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Welcome dip436,

I'm just curious if you have read any of the articles that have been posted to you, that the others have posted to you? Especially the articles on abuse by Dr. Harley?

I just don't want to post them all again if you aren't going to take the time to read them. Will you read them and then ask questions?

Just trying to help.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
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I understand DR.Harleys point totally .. so dont get me wrong. Just trying to be helpful from an objective point of view and offer some soluble solutions and advice.

You do understand that Dr Harley is not only very objective, but very educated in this field? He has counseled thousands of people over 40 years and when he says things like this, I wouldn't dismiss it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
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I understand DR.Harleys point totally .. so dont get me wrong. Just trying to be helpful from an objective point of view and offer some soluble solutions and advice.

You do understand that Dr Harley is not only very objective, but very educated in this field? He has counseled thousands of people over 40 years and when he says things like this, I wouldn't dismiss it.


Oh absoultely ... I DEF do not dismiss what he says. I am just having a hard time identifying just how much abuse calls for such drastic measures such as separation as suggested.

What if they could just get back to EN meeting .. and stop lovebusting. Could the abuse stem from their lack of EN meeting? What if they fell in love again using the program. Is it not a possibility that the physical abuse may never resume if they are both treating each other right after the realization of what has been going wrong in their marriage?

I am in no way condoning her husbands behaviour. He SHOULD go to anger management since he has been physicaly abusive in the past and COULD do it again.. but use the program the right way and it may never be an issue again if they are in love?

Sorry ML ... maybe i should stop while I am ahead ... I have a skewed version of what physical abuse is i guess ... or what level of it warrents such drastic measures. *shrugs* No one took any measures in my family ... other than divorce when things didnt go well ..

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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
[What if they could just get back to EN meeting .. and stop lovebusting. Could the abuse stem from their lack of EN meeting?

That can't happen though until he resolves his anger problem. That prevents them from doing anything. And I know Dr Harley's advice might seem extreme to you and I, but ask yourself why? You have to keep in mind that he has treated hundreds of these cases and we have not. He knows a lot we don't because he has seen ALOT in his professional capacity.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Dr. Harley's advice on separation when domestic abuse exists is not only his own expert opinion, but the bare minimum opinion of ALL experts in domestic violence - programs, DV counselors, therapists, social workers, police officers, etc. In fact, Dr. Harley stands out in that he actually suggests a separation and attempt at reconciliation rather than a straight divorce and no contact for life.

That advice is based on not thousands, but millions of reported domestic violence incidents, and thousands of injuries/disabilities/homicides. It is not to be taken lightly.

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Thanks for everyone's recent advice. I am trying to process all of this, but my head is truly spinning. I will definitely read all of the articles and links given to me, but have an entire day filled with my kids' activities, so will have to do it this evening. I just didn't want to not respond, since all of you took your time to give your advice. I will read through everything and then post back here with more questions. Thank you, again! I really appreciate all of you!

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I have read all of the links, most of the articles on this site and listened to many of the radio archives, especially about Anger, Abuse, etc.

My husband and I have had many talks (and a few fights) this weekend over this. He knows I am at the end of my rope and considering separation. I want to do what is right for my kids and for me. But, to completely turn my kids' world upside down for something that last happened over a year ago, is hard to do. My husband is really good at emotional games. Despite the fact that he has hit me in the past, he would turn it around on me and play the victim--that it has been over a year since he did it and he's been trying to change, etc. I would be the bad guy, when all I am guilty of is putting up with a very difficult husband while being a supportive and loving mother to my 3 children.

He has agreed to seek anger management counseling. He researched ONE counselor over the weekend, which is progress, but I suggested he follow some of the advice on this site about how to select a counselor, so he doesn't just use the first one he finds. This is too important for him not to find the right person.

He ordered some of the MB books last night on Amazon. He wants me to read them and participate in the program with him. I just don't know if I can do it right now. I am very, very angry and feel that I am not ready to fulfill his emotional needs. He has hurt me so much from all the lies that I don't see myself being able to negotiate a Joint Agreement or stop the love busting, when all I feel is anger toward him. I know this thread has talked mainly about the abuse. It is wrong and bothers me, but in my head, it's something I KNEW about. The most recent lying, hiding things and looking at porn online is that thing that, on top of everything else, has pushed me past my limits. This made me feel so betrayed and has caused me to lose any remaining love and all hope.

