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I would ask her for a poly. Polygraph Testing


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FWW/BW (me)
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
I would ask her for a poly. Polygraph Testing
I plan to do so once the "honeymoon phase" of recovery has passed and there has been more opportunity to stray.

[quote]Email your questions to Joyce Harley

Ok. I am currently doing coaching with Steve. His opinion so far is that it's just too soon to have any useful data. For example, the first week post-exposure (when I found the note), my F?WW has said many things that I have had to choose to ignore, or that don't make sense.

Since 9/25, my F?WW seems to have made a decision to make the end goal of this having a good relationship with me vs. getting something that she wants (either money, or fear of me trying to destroy her life post-divorce).

I have no idea what to do post-divorce. I plan to defer to Steve's advice and/or e-mail the radio show for more input into that situation.

A big part of me desires to let someone else create the conditions that will make me fall in love with them next year. If my F?WW wants to do it, great.

I am feeling my Love Bank balance dropping by the day. I have enough to make it a few more months, but I sure can't go on like this forever.

I am seeing the wisdom of Plan A followed by Plan B.


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I am confused

Originally Posted By: Qoheleth
Ok. I am currently doing coaching with Steve. His opinion so far is that it's just too soon to have any useful data. For example, the first week post-exposure (when I found the note), my F?WW has said many things that I have had to choose to ignore, or that don't make sense.


What does this mean? Do you feel that there are inconsistencies to her story? If so, you need a polygraph and not choose to ignore it. You can not rebuild on a web of lies.

Originally Posted By: quoheleth
Since 9/25, my F?WW seems to have made a decision to make the end goal of this having a good relationship with me vs. getting something that she wants (either money, or fear of me trying to destroy her life post-divorce).
Is she saying you are her only option right now?
Originally Posted By: Q
A big part of me desires to let someone else create the conditions that will make me fall in love with them next year. If my F?WW wants to do it, great.
Be very very careful. You need to watch YOUR boundaries. Especially now. Do not let someone else meet your EN's or you will find yourself wayward.

Originally Posted By: Q
I am feeling my Love Bank balance dropping by the day. I have enough to make it a few more months, but I sure can't go on like this forever.

I am seeing the wisdom of Plan A followed by Plan B.


Glad to hear that you are still plugging away at being the best husband you can be. That will hopefully break through her fogginess

~RQ

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I hope she thinks that he is her only option, that's a great position for him to be in so long as he follows the MB plan.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
I hope she thinks that he is her only option, that's a great position for him to be in so long as he follows the MB plan.


I agree, but only for the short term. I wouldn't want to see Q settling for a love-less marriage. It's not marriage at all costs.

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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
What does this mean? Do you feel that there are inconsistencies to her story? If so, you need a polygraph and not choose to ignore it. You can not rebuild on a web of lies.

Things I heard in the week after exposure: "I'm never going to talk to you about anything except logistics [of divorce]." "I do not want to share any music with you." "I'm a prisoner in my own apartment!" "If I mess up in any little thing you've asked me you and your family will use your [wealth] to ruin my life forever." And on and on. So I didn't put much stock in what was said the first week. I interpreted it as fogbabble. For example, we've had many conversations since that initial "I will never talk to you again except about logistics [of divorce]" claim.

Polygraph is coming eventually but I don't think 3.5 weeks post-exposure is the right timing. I plan to do it around when the divorce is final, which would be about 3.5 months post-exposure / 3 months post-recovery.

Quote:
Is she saying you are her only option right now?

No, she's recognised she could leave right now and figure out things on her own if she wants to.

Quote:
Be very very careful. You need to watch YOUR boundaries. Especially now. Do not let someone else meet your EN's or you will find yourself wayward.

I am being very, very careful to the point I simply don't have any friendships left with the opposite sex. I avoid talk beyond business with any of the women at work. And planning to keep it that way. If my F?WW decides to leave for good, and the divorce is final, I dunno, eventually some day I'll find love again.

Quote:
Glad to hear that you are still plugging away at being the best husband you can be. That will hopefully break through her fogginess

I hope so too. I was moving her email from our old business account to an account that would belong just to her post-divorce and read a lot of sent messages sent back in 2006//2007. I can't believe how demanding I was back then and how accommodating she was.


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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
I hope she thinks that he is her only option, that's a great position for him to be in so long as he follows the MB plan.


I agree, but only for the short term. I wouldn't want to see Q settling for a love-less marriage. It's not marriage at all costs.


I believe it takes, what, 3 - 6 months for feelings of romantic love to be restored in a loveless partner?

I can do what I'm doing until the end of the year. Frankly, if nothing changes, I think my Love Bank will be close to being depleted by the end of the year.

She says that she has to try extremely hard to choose to be around me or talk to me at all and that doing anything approaching affectionate touching is very difficult and emotionally draining for her. Which is fine - I understand how she feels that way right now.

