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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane

Dr Harley DOES recommend exposing an affair, even if it is years after discover. So I would definitely expose the affair to the OM's wife and probably your children.


Here is my first post to this poster about exposure, and I did not tell him it was "urgent." However, for what possible reason would exposure be put off? If exposure is therapeutic and helpful to the recovery of the marriage, is there some reason I am not aware of that should inspire him to put this off? Shouldn't healing start NOW? Why later?

What am I missing? think


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Exposure should happen ASAP. The affair is 20 years old to the OM and WW and it's brand new to the BH.

There is no harm by exposing ASAP. All the BH has to do is get the OMW on the phone and tell her what happened.

Those that say not telling the OMW is saying it's ok for three of the four spouses involved to know and leave the fourth one in the dark.

Lying by ommission is being justified by those that say not to expose the OMW.

This WW has only partially confessed. I not referring to a WW not giving all the times and places and what the did and was said.

She has not confessed to all the people that need to be told of her actions.

This OM has never been held accountable for invading a family as a thief in the night to leave a cancer to fester for 20 years.

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Quote:
The affair is 20 years old to the OM and WW and it's brand new to the BH.

This is the critical part emotionally. And this is what she just doesn't "get".

Dead for her, but devastatingly alive for him. This is a tough one here. Not quite sure how I would deal with this. Well, actually, I do, but I won't communicate it on the board.


Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.

-Ralph Waldo Emerson


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OK, I am going to try this again. He is being pushed to expose her affair to the children and OMW. If exposure was the ONLY or the MOST IMPORTANT part of the MB program, Dr. Harley would not have written not one book, not two books but many books on building and rebuilding a relationship and a marriage.

A main Tenant of MB is honesty and even states in his book that radical honesty is between man and wife, not necessarily the children.

I will boil down my post to him in this sentence. He is crushed by his W's affair and he needs her help to recover.

As Harley pointed out many many years ago, meeting needs is a hit or miss business unless the couple know each others needs and make plans to address them.

I STRONGLY FEEL AND I CANNOT EMPHASIZE IT ENOUGH, THAT HE AND HIS W NEED TO HEAL AND THEY NEED TO DO IT WITH A PLAN.

His W is not in an affair, there is no rush to end the affair, Pep gets that why don't the rest of you? What is needed is the two of them figuring out a way for her to help him heal. She wants to help him. She apparently loves him and that love has grown until her guilt forced her to confess after....20 YEARS. They both need support but first the must have a plan.

I am not against exposure, never have been but of all of the things this poor man needs to be dealing with exposure is not it now. Perhaps in the future, and frankly the person that should expose to the children is his W, she is the one that cheated on him.

Recovery is not a cookbook, and if it was the Harley's would be out of business because they already wrote the book.

JL

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Originally Posted By: indiegirl
What are you talking about JL? Are you seriously suggesting the poster lie to his childern and let the betrayed spouse figure stuff out for herself?


So, yes you advocating these lies JL by referring to it as 'revenge'.

Willical, I think you are struggling with no support network. Please tell your friends and family to help support your marriage by telling them the truth. I can tell by your post that you need as many shoulders to lean on as possible. Dont fear peoples reactions.

As your wife is on board with recovery and beginning to practice radical honesty you can both expose together, side by side.
If you do exposure in the right way, it isnt vengeful it is support for you and your new, more honest relationship

Last edited by indiegirl; 02/08/12 03:06 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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**edit**

Last edited by MBsurvivor; 02/08/12 10:06 AM. Reason: TOS disruptive
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Exposure is not just a tool to end the affair.

It also
1) Heals the marriage by ending all the secrecy
2)Prevents a resumption of the A
3) Prevents accidental triggers if friends/family are aware of what happened
4)Allows the truth to be verified with the other spouse
5)Protects the other BS from being lied to
6)Provides accountability for the WS
7)Accountability provides reassurance for the BS
8) Allows the WS to repent and apologise to ALL they have hurt
9) The repentance of the WS provides further reassurance to the BS.
10) Support from those close to the marriage provides support to the BS in overcoming the resentment.

Dr H says there are only very specific circumstances, such as violent relationships, when exposure should not be used.

This is not one of them.

Mel has already posted Dr H's words on old affairs, so i will not repeat it.

