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Oh! If you go here http://www.drclay.com/set-your-metabolism-on-fire/ he offers a free e-book. You just have to submit your email and he'll shoot it off to you. It is fantastic. It gives eating suggestions, a weekly eating setup, etc etc. The guy knows his stuff.


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great links, will check them out and order book, I did just get Jamie Oliver's cookbook but lots of meat recipes and I'm not crazy about meat at every meal. Thanks for the links, can't wait to look at them. Looking at what Melody posted for food, yes, we eat healthy. And, I get that I can't change my needs. I was hoping, but I get. And it really does seem like we should be able to find 2 hours a week to work out. I do but he needs to find what time works for him. Kilted, one question and I'm not being sassy but with all your "stuff" going on do you and when do you spend time with your family?? Just curious. We love to spend time together and just feel like we can never get enough of it. Time for him and I, and time with the kids. And, thanks for the url fix, broken page thing, I think it worked, much easier to type!

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I'm home all on Saturday and Sunday. My evening schedule varies between me being home between 6pm and 8:30pm through the week. I'm also home by 5 on Fridays.

So Monday through Thursday can be quite hectic. So the kiddos might not say see me much on Monday...say like 30 minutes but then I get home earlier on Tuesday so we can have supper and family time, etc. And I am home all day Sat and Sun. One priority I do make is to get 15 hours of time alone with my wife. While it is important that the kids spend time with me, it's an absolute must that my wife and I have that time to connect. The kiddos will be fine not seeing dad once or twice a week because I'm getting home late but it wouldn't be so if mom and dad weren't in love and there was stress and a disconnection between the parents. On the days I'm home past when they go to sleep, I make sure I call and talk to them a couple times through the day and evening.

Luckily I'll be done with teh last of my classes in April and then just have to concentrate on internship during summer when I'm on paid summer break smile


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And, one more question regarding pa. I find having pa as a high need fairly depressing because as much as I would like to say people are just as or more attractive at 75 as they were at 30 or 40 I just don't think they are. So, what happens to all those people who have pa as a high need and they get "old." How do they all cope with that? I'm just wondering and realizing that even if dh looses weight, as we age we all tend to sag or show more "imperfections." I just don't feel that at 70 we will be able to keep up the fitness level enough to meet my pa needs (like a well-toned belly.) Am I waay off base or does pa become more and more of an issue for people as they age??

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Perfectly good question. Dr. Harley does address this. One has to maintain reasonableness in their expectations. For example, if weight bothers teh husband/wife, then the otehr spouse should keep the weight off. Just because we get old doesn't mean we have to be fat. My grandmother is 78 and still jogs up to 5 miles a day, goes to the gym to lift weights a few times a week.

Jack lalane was still in great physical shape in his 80s. Maybe "ripped abs" might be unrealistic but not being fat isn't an unreasonable expectation.

But if you expect your spouse to look like a supermodel at 80, then that is unreasonable. In other words, if it's impossible, the expectations might be a bit high.


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Ace, I think Dr. Harley is pushing 70 or so, and still works pretty hard to maintain his weight. I think I've even heard that his wife, Joyce, has a high need for an attractive spouse.

To have a good marriage, both partners have to learn a way they can be enthusiastic about meeting each other's needs. The approach you are investigating here, trying to alter your needs, is pretty much impossible. If it were possible, Dr. Harley (a behavior psychologist) would have a thriving business teaching people how to do it.

What is so hard about being open and honest with your husband about your needs? I mean, I can see why that would be hard, but it's easier to learn to do that than it is to try to alter what turns you on.

Are you a little bit scared of your husband's reaction if you reveal this need to him?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Ace, have you read the Basic Concepts here?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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While a 70 year old might seem unattractive to you now, it won't seem unattractive when you are also 70. Just because a person ages, does not mean they become unattractive. I think Dr Harley is around 70 years old and he discusses how he pays close attention to his appearance by watching his weight, etc. One of Joyce's top needs is PA too.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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At the Marriage Builders weekend seminar, Dr. Harley spoke to us about how he has to fill the fridge with frozen dinners and stick to those, so he keeps his calories completely controlled and controls his weight. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I'm just wondering and realizing that even if dh looses weight, as we age we all tend to sag or show more "imperfections." I just don't feel that at 70 we will be able to keep up the fitness level enough to meet my pa needs (like a well-toned belly.)

