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180 #2536728 08/19/11 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: 180


Yes I did. It was "better now" or something close to that.


Make an effort to remember exactly the other MB member name(s) you used to hide your identity.
It is important. For you.

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FWIW I read the language that is turning people off as the product of unsophisticated diction - perhaps combined with an overeagerness to impress/make amends - rather than arrogance.

kerala #2536738 08/19/11 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: kerala
... an overeagerness to impress/make amends - rather than arrogance.


I agree, though arrogance is a trap that a newly repentant wayward may fall into. (IMVHO.) This is what I was getting at. That, and a note to caution against thinking this recovery stuff has a finite endpoint.


Me - 30 (FWW)
H - 30 (BH)
DSx2
D-day: 2008
180 #2536756 08/19/11 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: 180
I knew your advice would be solid but wasn't ready to face all of you.


But the advice isn't solid when you omit important details. When you select what details to share, what you get is not advice, but a response you manipulated so that you can hear what you want to hear.

So I guess you got what you wanted.

Ready to be honest, yet? What were your other posting IDs, so we can see what you said, and help you face it? If you don't remember, I'm sure you can invest some research and find out. I'm always amazed what I can find out on here with a little researching.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
180 #2536963 08/20/11 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: 180

I fully expect what will be coming to me.

Here it is.
My response.
First of all, the above comment really irritates me.
I am not here to dish out punishment or take you to the woodshed.
You are a grown woman. Take yourself to the woodshed.
And what's more, you make this sound as if what you "fully expect" is something harsh or bad.
What if what is "coming to" you is insight based on a deeper awareness and understanding of the damage you caused?

You ask me (and others) to accept your apology without a full appreciation of the ways in which you abused us. You might be genuine in your total absence of understanding of the ways in which you have hurt people. I suppose that is possible. Sad, but possible.

So, this is the gift I offer you.
Enlightenment of knowing the truth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is how you harmed me, personally.

Historically, I was usually willing to assist the new WWs.
I quite enjoyed being a part of lifting her WW fog veil and getting a first hand look at her rebirth.
Walking with a sister as she sets herself free from the bondage of her double life = a joy.
Now, not so much.
If I even get a whiff of chicanery I bail out.
I am far more vigilant to fraudulence and monkey-business, which might be a reason to thank you, not forgive you.
I am tired of helping people who I discover are lying to me. Call it burn out.
This pessimistic approach to the new WW's does not look good on me, but it protects me from further harm.

I miss my optimism.
I miss my confidence.
I miss my positive attitude.

What I gained was self knowledge.
Knowledge that online (compared to in person), I am far less able to determine who is sincere and who is not.
Knowledge that once I learn a MB poster has lied to me (us) on a "little thing", it is best not to trust that he/she will be honest in the future.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, onto the harm I saw that you caused others. Either directly or indirectly.
Once you positioned yourself as a FORMER WW who was working MB, are you aware of how many BH's looked to you for hope and inspiration?
These wounded husbands usually seek out a FORMER WW and ask them questions to help them understand their actively WAYWARD wife. Then, come to find out you were not at all "former" .... they give up. That's right. Their hopes for their WW ever turning around crash and burn. BIG damage done. To the BH. To their children. To the marriages that might have been helped by the MB plans .... why try MB since it does not "really work" anyway?

Other struggling WWs who might have looked up to you as a success story .... are now left wondering if they really can save their marriage.
If they remain on the forum, the WWs who actually want help might not receive the attention they need because of old-timer burn out. (like me)
WW's who remain posting might be the recipient of secondhand vitriol from other MB BH's who are struggling with trust issues based on your deceptive ways.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, now you know exactly what you are asking forgiveness for.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I forgive you.

I do not trust you.
I never will.
This is a forum and I have limited resources to verify facts that come into question..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God Bless

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Ditto to what Pepper said, but I have to add in, that I am a bit MORE cynical of what I read and have a tendency to try to quickly break thru ww and wh fog rather quickly. My crap-o-meter is finely tuned.

I am not a hand-holder to the wayward, and believe that quickly letting them know the state of the affair and how it is destroying their state of their union is what I establish quickly. The quicker you see the reprehension in your actions, the better FOR YOUR MARRIAGE and possible recovery. Ending the affair to me, is the best and quickest outcome. And it takes sometimes a hard hitting and thought provoking question or assessment.
But I wish you well in your SINCERE desires to heal. Baring the soul is freeing the mind and freeing the soul. I pray you truly open yourself up to the whole truth and send any remanants of the wayward side to you packing for good.

