes moderator:]IMO, this is a little out of line. The original poster's thinking is certainly way foggy, and she is not necessarily making best use of her own time, and the ramifications of not telling the truth to her husband are still a huge issue that she has yet to confront, but she's not wasting anyone else's time here, because no one is forcing any of us to read her posts. Let's continue to give true advice & continue to do a great job calling BS when we see it, but let's not make it about us, the volunteer posters.

Besides, I'd rather have her here online thinking about what we're saying than hanging out with her older-guy friend or 'spiritual advisor'...


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted by GloveOil
[[GloveOil apes moderator:]IMO, this is a little out of line. The original poster's thinking is certainly way foggy, and she is not necessarily making best use of her own time, and the ramifications of not telling the truth to her husband are still a huge issue that she has yet to confront, but she's not wasting anyone else's time here, [/color]

Sorry but I disagree. She is wasting our time. And hers. We need to be realistic about our abilities with someone who is clearly not serious about recovery. And she is not serious. There is nothing we can do with someone who is only here to get validation to continue deceiving her victim.

When a falling down drunk arrives at the AA meeting, they don't tolerate his ranting and raving, they show him to the door because we know it is hopeless. You can't reason with a falling down drunk. In any church that follows the Bible, they show the unrepentant sinner [who refuses to stop sinning] to the door.

As long as this person is not serious, she is wasting our time and hers. This is not the place for one who is committed to a path of deceit and fraud and until she gets serious, she is wasting our time. And I will continue to point that out.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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YOu are deliberately planning FOR YOUR PARACHUTE in case the marriage fails BECAUSE YOU CHEATED.

And now you are blaming the victim.

BLAMING the victim, your wayward husband, whom you REFUSE to feel zero sympathy for, or feel for, all you're worried about is REPURCUSSIONS FROM YOUR ADULTERY. You are worried for your own butt and could give a rats' azz about you marriage. You even make it SEEM like your wh is a cheater WITHOUT GIVING KNOWLEDGE OR EVIDENCE. That's kinda really crappy of you imho.

That's like blaming a rape victim for dressing provocatively. Like saying SHE ASKED FOR IT.

AND IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE!!! But you MAKE it an excuse and it don't fly.

You're so fogged out that I bet in 6 months when you read your own words you will be nauseated at them.

Listen, I am definitely 100 percent bowing out to you because you refuse to do a bit of work if it interferes with you crafting your own parachute. It interferes also with you ending your so called "friendship" with this man.

You know something, HAVE YOU TOLD "FRIENDS" WIFE THAT YOU IMAGINE HER HUSBAND AS THE IDEAL HUSBAND AND THAT YOU HAVE BEEN A CHEATER? I bet she would put up the guards and walls around her marriage asap. She would SEE you for the wayward and potential homewrecker you are. YOU ARE A THREAT TO HER MARRIAGE AND A POTENTIAL OW, because her husband (also wayward) is meeting YOUR en's and runnign to YOUR rescue and pretending to be your knight in shining armor.

Btw, IS THE MAN YOU HAD THE AFFAIR WITH MARRIED TOO?

Maybe some others will come to your rescue and answer some of your future questions, but I'm not gonna enable you to keep posting here wasting valuable time of those WHO HAVE DONE THE WORK.

Last edited by peachyisback; 08/07/11 03:42 PM.

Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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Now go do the damn work or hit that other site Mel told you about and hang with the skank hos.


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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violette,

You feel nothing for your husband because you are giving nothing.


When it comes to relationships, you will gather a return on the investment in proportion to what you give. It is a simple mathematic proposition.

If you give love, your odds are much higher that the return on the investment that love will be returned. If you learn the way that the other person best receives your investment of love, your interest on the returns goes much higher.


Read LOVE BANK. Invest in his.


SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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Originally Posted by peachyisback
You know something, HAVE YOU TOLD "FRIENDS" WIFE THAT YOU IMAGINE HER HUSBAND AS THE IDEAL HUSBAND AND THAT YOU HAVE BEEN A CHEATER? I bet she would put up the guards and walls around her marriage asap. She would SEE you for the wayward and potential homewrecker you are. YOU ARE A THREAT TO HER MARRIAGE AND A POTENTIAL OW, because her husband (also wayward) is meeting YOUR en's and runnign to YOUR rescue and pretending to be your knight in shining armor.