You seem to be mistaking "attractive" for "perfect." A body doesn't have to be perfect to be attractive.

And Dr. Harley has said that tastes change as you age. I've already seen this in my life -- the 18-20 year olds I use to would've thought of as hot just look like punk kids to me now.

And I've seen 70 year olds with well toned bodies. It all depends on the work you put into it.


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Originally Posted By: ace1
And, one more question regarding pa. I find having pa as a high need fairly depressing because as much as I would like to say people are just as or more attractive at 75 as they were at 30 or 40 I just don't think they are. So, what happens to all those people who have pa as a high need and they get "old." How do they all cope with that? I'm just wondering and realizing that even if dh looses weight, as we age we all tend to sag or show more "imperfections." I just don't feel that at 70 we will be able to keep up the fitness level enough to meet my pa needs (like a well-toned belly.) Am I waay off base or does pa become more and more of an issue for people as they age??


ace,
I've wondered about this too. I also asked here some months ago if EN's changed over time or with various circumstances and the answer was "yes, to an extent" -- however, I don't know if that answer would apply specifically to PA.

I also wanted to add a different spin that was occurring to me as I was reading your thread. It relates to a radio show topic where Dr. Harley was talking about men who have "sexual addiction" and do things outside of marriage bond to satisfy their impulses. The basic answer was that the man would need to make the wife his SOLE object of that impulse behavior for the problem to be "fixed."

Apply that to PA. Are there comparison points between your husband and other men? I think with PA it's easy (especially in this culture) to set awfully high standards. I think my GF is attracted to me and has a reasonably high need for PA but I hope she doesn't spend too much time thinking about what it would be like to date the cover dude on Men's Health magazine - I'll never match up!

Also, something that hasn't really been addressed here, with the focus on the weight: what else does your husband do to make himself attractive to you? Does he dress sharply? (I know when I was in school it wasn't a priority). Does he groom a lot? I know some guys who are a bit overweight who make the women swoon because they know how to put themselves together.

just some thoughts.

optimism


Me: 43 y.o. BFWH, D-day 11/11/09 (NC since 9/01)
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From my teenage years, I have only been attracted to men of normal weight. PA is usually more about maintaining a normal weight than about having a pretty face. I always knew that if the man I married gained weight and became fat, I'd have a problem with it. I wished for many years it wasn't that way with me, because my H gained 50 pounds over the next ten or so years we were married. His extra weight was something I always had a hard time with, and I'm not a shallow person or fixated on male models from magazines. All I wanted was a reasonably slim husband.

So now, finally, my H has been working on losing weight. He has gotten himself down to what I consider attractive, although he's still about 10 pounds overweight according to weight charts. I am SO delighted with this and complement him frequently and run my hands up and down his body, which he loves. SF is frequent, because I'm truly attracted to him again. It's not that I ever wanted a "hard body" with washboard abs and big arm muscles. Just a nice normal-weight body is great.

Dr. Harley recommended that we should be exercising together and eating less calories AND that we'd probably have to give up eating what he calls "tasty foods," which encourage us to overeat.

Although I'm of normal weight, I did this with H and it has really helped H--and it keeps my own weight easily in line. We drink no wine or beer at all as of a month or so ago, and we very much enjoy our glasses of wine. But we had to think what we loved more. So we gave it up, for now, at least. We work out in the gym together, which H proclaims makes the world of difference in his motivation.

For meals, we eat very simply: fish and vegetables, meat and vegetables, no desserts.