Last edited by peachyisback; 08/20/11 03:18 PM.

Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
180 #2536981 08/20/11 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: 180
Think long and hard about what you're doing and what you have to lose. Humility and radical honesty are key. You're dealing with many people's lives here, not just your own.


Your own words. Do you mean this now?

Prove it.


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Once you positioned yourself as a FORMER WW who was working MB, are you aware of how many BH's looked to you for hope and inspiration?
These wounded husbands usually seek out a FORMER WW and ask them questions to help them understand their actively WAYWARD wife. Then, come to find out you were not at all "former" .... they give up. That's right. Their hopes for their WW ever turning around crash and burn. BIG damage done. To the BH. To their children. To the marriages that might have been helped by the MB plans .... why try MB since it does not "really work" anyway?


I formally and directly thank the few de-fogged, repentant FWW's here from whom I have heard.

It is their perspective which helped me begin to let go of some of the white-hot rage I felt toward my own FWW.

And for the freshly betrayed, gooey remorse-puddle BH that shows up here just looking for hope, looking for light... a dishonest, disrespectful, fogged out WW is a knife being turned in the gut with every post.

It is natural of us to look toward our peers... and when an alien takes over the body of our beloved... we want to know the experience of those who beat the hostile invasion.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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I remember Muted Sparkle well.

For me, it is interesting that the last time I read the words "my heartfelt apology", they came in Nov 2009 from my H's OW in an email she wrote to me. Her husband insisted she write the apology and at the time, she was in email/phone contact with my husband professing their love. Where's that little gag icon?

I am a cynic. On these boards, it is often referred to as "being bitter". I don't feel bitter, but I do listen/read WW's and those professing to be FWW's with scepticism. Actions over time scream over words.

My question is, "How is it possible a FWW/WW with a failed marriage and a BH/WH can contribute on this forum?" The marriage tanked. Did 180 and her H actually read/learn/apply MB principles? Don't think so. Does 180 actully know MB principles now? Maybe, maybe not.

AM

Last edited by armymama; 08/20/11 07:39 PM.

BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2537030 08/20/11 07:42 PM
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Sadly, I think most waywards here are sorry because they got caught.

And the "good idea" that was the affair or their affair partner turned out to not be that princess in distress or that knight in shining armor they thought they were.

But we DO see rays of beautiful sunshine and some lives of ws turn around! I am so blessed by their arrival here.

I too, got the horrible email from the ow. She said she was sorry and was turning from the affair by turning to her faith.

All she really did was talk my then wh into attending in SECRET of course, a "song of Solomon" conference WITH him so she could convince him (he had gone NC with her) that she was ONLY his friend and that SHE was wanting to help him heal our marriage.

the "reformed" ow, showed my H how to heal our marriage by sleeping with him the night after the conference. Yea where IS that pukey icon?


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
armymama #2537032 08/20/11 07:51 PM
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Point well made AM, and taken.

What I want to know is, why change your posting name anyways?

This is only for YOU, because I really don't need the answer. If you were truly repentant and want forgiveness, why wouldn't you keep the old name? That is who you were here, and the persona you would be asking for forgiveness.

Also, already, you have started this thread on a very bad foot. You came off as hostile, and unforgiving yourself. That says a lot about what you need to work on.

And, I see that you are unwilling to share information about your past(namely your XWH). There is a lot of trust that people place here. WHile it is an anonymous board, it isn't fantasy or fiction. These are REAL people behind these words, and many of them are hurting and trying to get past that hurt the best they can. Please remember that when you want to HELP and maybe, instead, read, read some more and LEARN yourself.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Originally Posted By: 180


Thank you both, for recognizing my honest sincerity


Be mindful.

John 12:43


Good passage. Of course you know he's speaking to unbelievers here, right? wink


Celtic Voyager
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3 young adult children


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Originally Posted By: lostman101
Wow, im impressed to hear such remorse and honesty out a former wayward of not that long ago. Good luck 180.


Ditto. 180, I look forward to reading your posts. I wasn't on through all the mess, but I've been on forums for a long time. I've seen people change and am optimistic that by God's grace people can and do sincerely change.