Btw, IS THE MAN YOU HAD THE AFFAIR WITH MARRIED TOO?

Maybe some others will come to your rescue and answer some of your future questions, but I'm not gonna enable you to keep posting here wasting valuable time of those WHO HAVE DONE THE WORK.


My training partner is married and he is not the older man. The older man is not married. One of the men that I had an affair with was married. We have not had any contact in about 3 months. No physical contact since Jan 3rd.

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Originally Posted by schoolbus
violette,

You feel nothing for your husband because you are giving nothing.


When it comes to relationships, you will gather a return on the investment in proportion to what you give. It is a simple mathematic proposition.

If you give love, your odds are much higher that the return on the investment that love will be returned. If you learn the way that the other person best receives your investment of love, your interest on the returns goes much higher.


Read LOVE BANK. Invest in his.


SB

I have read it. I spent 4 hours in the car with my husband yesterday and barely said a word to him. He told a few stories and tried to lighten the mood. I am the problem right now. I am working on it. My family is visiting and will be leaving next weekend. I will not tell him before they leave.

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Originally Posted by peachyisback
Now go do the damn work or hit that other site Mel told you about and hang with the skank hos.

I am not looking for a site to be gentle and condone my behavior if I was a certainly wouldn't be here. But I am making a life decision and I am not going to do it without thinking it completely through.

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Originally Posted by violette
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Now go do the damn work or hit that other site Mel told you about and hang with the skank hos.

I am not looking for a site to be gentle and condone my behavior if I was a certainly wouldn't be here. But I am making a life decision and I am not going to do it without thinking it completely through.

There is nothing more to "think through." You know that lying and deceit are the wrong thing to do. You are tricking your husband into staying married to you. More time for "thinking" is just a delay tactic.

There is nothing we can do for you unless you make a decision to tell your husband the truth. This is a marriage support forum, not a liar's support forum. This is not the forum for you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by GloveOil
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You are wasting our time and yours by posting this fogbabble. There is nothing to be said unless and until you decide to tell your husband your truth. Regardless of what your [dark] Spirit Advisor says, lying and fraud is not of God.

Why are you wasting our time?
[GloveOil apes moderator:]IMO, this is a little out of line. The original poster's thinking is certainly way foggy, and she is not necessarily making best use of her own time, and the ramifications of not telling the truth to her husband are still a huge issue that she has yet to confront, but she's not wasting anyone else's time here, because no one is forcing any of us to read her posts. Let's continue to give true advice & continue to do a great job calling BS when we see it, but let's not make it about us, the volunteer posters.

Besides, I'd rather have her here online thinking about what we're saying than hanging out with her older-guy friend or 'spiritual advisor'...

Thank you. I post in several forms and ignore people that I do not feel are worth my time.

All I know is that I am trying to figure things out and I am sorry that it is not on their time table.

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Originally Posted by violette
Originally Posted by schoolbus
violette,

You feel nothing for your husband because you are giving nothing.


When it comes to relationships, you will gather a return on the investment in proportion to what you give. It is a simple mathematic proposition.

If you give love, your odds are much higher that the return on the investment that love will be returned. If you learn the way that the other person best receives your investment of love, your interest on the returns goes much higher.


Read LOVE BANK. Invest in his.


SB

I have read it. I spent 4 hours in the car with my husband yesterday and barely said a word to him. He told a few stories and tried to lighten the mood. I am the problem right now. I am working on it. My family is visiting and will be leaving next weekend. I will not tell him before they leave.

I encourage you to take this time to tell him AND your family now.

I believe you said before they would support him. Supporting the marriage would be the best. Enabling or excusing your affair would be the worst.

Seems like a great chance to come clean to a whole host of folks who should know what's happened and perhaps enlist them to hold you accountable for your behavior if they are wise choices to be advocates for a good marriage. If they are not, perhaps they should still know the truth, but not be called upon to do anything but listen to your confession.

Don't let a good opportunity slip away because of fear of looking bad.

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