We eat a hot breakfast, and I make H a hot lunch every day for him to bring to work. After working out in the gym, we get home around 7PM, with our appetite subsided with the recent workout. So we just enjoy maybe a bowl of soup (Progresso makes pretty decent soups that are low in calories.) Sometimes we don't even eat dinner. I make us latte tea, which is heated frothy skimmed milk sweetened with stevia and a nice flavored tea.

In place of eating a full-on dinner, we sip our teas while playing a favorite game.

The biggest problem we have with what we do is that it doesn't match up very well with what everyone else does here, which is late dinners and nearly every social event geared around food. But for the most part, we can make it work.

The results are very rewarding for both of us.


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Quick question; are you doing anything or going anywhere that you may be creating a contrast effect?


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Ace1,

Well speaking as someone who you might categorize as "old" mr eek I will tell you that people's perception of what is good looking changes. I still would find a young model attractive or a young movie star, but the reality is that I would NEVER be attracted to them. You see attraction involves more than just PA as you age you will see that more. My W who is in her 60's is very attractive to me, probably would not have been when I was 30. My W was very thin when we married, and she is still not fat, but she has some weight around her midsection. She has had 3 children and she is in her 60's. I find her carrying this weight in her midsection attractive because she is all woman. And she is MY woman. I don't want her starving to look like she did at 20. I don't want her with 6 pack abs like some guy. I want her to be a woman...more importantly a happy woman. She eats well, and she is very active, and she smiles. And don't even get me started on the BMI index because it is pure and simple bogus science with little validity.

Ok, now speaking as a scientist, let me say gaining weight is about eating more calories than you burn. It is that simple and it really doesn't matter what you eat, never mind, the current dietary theme of the month. Stress helps put on weight via people eating/snacking more, eating comfort food, and changing the metabolism. Your H works a full time job, he is working on his PhD which is stressful and is intended to be in most fields, and he is married with a family.

I don't know much but I do know he is STRESSED. Further, 1-2 beers is equivalent to an hours workout if not more. So is a candy bar, etc. So even if he worked out more he isn't going to lose the weight. He will have to eat less.

Although he may be bigger than you, right now given what you have said you probably lead a more active life and burn more calories, thus can eat MORE than he can and maintain weight.

So let's address this PA. I agree a need is a need, but you will find if you read the infidelity forum for long that peoples NEEDS change with their perspective. Talk to someone who's spouse has had an affair (yes even men) and you will see that needs change. Most men would not say communications with their w is a high need, but after their W having an affair, you better believe that most would list communications and HONESTY much higher than before. Physical attractiveness often slides abit as well.

If you are looking for a man with no physical "imperfections", then perhaps you need to divorce your H and find the perfect one. But, often those without physical blemish are very "imperfect" on the inside. It is really your need and your call, but I have to ask why did you married your H?

I am not trying to convince you to change your "need". I am saying examine it and see if your need for PA is actually some combination of other needs that when added to the normal PA need is making yours seem more extreme than some.

Just thoughts. I hope they help.

God Bless,

JL

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Hey, Hi, Mr. JL....

Long time, no chat! Glad to see you here. I don't post much here which is probably a good thing since two "Ace" posters might become confusing.

Originally Posted By: ace1
And, one more question regarding pa. I find having pa as a high need fairly depressing because as much as I would like to say people are just as or more attractive at 75 as they were at 30 or 40 I just don't think they are. So, what happens to all those people who have pa as a high need and they get "old." How do they all cope with that? I'm just wondering and realizing that even if dh looses weight, as we age we all tend to sag or show more "imperfections." I just don't feel that at 70 we will be able to keep up the fitness level enough to meet my pa needs (like a well-toned belly.) Am I waay off base or does pa become more and more of an issue for people as they age??


You're asking how some people cope with the inevitable affects of aging. We've been married for nearly 40 years and our attitudes from our college days are definitely different from our perspectives now regarding our health and bodies.

Here's how we changed them (or how they evolved naturally).

1. Focused on inner qualities and forced negative physical thoughts to be replaced with positive spiritual ideas.

2. Developed our world views together and evaluated how our healthy bodies could help us accomplish those visions and goals as we near retirement.

