Fantastic.

Excellent radio clips on DJs and AO. Dr. Harley even talks about how he has had to deal with his own anger. He says DJs to him are the one thing that can set him off.

Also excellent radio clips.

Tell us what you think.
Radio clip on DJ/AO
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

What resonated is the part about her husband blaming her whenever anything goes wrong. I've said since day on on this forum that my wife is a blamer, even over stuff that most people might consider silly. It could be that she was just looking for someone/thing to blame and I was the easiest target? Just thinking out loud, not sure if I'm going anywhere with it.

I thought the same thing.

Hill .. I just wanted to apologize for jacking your thread (or contributing to it) I am just trying to help you and giving you info that has helped me and my wife. I hope you found some value in what i wrote....

MNG

Hope to see day 2 of NO DJing tomorrow!

Hill, my marriage had a ton of blaming, too. How about a little O&H (openness and honesty) followed by a thoughtful request? We uses to call this drive-by O&H as a reminder that in a thoughtful request an answer isn't necessary. I really think you'll be surprised at how much the "letting go of the response" part of thoughtful requests defuses the atmosphere of blame.

I used to read the Friends of Good Conversation article every day before my XH got home. Reminded me how to be fun and light, like MNG discussed. Hard to stay cranky/blaming with someone who is talking about things you enjoy to investigate, inform and understand you. What do you think?

I would say something like "Wow that tone just got right under my skin, please knock it off, thanks! So do you recognize the music?"

MNG, there is value and I understand exactly what you were saying and why it works. It wouldn't work for me to verbalize it, but being aware of the time of the month is something I'll be doing.

Today is Day 2 of the NO DJ Zone. My plan is working, but it will take some time. What I didn't think about that is a positive result of eliminating my disrespectful behavior is that everything else I'm trying to accomplish has become easier. When my wife doesn't have a bitter taste in her mouth about the last DJ I made, she is more receptive to letting me meet her ENs. I just keep trying to picture a chart like those one's for a blood drive with a big ole mark on it which represents the threshold of love. I don't know how many days it may take, but I know that I'm determined to eliminate the DJs to prevent any further backslides.

On another note, in learning the MB process, have any of you observed friends or family and the level of disrespect that is rampant in marriages today? It continues to amaze me observing how the majority of spouses treat each other. It could just be my group. I find the level of sarcasm and "belittling" of spouses in public to be sad. My wife and I certainly spent many years doing this and in fact my wife still does at times which is something I need to be prepared for.

Hey, you listened! Great! I was a little bit worried earlier that you were missing the clips BH is posting. BrainHurts is like our new Marriage Builders Radio encyclopedia. It's like having someone bring Dr. Harley into every single discussion on this website, which I've got to say has been a massive improvement.

Regarding blaming -- I have heard Dr. Harley say that he has very low success teaching wives not to blame their husbands. (I heard this in two clips from 2006 or 2007. Maybe BrainHurts can find them. ) In a way this is very discouraging to me, because you know, I HATE TO BE BLAMED! In fact, we all do. I've even heard that in cases of affairs, wives typically blame their husbands for the affair whether it was he or she who went wayward. BUT, and this is the encouraging part, Dr. Harley says that despite this blaming, he has succeeded in teaching these couples how to have good marriages. (i.e., in love)

I think he's saying that eventually, if the husband keeps making Love Bank deposits and "translating" her disrespectful, blaming criticism into respectful complaints, and actually coming through on addressing the complaints, she will come on board and quit being so disrespectful to her husband and at the least keep her disrespect to herself so that he can be happy and so that they can productively resolve problems instead of pointing fingers. But it sounds like it takes a lot from us husbands to stay calm and end the cycle of abuse every time it stops and not respond defensively or argue about who is to blame, etc.

That's tough for us emotional guys to learn how to do, but I think I'm a lot better at it than I was a year ago, and two years ago I know I could never have dreamed of doing that. It turns out I don't have to straighten my wife out if she's wrong, even if what she's wrong about is whether I'm to blame.