Probably the hardest thing for me is when she wants to talk about what life will be like post-divorce. All I can say is that I don't know what it will be like. She regularly talks about how she would like to feel like she'll have financial security, a fully-furnished apartment, and a working car post-divorce.

I feel like that would be wonderful for her but I don't feel like I have anything to do with it.

I don't really know how to discuss this with her without entering LB territory.


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Originally Posted By: Qoheleth
She regularly talks about how she would like to feel like she'll have financial security, a fully-furnished apartment, and a working car post-divorce.

I feel like that would be wonderful for her but I don't feel like I have anything to do with it.

I don't really know how to discuss this with her without entering LB territory.


"How you live your life if divorced is up to you. I'm not going to be around for any of it."


Me (BH)
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Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

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Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
I hope she thinks that he is her only option, that's a great position for him to be in so long as he follows the MB plan.


I agree, but only for the short term. I wouldn't want to see Q settling for a love-less marriage. It's not marriage at all costs.


Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
follows the MB plan.


Statistically speaking, since he is on board as the husband, the chances of him "settling" or "being stuck" in a loveless marriage if he is FOLLOWING THE PLAN are slim to none. He will either lead the way to a romantic, interdependent marriage, or he'll get sick of her schlitz malt liquor and kick her to the curb.


This is assuming, of course, that the affair is as dead as Abe Lincoln's beard.

Last edited by HoldHerHand; 10/05/12 10:03 AM.

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: Qoheleth
Polygraph is coming eventually but I don't think 3.5 weeks post-exposure is the right timing. I plan to do it around when the divorce is final, which would be about 3.5 months post-exposure / 3 months post-recovery.


Why are you doing a poly post-D? dontknow

Your signature says your D is final 1/1/12???


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By: Qoheleth
Originally Posted By: Rocketqueen
Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
I hope she thinks that he is her only option, that's a great position for him to be in so long as he follows the MB plan.


I agree, but only for the short term. I wouldn't want to see Q settling for a love-less marriage. It's not marriage at all costs.


I believe it takes, what, 3 - 6 months for feelings of romantic love to be restored in a loveless partner?

I can do what I'm doing until the end of the year. Frankly, if nothing changes, I think my Love Bank will be close to being depleted by the end of the year.

She says that she has to try extremely hard to choose to be around me or talk to me at all and that doing anything approaching affectionate touching is very difficult and emotionally draining for her. Which is fine - I understand how she feels that way right now.

Probably the hardest thing for me is when she wants to talk about what life will be like post-divorce. All I can say is that I don't know what it will be like. She regularly talks about how she would like to feel like she'll have financial security, a fully-furnished apartment, and a working car post-divorce.

I feel like that would be wonderful for her but I don't feel like I have anything to do with it.

I don't really know how to discuss this with her without entering LB territory.





3-6 months may be the time required for her to withdraw from her AP.

I cannot, offhand, recall seeing any dead-set timeframe for the restoration of romantic love, but I can tell you that until it is felt, you need to be working on getting 20+ hours of UA time in.


More UA time = bigger deposits = a larger LB$ account.


Reverse constructed from the more simple and understandable MB terminology - the more positively associated memories you can create with her, the faster she will associate you with good feelings and associate you with feelings of love.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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A post D polygraph makes no sense. Why would she even agree to it?


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Originally Posted By: Northwood8900
"How you live your life if divorced is up to you. I'm not going to be around for any of it."

'tis what I've said, although I don't care to keep repeating myself to her. She just seems to want some world where post-divorce we're "friends" and I'm still interested in doing nice things for her. I've made it clear there are 7 billion people in the world who need my charity and I will treat her equally along with the rest of them, post-divorce, unless we are in some kind of mutual romantic relationship.

Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
Statistically speaking, since he is on board as the husband, the chances of him "settling" or "being stuck" in a loveless marriage if he is FOLLOWING THE PLAN are slim to none. He will either lead the way to a romantic, interdependent marriage, or he'll get sick of her schlitz malt liquor and kick her to the curb.

I'm following the plan to the letter. I'm also seeing the complete brilliance in Dr Harley's books and plans. For example: after living Plan A for 3 - 6 months, you $LB will be depleted. It's a lot easier for husbands to enter Plan B at that point.

Quote:
This is assuming, of course, that the affair is as dead as Abe Lincoln's beard.

Unless my F?WW works for the CIA, it's dead.

In fact, Mr OM seems to be long gone - disappeared from social media and from the local open mic circuit. I don't know anything for a fact, but I suspect he either had a history of doing this with other people's women, he's having a difficult time at his job/internship, or mommy made some new "house rules" for her 30 year old son.

Originally Posted By: black_raven
Your signature says your D is final 1/1/12???

My signature was mistaken. It's final 1/1/13.

Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
3-6 months may be the time required for her to withdraw from her AP.