I am q simply flabbergasted people are advocating lying instead of following MB advice on this thread


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: weld
I am sure even Dr. Harley would agree with me that there are a few unique situations where it would be better to leave the past in the past.


Yes he does say there are exceptions. Melody Lane has posted a link where he describes those exceptions.

you can also call him on the radio if you would like to review the MB advice from Dr H himself.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Willical, is not the first BH to be oblivious about his WW doing her OM while their children know it. This affair could of happened this way his kids know and willical doesn't know that they know.

I have not seen the new George Cloony movie The Decendants, but this could be what happened to Willical's kids. Kid's know when things are wrong in the house.


Time for school for these kids:

These kids need to be told that it was always ok to talk about what they saw and suspected with mom. With both mom and dad.

That if mom asked them to keep it a secret that keeping that type of a secret was wrong. Wrong for mom to ask wrong for them to feel obligated to keep it. If this did happen they need to be told they were put in a wrong place by mom. Mom needs to apologize to the kids.

The kids need to apologize to the dad (now after being taught what they did back then was wrong). The dad to tell the kids it was ok because of the situation but they have learnt an important lesson that will serve them well through the rest of their lives. Then the group hug.

As to telling and shocking the OMW. She is being lied to everyday of her marriage. Odds are that Pride Of Spain OM got away with no consequences 20 years ago he has ruined many other marriages and hence repeatedly cheated on his BW.

Well as far as I am concerned the teller of the truth is not the shocker. The actions of the OM are what is going to cause the shock to the OMW. The BH did nothing to this OMW. Her own WH did this to her.

As to doing exposure for revenge. Revenge is not the reason to use exposure. I will not restate all the fine reasons for exposure. Indiegirl and melodylane have covered that well already.

But revenge is a consequence of exposure even if no revenge was sought. Set off an A bomb the fallout is the result.

APs dont want exposure because they dont want the fallout. They were selfish. Thought that if they keep the affair down low no one would be the wiser. And there would be no consequences.

Well WW took the odds. Thought she had a sure thing. WW bet the farm on not geting caught. Well as any where else you bet the house expects to get paid. Legal operation will lawyer you down into the ground. Illegal operation will break legs, give free plastic surgury.

Exposure has never resulted in organized leg breaking or organized facial reconstruction. And you can't file a suit in court for being exposed.

Well as when as a child you are taught not to place with matches. Then if you do so. Dont complain if you get burnt.

And if it takes 20 years later to be burnt. Well whos fault they lit a very slow fuse. The WW still lit the fuse.

The guilty party did the crime now they need to do the sentence.

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Originally Posted By: Just Learning
OK, I am going to try this again. He is being pushed to expose her affair to the children and OMW. If exposure was the ONLY or the MOST IMPORTANT part of the MB program, Dr. Harley would not have written not one book, not two books but many books on building and rebuilding a relationship and a marriage.


First off, no one said it was the ONLY part of the MB program. That is your own straw man. The reason exposure is being discussed so much is because as Harley said, "it is the first step toward redemption." He doesn't say the last step as you suggest. However, your second statement indicates you don't listen much to Harley if you don't understand that exposure is the MOST IMPORTANT part of recovery:

Originally Posted By: Dr Harley

What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lovers spouse should be informed. Granted, its embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption.


Exposure is such an important part of recovery that Dr Harley has rewritten HNHN and is rewriting Surviving an Affair to include it.

Originally Posted By: Justlearning
A main Tenant of MB is honesty and even states in his book that radical honesty is between man and wife, not necessarily the children.


Read above, that is not his position at all.

Originally Posted By: JustLearning
I will boil down my post to him in this sentence. He is crushed by his W's affair and he needs her help to recover.


I agree that he is crushed by her affair and that she needs to recover. That is WHY we are telling him to expose the affair, so he can get the support he needs and so she can actually RECOVER. She cannot recover as long as she keeps her affair secret. The more people who know, the more people to hold her accountable. In order for her to recover, she has to tell her other victim what she has done. She can't claim to be sincerely remorseful if she doesn't make sure the OMW knows what she did.

And I fully AGREE they should focus on other elements of the program too. But there is no reason to ignore this one important element or to put it off. There just is no good reason since it is a THERAPEUTIC step.