For the record, I don't hear Prisca blaming me for things nearly so often as I used to two years ago!!!! As a result, I am a much happier man! One thing that happened was that at Dr. Harley's suggestion, I had to jump in and become a partner for her in coping with and solving the problems in life that brought her down, even though this was often extremely emotional for me, often a minefield where I had to avoid DJs like the plague, and occasionally in the past was not something we could talk about without me being blamed.

(Okay, and honesty time: sometimes I WAS to blame!! )

Yes I'm working hard at joining my wife in her daily life's struggles. I'm learning not to take it personally. If she complains a bit about something she is just "venting" to me. She wants someone to understand is all. She might doing in a way where I feel attacked quite frequently, but this is not her intent.

I also think a huge element in a lot of cases, and certainly in mine, is that many men take everything literally. I know that I'm an extremely literal person. It has been difficult for me to learn how to read my wife when she says something or behaves a certain way. This drives me crazy because I'm not a mind reader and I've many times felt so hopeless(thus the name of my thread). Even now I want to yell out "What do you want from me?"

It sounds like you are doing great, Hill. YES, she will become more receptive to love bank deposits! Something you were doing that annoyed her last year, turned out deposit two love units last week, and deposits ten love units this week, and next month may deposit fifty love units! The trick is to realize that as she comes out of withdrawal, she becomes willing to let you meet her needs, which finally makes significant love bank deposits possible.

Until you poke the snail! :P (Ask me how I know. )

The other trick is to not get discouraged when something that should deposit fifty love bank units only deposits one. I know that was my mistake for at least the first six years of our marriage. I took that as a sign I must be doing something wrong, and stopped. Meaning no deposits. Instead you have to build habits now that will sustain for life and will be massive love bank deposits when she is ready, and automatic for you because they are habits.


Yes. Something that amazes me is to watch marriages on TV shows I watched as a boy. All problems are resolved by disrespect! You show your spouse what a louse they are being, they feel guilty, they repent and straighten out, and you live happily ever after until next week's thirty minute segment.

In real life if you try that with your wife you make her life a living hell, and the guilt doesn't motivate her to change anything other than to not want to talk with you again.

The Huxtables taught me that romantic love could be sustained throughout life, but unfortunately they also taught me the lie that sometimes you should straighten out or mock your mate.

Dr. Harley says there are essentially two cultures coexisting side by side in America. One has generationally intact and happy marriages, one does not. Both cultures find the other culture weird and incomprehensible. He's from the good marriage culture, and early in his counseling career he couldn't help people, because he talked to them in ways that made sense to him, but not to them in their Renter/Freeloader culture. He, a Buyer, had to learn to think like a Renter and like a Freeloader.

We get people here posting all the time about how unrealistic Marriage Builders is. They are from the Renter/Freeloader culture, and sometimes they are extremely disrespectful to Buyers. (I'm talking really nasty, some of these people! Hateful! Why would anybody be mad at other people for trying to have a happy marriage?) But 20% of marriages out there are doing this stuff, whether they are aware of Marriage Builders or not. Some people, those people, are just part of a Buyer culture.

Some of us aren't lucky enough to know a lot of Buyers in person. I'm sad to say, most churches I've been a part of have taught Renter ideas, and plenty of people I know are convinced these ideas are Biblical truth.

But people freely move across cultures every day. Generations transform. Buyers become Renters/Freeloaders, and Renters/Freeloaders become Buyers.

Besides a happy marriage, the Buyer culture tends to be transmitted to children, and subsequent generations tend to be happier, healthier, and even wealthier. Hence the huge wealth gap in America.

The Marriage Builders mission is one of advancing the Buyer culture. But Dr. Harley's strategy is to get people to fall in love first, then adopt the Buyer's agreement/culture that will sustain it for life.