Which coincides nicely for the amount of time I plan to spend in Plan A.

Quote:
I cannot, offhand, recall seeing any dead-set timeframe for the restoration of romantic love, but I can tell you that until it is felt, you need to be working on getting 20+ hours of UA time in.

We're pushing 30 hours of UA time per week. She says she's exhausted with how much time we spend together, just because "being around you is so hard for me".

Quote:
Reverse constructed from the more simple and understandable MB terminology - the more positively associated memories you can create with her, the faster she will associate you with good feelings and associate you with feelings of love.

Good things happening there--discovered new museums we like, new neighbourhoods in nearby cities, lovely autumn trips to pumpkin farms with nephews, and so on.


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Originally Posted By: Qoheleth
Quote:
I cannot, offhand, recall seeing any dead-set timeframe for the restoration of romantic love, but I can tell you that until it is felt, you need to be working on getting 20+ hours of UA time in.

We're pushing 30 hours of UA time per week. She says she's exhausted with how much time we spend together, just because "being around you is so hard for me".


No harm in asking her how you can make it easier to be around you, eh? wink


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
Originally Posted By: Qoheleth

We're pushing 30 hours of UA time per week. She says she's exhausted with how much time we spend together, just because "being around you is so hard for me".


No harm in asking her how you can make it easier to be around you, eh? wink

I have asked that, but it's fairly clear I'm already doing everything she thinks would help.

As far as I can tell, from this point out, it's just gonna take time.


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A few nights ago, F?WW expressed some affection via touching, which is a first ever.

F?WW seems quite conflicted as of late.

PMS is absolutely awful - emotions are heightened and F?WW feels like the best solution is for us to be separated. Of course, the door is always open, but I'm useless when it comes to improving her emotional state when she has that feeling that life would be better if I weren't around.

I hope my situation is on the 3 month side of the 3 - 6 month estimate.


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If PMS is causing her emotional problems, she needs to see a doctor not make your life worse because of it.


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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Checking in for an update.

The problem I'm facing is that my F?WW is a compulsive liar. Now, she's gotten pretty good about telling the truth to me--although she still fibs, and it's about stuff she doesn't even need to.

For example: I asked her about a job she was interested in and encouraged her to apply. She applied a week later, yet told me she was doing something else. The reason was "I was worried you'd be mad if I applied for this job."

I have strong EPs and am confident there's no A going on. I did end up talking to her about her pattern of lying and she's been doing much better.

The problem is that she lies to EVERYONE ELSE! She fibs about small stuff and makes up big stuff. Her resume has misleading information about it about things like the years of employment, the type of position, etc. She referred to herself in a Craigslist ad as a "professional photographer", which is a bit of a stretch.

I fully understand I can't change her or fix her character or behavioural problems. And she's not lying to me, at the moment--in fact she's been doing great in the honesty department.

Thoughts?


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Originally Posted By: Qoheleth
Checking in for an update.

The problem I'm facing is that my F?WW is a compulsive liar. Now, she's gotten pretty good about telling the truth to me--although she still fibs, and it's about stuff she doesn't even need to.

For example: I asked her about a job she was interested in and encouraged her to apply. She applied a week later, yet told me she was doing something else. The reason was "I was worried you'd be mad if I applied for this job."

I have strong EPs and am confident there's no A going on. I did end up talking to her about her pattern of lying and she's been doing much better.

The problem is that she lies to EVERYONE ELSE! She fibs about small stuff and makes up big stuff. Her resume has misleading information about it about things like the years of employment, the type of position, etc. She referred to herself in a Craigslist ad as a "professional photographer", which is a bit of a stretch.

I fully understand I can't change her or fix her character or behavioural problems. And she's not lying to me, at the moment--in fact she's been doing great in the honesty department.

Thoughts?

Have you read about the different kind of liars?
Honesty and Openness Part #2


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: Qoheleth
Checking in for an update.

The problem I'm facing is that my F?WW is a compulsive liar. Now, she's gotten pretty good about telling the truth to me--although she still fibs, and it's about stuff she doesn't even need to.

For example: I asked her about a job she was interested in and encouraged her to apply. She applied a week later, yet told me she was doing something else. The reason was "I was worried you'd be mad if I applied for this job."

I have strong EPs and am confident there's no A going on. I did end up talking to her about her pattern of lying and she's been doing much better.

The problem is that she lies to EVERYONE ELSE! She fibs about small stuff and makes up big stuff. Her resume has misleading information about it about things like the years of employment, the type of position, etc. She referred to herself in a Craigslist ad as a "professional photographer", which is a bit of a stretch.

I fully understand I can't change her or fix her character or behavioural problems. And she's not lying to me, at the moment--in fact she's been doing great in the honesty department.

Thoughts?


She should see a psychologist for that. It's probably a personality disorder of some kind. Most adult children of alcoholics are also regular liars.

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