3. Separated fantasy from reality and established priorities accordingly. (Yes we all could have Jack LaLane abs at 90 but are we willing to put in the time an effort it takes if it detracts from our other priorities --- like playing with grandkids or whatever things are might be on a bucket list?)

Best wishes, Ace1....you're asking difficult questions but keep seeking answers.

_Ace_

P.S. Here's another thread from over a year ago entitled How Healthy Habits help Marriage Recovery that may have some discussion related to what you're asking.

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Quote:
Ok, now speaking as a scientist, let me say gaining weight is about eating more calories than you burn. It is that simple and it really doesn't matter what you eat, never mind, the current dietary theme of the month.
I'm glad you addressed this, JL. I meant to get back to this and got side-tracked.

Calories are units of heat. To lose weight a person needs to take in fewer of these units than they burn off.

Beer is a lot of empty calories that many people add to their regular calorie load. If the calorie load taken in is lower - even with the beer - than they burn off, no weight will be gained. And the converse is true, as well. If a person maintains their weight when eating normally, and then adds beer to their calorie load while exercising normally, weight will be gained.


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It's real important in dieting to understand that all calories are not the same. A gram of fat is metabolized much differently than a gram of carbohydrate.

From The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Jeff S Volek, PhD, RD, and Stephen D Phinney, MD, PhD:

Is it Simply "Calories in, Calories Out?

We hear this all the time. The more people hear it the more people believe it must be true. Similar to the phrase "a calorie is a calorie,' weight control becomes deceptively simple. Except weight gain and weight loss are far more complex.

We now know a lot more about macronutrient effects on hormones and gene regulation and how these relate to fat storage and fat utilization. To continue to push the simplistic calories-in-calories-out mantra limits our therpeutic options. This is especially tragic for people who are carbohydrate intolerant. In the long run they will likely fail in making long term diet changes with a low calorie approach which is generally low in fatg and high in carbohydrate. This leads to weight cycling and ultimately a higher body fat. Not only is this physically damaging, but there is also the psychological cost of adding another failure, more guilt because of lack of "will power" and lack of control.

And from "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes

"Of all the dangerous ideas that health officials could have embraced while trying to understand why we get fat, they would have been hard-pressed to find one ultimately more damaging than calories-in/calories-out. That it reinforces what appears to be so obviousobesity as the penalty for gluttony and slothis what makes it so alluring. But its misleading and misconceived on so many levels that its hard to imagine how it survived unscathed and virtually unchallenged for the last fifty years.

It has done incalculable harm. Not only is this thinking at least partly responsible for the ever-growing numbers of obese and overweight in the worldwhile directing attention away from the real reasons we get fatbut it has served to reinforce the perception that those who are fat have no one to blame but themselves. That eating less invariably fails as a cure for obesity is rarely perceived as the single most important reason to make us question our assumptions, as Hilde Bruch suggested half a century ago. Rather, it is taken as still more evidence that the overweight and obese are incapable of following a diet and eating in moderation. And it puts the blame for their physical condition squarely on their behavior, which couldnt be further from the truth. http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/why-we-get-fat/


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Excellent point, Mel. I have found that I am able to lose weight faster when I cut down on carbs and load up on non-carb veggies.

Here's a good website for managing weight gain if you're a beer drinker: here


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Originally Posted By: maritalbliss
Excellent point, Mel. I have found that I am able to lose weight faster when I cut down on carbs and load up on non-carb veggies.


I'm with you! All vegetables are carbs, but the low carb ones are the best for weight loss and are much more nutritious. My favorites are green spinach and green beans.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: maritalbliss
Excellent point, Mel. I have found that I am able to lose weight faster when I cut down on carbs and load up on non-carb veggies.


I'm with you! All vegetables are carbs, but the low carb ones are the best for weight loss and are much more nutritious. My favorites are green spinach and green beans.
My bad, duh - I WISH there were NON-carb veggies! I love broccoli and cauliflower. (Did you know that you can make a low-carb version of mashed potatoes by using cauliflower? And it's actually tasty?)


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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