Yes, me too!

I bought a biofeedback meter at the recommendation of one of Dr. Harley's newer articles, and I started putting that thing on when we talk about things that are bothering Prisca via IM. Guess what? Turns out I become extremely stressed during those conversations. Just tabbing over to that window stresses me out!! BUT, it really is true that practicing makes perfect and I can learn to stay calm while thinking about the issues, and when I do that, I do a better job of not making love bank withdrawals during the discussion.

You had mentioned that last week I believe about the IM conversations. Would you say that you get stressed because your mind is anticipating conflict? Was it customary for Prisca to be disrespectful or demanding through instant message or text? It is funny you mention that because I have the same anxiety stress over texts. I had one yesterday where she asked if I could pick up our son, even though I had already arrived home and would have to get back in the car and drive 15 minutes to get him. I for a long time and even now am afraid to say no to my wife for fear it would escalate into conflict. I offered because I knew it would make her happy but she said, "No don't worry about it." That was the end of the discussion and she wasn't mad and probably wasn't mad before if I declined to do something. She was only mad if I would decline disrespectfully.

Yes, I get stressed due to anticipating conflict. When certain subjects come up, either Prisca, or I, or both immediately become afraid, due to our history of not having resolved these things and having fights about them. I imagine it's that way in any marriage where issues have piled up.

As we have whittled down the issues I think it's gotten better. As I learn to stay relaxed while discussing emotional issues, I expect our rate of whittling down the issues to increase.

For the record, this morning when I relaxed with my meter, I did so well that the tone went down below the range of human hearing. But that wasn't during a conflict.

Thats GREAT Hill! Glad to see day2 no DJs ...

And in regards to your comment about noticing the high levels of disrespect in friends and family's marriages. I notice it ABSOLUTLEY. My entire family craps all over me when i bring up MB as I watch their levels of disrespect ramp up all the time. I feel that alot of my family is now jealous of my wife and I and the marriage we have. They cant bring themselves to take on MB to have what we have. When they start talking about things in their marriages/relationships and not knowing what to do about it and i bring up MB .. i get that "oh no not this again" look ALMOST as if i was about to preach to a non jesus believer who cant stand listening to it.. and they change the topic and stop talking about their problems to us. I find it quite sad to watch them .. my wife and I discuss our other familys marriages all the time.

If you had read my thread you would know my situation between my wife and I was similar as yours .. my wife and I used to go to our family for support when we struggled and they would love to hear our problems and offer solutions that NEVER WORKED! (we tried their suggestions but it only drove us futher apart, no wonder they have crappy relationships and seem to hate us sometimes). ONce we got the core of MB instilled in us (after I worked the program and convinced my wife she should too) something was still missing ... MB didnt have everything to fix me. I was a very needy/emotional/unmanly/demasculated guy.. like you. My wife would often tell me .. "stop being so needy! its VERY unattractive!" and things like "Cant you just let whatever happens happen and not put so much pressure to have sex all the time? Wheres the fun loving laid back emotionaly stable guy i used to date" .. even if it was weeks since our last SF session. If i couldnt find a way to be more of a "no big deal, let everyhting roll off my back kinda guy that doesnt get pushy or whiny or needy about his needs being unmet" I would have never gotten to where I am today in my relationship with my wife .. even with MB.

I had to become NOT needy at all ... and use some role reversing on her .. and act like i was not interested in sex .. (for a while) and play it up like I was hard to get in order for her to want me. And do alot of the things i said earlier. I dont always tease.. or bug her .. or rag on her. But when I do .. its subtle and she finds it quite funny at times .. other times not so much. I make mistakes too in some of my cocky ways.. or joke about the wrong thing. IF i do .. my wife just says . "hey .. that ones a love buster!" so i would then say "ok .. thanks for letting me know .. or "your right, I should have known that" and i carry on from that point like it didnt happen, let it roll off my back and I remember for next time. She then carrys on like it didnt happen either! My wife is AMAZING now .. we vibe so well together!