CV


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AM,

But, not all. Gloveoil and Wolfpackgirl? And, other BS's Ws's that don't post here. And, Markos and Prisca as a team for example? I find these guys encouraging, no?

I don't blame anyone here for the likely proven suspicion (oxymoron) that some come here for a false pat on the head, but there are many that are true.

Surfer88 #2537076 08/20/11 10:11 PM
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In the interest of full disclosure and for those who may have forgotten/never read the original thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2258358&page=1

Having re-read this, I think those who see arrogance in some of the above posts are, sadly, correct.

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Originally Posted By: armymama
My question is, "How is it possible a FWW/WW with a failed marriage and a BH/WH can contribute on this forum?" The marriage tanked. Did 180 and her H actually read/learn/apply MB principles? Don't think so. Does 180 actully know MB principles now? Maybe, maybe not.


Maybe I have nothing to contribute here either. I know I read over my thread the last few days, and I was an arrogant little drama queen when I landed here last year. I have stayed b/c I genuinely want to learn, and I have learned, even though I am in a M that is rapidly doing a great impression of the Titanic b/c of what I did. And I genuinely like many of the posters here, and I want to help, if there's any way to help people avoid the mistakes I made in my M and failed recovery.

I'd hate to feel as if there was no place for me here, because here is the only place where I find any hope to fight for my M. I don't get that from family, from friends. This is the only place where I feel like I can find something that gets me to pick myself back up and live to fight another day.

I read over 180's old posts as Muted_Sparkle. I can completely see how she hurt so many of you.

I've been told I am naiive to a fault and much too trusting of people. But if people can't change, then why are any of us here?

And I'm saying this on the heels of my H telling me, just a couple weeks ago, that I haven't changed. I told him that I wished he could see what's in my heart.

But I know it's hard to see what's in someone's heart. It's hard to see true change through only words, especially words written on an anonymous web forum.

Me, I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt, b/c I am curious to see what 180/M_S has learned. I'm curious to see how someone else made it through the h3ll they created by having an A and losing their M. The FWS's who stick around are all pretty much in M's that are in various stages of recovery. They made it. There aren't many of them.

What does a person do, when they lose everything that matters, and it's all their fault?

That's my question.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
kerala #2537079 08/20/11 10:29 PM
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Thanks Kerala! Dang...75 pages and before my time here...:)

I agree with you, though. I guess I just wanted to point out that there are many that are not arrogant. I'm pretty much stating the obvious though.

Surfer88 #2537080 08/20/11 10:29 PM
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Surfer,

Of course, not all. There are many, many (both former WSes and BSes) who read, understand, and apply MB principles. They are beacons to others who arrive here in the daze of wreakage from the "worst thing that will ever happen" in most of our lives. These people offer hope of recovery, personal and/or marital. I am so thankful to have been able to read and apply the material on this website and the forum. Without MB, I believe my FWH and I would be divorced. Instead, we are perking along, getting better and better as time passes. There is nothing more boring than a thread of a couple recovering on the recovery forum. But, it is a really good kind of boring to the formerly BS/WS.

There are a few who arrive here who never "get it". There are some who do not read the materials. There are some who take short cuts. There are some who pick and choose MB principles and then wonder why their marriage is not getting better. There are a few trolls. And there are a few who are here for whatever personal reason.

I am grateful there are folks here who can sift through the wheat and the chaff. Meanwhile, I remain cautious for maybe a longer time than most.

As I said in my post, I remember Muted Sparkle well. I have not heard that much from 180 yet. I hope there is a story of great personal recovery to come. Until then, what is the validity of advice to newbies?

AM

Last edited by armymama; 08/20/11 10:36 PM.

BW - 65
WH - 60
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
DD - 44, DS - 30, DS - 23
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2537082 08/20/11 10:35 PM
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Just wondering, did Spartan post here as well? I was unable to find anything when I searched, but I'll keep looking.

ETA - Found it - Here

Last edited by wulffpack_girl; 08/20/11 10:48 PM.

FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
armymama #2537084 08/20/11 10:59 PM
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Agreed, not all, and was ridic of me to imply that, if I did.

"And there are a few who are here for whatever personal reason" = I am one of them. smile

You are 100% correct regarding advice to the newbies, of which I consider myself.

Carry on, Major AM. I always appreciate what you have to say here, and you ARE one of those beacons. I'm not suckin' ass, BTW...I mean that!

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