This weekend, I went on his laptop again and looked at the history. There were no porn sites or views of naked women, but I did find that he viewed images that I found to be offensive. He looked at an album on Facebook of guns and women. Many of the photos were just guns, but many involved pretty, half-clothed girls holding guns. He said he just clicked on one of his friend's links and briefly browsed through them. He doesn't even own a gun or like guns. It doesn't make any sense. I am furious that he chose to look at those images. He knows I have lost trust in him so if it would have been me and I clicked on a link and then it brought up images with women like that, I would have immediately had a red flag go up and close it down. He initially defended what he did, but eventually said he was sorry. I feel like right now he should be bending over backwards to not do things that offend me or break more of my trust and yet everytime I search, I keep finding things. I wish I had more trust in him to not care that he was looking at something like that, but the fact that this has been such an issue in our marriage the last month, it just feels like another betrayal and is a sign that he is not going to change.

If he begins counseling for his anger and online issues, should I agree to participate in the MB program or agree to read the books? Every time he starts to tell me his feelings or things that I have done to upset him, I feel that he doesn't even have a right to be upset after everything he has put me through. I don't know if this will get better over time or if I will always resent him? Do I need counseling, too? I just want to stop hurting and be happy again.

Thanks, again, for your advice.

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dlp, you will stop feeling resentful when he stops doing things that cause resentment. Everytime you find things on his computer like you did recently, all of your resentment comes flooding back. He has to stop that NOW if this is to work and start showing some care. You might want to make it a rule that he only goes on the computer when you are there with him.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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dlp436 Offline OP
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Yes, I have read your post. Thank you. He uses his work laptop all of the time. He is in Management and has work to do most evenings and weekends, but he also uses it for personal use, too. I am not able to install any programs onto his computer, so it will not work. For now, he has given me his password to get on the computer and I do check it every now and then, but he has admitted in a fight before that he wouldn't be dumb enough not to delete something that would be incriminating. Not sure why he wouldn't have deleted this FB history, but he is pretty busy, so I don't think he always thinks to cover his tracks. Either that or he wants me to find this stuff??

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ML, I agree. We had a few conversations this weekend that started to make me feel hope. As soon as I found the images, it definitely makes it all come back, only worse. I get angry with him and angry with myself that I could allow myself to think he could ever change or that we could ever work things out and be happy. He tells me that looking at these images means nothing to him. YET, it means A LOT to me that he continues to do it. So, if it doesn't mean anything, why does he risk my trust?? I just would think if he truly wants to work things out with me, he'd be going above and beyond to make things better, to earn my trust, to try to make me want to forgive him... That is what I would do if I had hurt someone that much. If he can't try now, when we are in the very beginning stages of seeing if this will work, what will he do a year or 5 years from now?

My parents loved each other with their whole hearts until the day my mother died. They were married 48 years. They didn't do anything without each other. They went grocery shopping together. To the mall together. I only heard them raise their voices to each other just a few times in the 18 years I grew up there. My life is so different than how I grew up or how I ever wanted my marriage to be, that I find myself questioning every decision I have ever made. I want someone that loves me. I want to love them back. For my kids' sake, I want to try and make things work, but I just don't see how I will forgive him... What can *I* do, to start healing, with or without him?? I stay at home so have been wallowing in my sorrows, I have an aunt on hospice that is going to pass away any day, our schedule doesn't leave me ANY time for myself to relax. I am definitely bordering depression right now and need to find a way to be positive and happy again. Thanks.

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dlp436 Offline OP
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"Why can't you?"

I don't know how you copy previous comments, but I will reply to your comment in quotes...

He is not even able to install software on his laptop without permission, I believe. Big company, lots of rules, even with his position, he still has limitations... Despite our issues, I would never do anything that would get him in trouble or interfere with his work things.

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What you can do to copy peoples posts is hit the quote button and copy the entire thing .. then you open a new window with MB in it again .. so you can SNIP from one page and post it into your reply in another page and then edit accordingly before your final posting.

Edit for spelling...

Last edited by MrNiceGuy; 04/02/12 01:37 PM.
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I would put it on there anyway. Wouldn't it be worth breaking a "rule" to find out what he is doing? What are they going to do if they find out?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by dlp436
He is not even able to install software on his laptop without permission, I believe. Big company, lots of rules, even with his position, he still has limitations... Despite our issues, I would never do anything that would get him in trouble or interfere with his work things.

One common theme to those of us that have or have had problems is that we usually have to hit rock bottom before we actually make a change.

While I understand your reluctance to install spyware on the company laptop (as noted in your other thread), at some point you'll have to decide what standards you require for you to stay married to him and relay that to him. It would then be up to him to either oblige by making the necessary changes or it would then fall to you to use the "or else" that you have in your pocket.

In my opinion, flat out demanding that your husband quit looking at naked chicks on the internet is not a love buster.


Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

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