There is no reason to keep the affair secret, other than to avoid embarrassment. And that is the worst possible reason.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Just want to emphasize this one statement:

Originally Posted By: Dr Harley

"What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lovers spouse should be informed. Granted, its embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption."
here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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ML,

One of the other striking features of this affair is that 3 of the 4 main players EXCEPT BH knew about it for some time. That is a difficult pill to swallow, in my case OM2 GF knew, but I'm not sure OMW knows as my W was in between GF and OMW.

God Bless
Gamma

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Originally Posted By: Dr Harley

[b]"What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lovers spouse should be informed. Granted, its embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption." here


The good doctor could not be clearer on this issue.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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OK, it has been stated that the OMW "knows" about the affair by posters. I went back and looked at what the OP said about this.

Originally Posted By: willical
by the way. The OM wife does know. She has known. She called my wife 20 years ago during and reamed her, but it continued. She told me all this. I'm not so sure about the "porr boundries around men" anymore, perhaps back then. She really is a different woman now and I am a different man. She doesnt want me to make contact for fear of how it will affect my kids.


My read of this is that his understanding that the OMW knows is from what his WW told him. Not because he has spoken to OMW himself.

The fact that WW doesn't want him to make contact with OMW is a big redflag that this is a lie.

For any lurkers out there, NEVER EVER take a wayward's word that the affair has been exposed to the OPS. ALWAYS call them up yourself and make sure they know the truth.

Besides, the fact that the affair continued for years after the supposed phone call by OMW is enough to warrant a phone call to her to make sure she knows the ENTIRE truth about the affair.


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Originally Posted By: Gamma
ML,

One of the other striking features of this affair is that 3 of the 4 main players EXCEPT BH knew about it for some time. That is a difficult pill to swallow, in my case OM2 GF knew, but I'm not sure OMW knows as my W was in between GF and OMW.

God Bless
Gamma


Been here too... My W got caught by OM2W. Called my wife, chewed her out and threatened her. We were unlisted, so OM2W went through the phone book and looked up our last name... Only a few of us here in town, all relatives (brothers and parents). Called my brother and since my brother did not know who she was, hung up on her. The A could've ended MONTHS earlier (Jan. instead of June)for me had she continued to go through the phone book and call my parents or other siblings and expose.

It wasn't until I caught them and exposed to OMW that I found this out. Exposure is SOOOOOO key here.


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Originally Posted By: SusieQ

OK, it has been stated that the OMW "knows" about the affair by posters. I went back and looked at what the OP said about this.

Originally Posted By: willical
by the way. The OM wife does know. She has known. She called my wife 20 years ago during and reamed her, but it continued. She told me all this. I'm not so sure about the "porr boundries around men" anymore, perhaps back then. She really is a different woman now and I am a different man. She doesnt want me to make contact for fear of how it will affect my kids.


My read of this is that his understanding that the OMW knows is from what his WW told him. Not because he has spoken to OMW himself.

The fact that WW doesn't want him to make contact with OMW is a big redflag that this is a lie.

For any lurkers out there, NEVER EVER take a wayward's word that the affair has been exposed to the OPS. ALWAYS call them up yourself and make sure they know the truth.

Besides, the fact that the affair continued for years after the supposed phone call by OMW is enough to warrant a phone call to her to make sure she knows the ENTIRE truth about the affair.
Originally Posted By: celticvoyager
Originally Posted By: Gamma
ML,

One of the other striking features of this affair is that 3 of the 4 main players EXCEPT BH knew about it for some time. That is a difficult pill to swallow, in my case OM2 GF knew, but I'm not sure OMW knows as my W was in between GF and OMW.

God Bless
Gamma


Been here too... My W got caught by OM2W. Called my wife, chewed her out and threatened her. We were unlisted, so OM2W went through the phone book and looked up our last name... Only a few of us here in town, all relatives (brothers and parents). Called my brother and since my brother did not know who she was, hung up on her. The A could've ended MONTHS earlier (Jan. instead of June)for me had she continued to go through the phone book and call my parents or other siblings and expose.

It wasn't until I caught them and exposed to OMW that I found this out. Exposure is SOOOOOO key here.


Two very good posts.

And as Susie said you can't take a WW's word that the OMW knows. I have seen too many OMW here that were never told.

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