My wife has turned full circle and is the initiator now for alot of our afections/sf and like i said can hardly keep her hands off me because she can count on the fact that if things dont work out .. or we get too busy for needs to be met for whatever reason .. i dont get all needy over it. I roll with the punches and shrug it off. ITs a Whatever then .. I just think to myself .. "we are going to be togehter forever .. so theres always another day!

Whats really helping us this week is we have 9 days with NO KIDS! For the first time ever. Getting caught up in our UA time big time! We both have to work .. but its sure nice coming home to no responsibilities! They went to the Calgary Stampeed with my dads common law wife of 20 years. They come back next sunday. For some strange reason I dont miss them yet lol ... LAst weekend i took my hunneh out 4x4ing .. and fishing. She loves fishing. WE bought a cheap 2man boat that has 2 rod holders and sat in it and tied off to a tree sticking out of the lake and floated around casting and chatting all day. WE plan on this next weekend too .. heading to another lake i have never been to way out in the boonies.

Keep up the good work Hill .. things seem to be coming together for you as your more aware of your wifes triggers and being more of a laid back guy and not taking things so personally all the time.

Looking forward to day 3 no DJing!

MNG

edit to add minor detail.

Yep much of this resonates and gives me promise. There are some successes you've had that I want very much to have in my marriage. I want my wife to be into me, I just have to give her a reason to be.

You got it man! ... One day you will look back on the things i said and be like "wow .. you were right, its working now"

It takes time .. and practice for your new habits to take place. Just as it will take time for your wife to stop testing you on certain things. Eventually she will feel safe that cuddling/touching doesnt always have to lead to sex ... that was one of my wifes biggest problems .. becasue I would go without my needs met for a long time she would not want to touch me in fear I would beg or whine .. or get needy in regards to making more out of it than she wanted. When she did give in (as a chore in her mind) I would want more .. or i would complain it was not good enough .. or i didnt last long enough ie: neediness. I no longer care about that anymore. Whatever happens .. happens .. and because of that mind set .. it happens far more than it ever did. She feels safe now becasue she can touch .. and get me all fired up .. and then stop and I wont care I encourage it!. Mind you i express my sexual prowness in a subtle and humorous way that relives the tension about it. After all I am a man .. and a sexual and visual being ... I cant be afraid of it nor afraid to make light fun of it either. If it doesnt pan out in my favor .. no biggie .. whatever .. there is always tomorrow or another day. Make light of it and continue to have fun in whatever you can come up with to drop the subject.

One of the lines i use often with my wife now is " HEY DONT TOUCH ME THERE!" in a playful way of course say after she brushes me as she walks by or something subtle like that and she usually responds with something like " Dont touch you where.. HERE?" and then slaps my [censored] or something" SMiles at me and walks away. I will usually try to playfully dodge her to prevent her from touching. haha.. she loves it!

MNG

Edit to add minor detail.

Thanks. Here's a good show.
Radio clip on diasgreement and blaming
Segment #2
Segment #3

(Okay, and honesty time: sometimes I WAS to blame!! ) [/quote]

[/quote]

The take away from that first segment is that people have different perspectives on things and no matter how crazy you might believe your spouses perspective is, you have to respect it. Something in my marriage that comes up a lot is that my wife spends hours and hours researching things for the house. It is very important to get things "just right" and just how she likes them. It drives me crazy and has led to many fights over the years. I have a different view. Life is short, get 'er done, so we can go enjoy our day! I don't get her perspective and she doesn't get mine, but if I can appreciate how important things like that are you her, and she can appreciate that it does not make me happy painting the walls three times(tongue in cheek), then we'll come to an understanding about it and hopefully POJA to something that makes us both happy.

Another great clip.
Please listen to this clip on blaming.

Tell us what you think.
Radio clip on the blame game