what caused the change of heart?
not trying to throw any wrenches out there, but I do know how waywards can sometimes suddenly seem very agreeable just so that their spouses calm down right as the relationship with the lover simply goes deeper underground. ]
I'm sure you have very strong reasons to believe that it was simply EA. but just definitely double check and triple check and do make sure you find out EVERYTHING so there are never any nasty surprises later.

By letting her go, he and I both mean he needs to have her out of his head. So that there are no what ifs, regrets, anything. We both know we can't proceed if he can't fully let her go. He needs to grieve her as the loss of a friend and also brief "girlfriend" or "mistress". I just think its so hard to hang on and wait while he "grieves"

When we were discussing all this, it was in front of our kids. After we put them to bed, we sat down and talked. He said he doesn't want to intrude out of the blue into their relationship but if it's what I need then he will do it. He just asked me not to keep giving him ultimatums and making demands. He said he will do what he can to make this work. Honestly, I don't think it's gone underground. He was a completely different person while tangled up in this affair. He was completely miserable and not fun to be around- he said the guilt ate at him daily. I know its trite and this may come back to bite me in the [censored] but he really is a good person. I don't think he could handle two women at once. He basically mentally checked out of our family while having the EA. He was physically here but mentally incredibly distant. It's only the past 2 weeks that he's started being like the old husband I knew- much more present and here with the children. Plus I have given him FULL blessings to pursue the affair with OW if he chooses. I told him I don't want him to regret being with me in the end and I'd wait if he wanted to see what they could have. He said that's not an option at all as he chose me. Obviously I'm skeptical and doubtful. And these posts haven't helped either! I asked him if he'd take a polygraph tonight and he said whatever I needed him to do.

Knowing without confirming. The only thing you know for certain is that you do not know if the OWH knows the truth. Time to draw the line in the sand on this matter.

And you believe this?
You want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

This sounds as a OW that will say anything so her BH won't be told by you that his WW has been banging your WH.

Also she wants to be able to take this affair underground and continue once the heat goes down. Same for your WH refuseal to give access to his affair email account and send a proper NC letter.

Just more lies. How do you believe this?

If your WH was willing to do the work needed for you to heal he would try to recover this "lost" email acount.

Reminder have you spoken directly to the OWH and exposed the affair? Get 'er done!

Toomuch,


In 2008, I could have written your paragraph above. Your husband is now worried that he will lose you and the family.
You are really new at this. So, let me comment on a few things that I have learned from MB.

1. Most men are entirely capable of being in love with two women at the same time. At this point, your husband wants to do whatever he can to keep both you and the OW.

2. This A has gone physical. Your H admits to kissing her. Most waywards will lie to minimize the extent of the affair. Since he agreed to a polygraph, follow through with it and determine exactly how far this thing went.

3. Verify your H's no contact with keylogger on the computer and software on his phone. DO NOT tell him you are doing this.

4. Talk, in person, to OWH. Waywards are notorious liars. Verify that the husband knows about this and the extent of it. It also serves the purpose of having two sets of eyes on what your H and OW are doing. OWH can watch his wife's actions as well as you watching what your H is doing.

5. Dr. Harley counsels against selfish demands, with the EXCEPTION of affairs and physical abuse. It is entirely reasonable for you to demand that your husband have no contact with OW and to end the affair the RIGHT WAY, with the MB sample no contact letter. Otherwise, your H and OW will be fondly remembering their last conversation of love yous and will think about you forever. I have been in this position and wish that you will not make the same mistakes that I did.

6. Dr. Harley has three key elements to recovery from an affair. They are 1) End the affair and have no contact with the affair partner for life. 2) Be completely transparent in the past, present and future. This includes access to all email, cell phone, daily activities, etc. 3) Build a romantic relationship in the marriage by meeting each other's emotional needs and avoiding lovebusters. It is all possible using MB plans.

AM

I agree. It's exactly what happened in my sitch. Please listen to MelodyLane and the others. They KNOW what they are talking about.

Sorry it's been an emotional few days. I basically told him to tell me if there is anything else because if he's hinging my future well being on OW or OWH keeping a secret then he better come clean now. Before I heal myself, rebuild myself only to find something else happened in 5, 10, 20 years. I told him I don't have it in me to rebuild myself again. The questions I asked him were:

1. Did you guys have sex
2. Have you had any further contact
3. Do you have any other secret email/phone

He admitted in marriage counseling today that they had sex. He was gone for 3 days before I found out and that is when it happened. He flew out to see her, have sex, then flew back. I contacted OWH and confirmed he knew of both EA and PA. He did. He actually just found out 2 days ago. He said they've had no contact because he has been with OW except for 2 hours the past few weeks. Husband swears this is all there is to it.

My husband said he didn't tell me because he didn't think it was the right time to add more information on top of everything. I told him BS I just made him realize last night that its not a secret he can't guarantee won't come out so he got scared.

Anyway so where do I go? I want to kick him out for a while, while I figure things out. It's not even so much as the pain of knowing it was a PA also but the fact that he withheld it from me, waited til I built myself back up a bit, started trusting a bit and for this to come out. He's basically been lying the entire time we have been "rebuilding". He said he's scared to lose me blah blah blah. I'm just done at this point. I don't see how I can forget this. He thinks we should proceed with our original plan of talking about everything one more time on Friday night then not bringing it up again. Is it crazy I just need to separate a bit first to figure out what I want?

Also wanted to say that him going back to OW is NOT an option. She lives states away, has reconciled with her husband. So the only damaging thing a separation may do is make one or both of us we don't love or need each other. Which wouldn't be a bad thing to figure out now instead of 14 more years later right?

I see no reason to proceed with the polygraph. Honestly what more can he tell me that can hurt?

He is already willing to do the no contact letter. I'm going to make it him do it regardless of If I make him leave or not.

As for the exposure of the extent of the affair...I have chosen only to tell my very trusted friends and family and his sister. If we do make this work, I don't want to be judged as the stupid wife.

I just feel like the one thing that attracted me the most to him- his honesty and integrity- is gone. Why stay? I don't even know who this man is. He said he was obsessed with her and made poor decisions. That he was in a fog and completely irrational. He doesn't want me to make him leave. But I feel kicking him out will give me some much needed alone time.

This isn't the MB plan, its plan sd.

Failing to expose through embarassment won't work. There is no recovery without exposure.

He's clearly still witholding truth and without RH there is no recovery. If he thinks you will accept lies to avoid hurt - that's what you'll get forever. While wondering about the truth.

So if you want recovery, you have to put ALL the ingredients in, not just the easy ones.

Then insist on future honesty and integrity.

Facing up to exposure is the FIRST STEP in becoming an accountable FORMER wayward.

Proving truth with a willingness to sit a poly is another act of honesty.

He has to DO stuff. There is no magic wand.

Answer that question for yourself. Are you comfortable with the knowledge that you have right now? I, personally, believe you will get more information with a poly. I think he's still holding back on info to 'protect you' aka 'to protect himself'. Your call, sister. You're driving the bus.

So sorry to hear about the new developments, sd.
I feel your pain and relate so much to what I know you are going through right now. Seriously, I wish people would all stumble across this site or Dr Harley's books or something before they ever have an affair to see beforehand the terrible damage it causes.
People get married and promise themselves to each other for life and later can't live by those words and still behave as a separate entity, instead of being ONE with the person they married.
It just sucks.
And especially for those of us who did not even see it coming - I completely understand what its like to look at someone you love in a new light, like there is a side to them you simply had no clue about - it threatens your very sense of security.

I do have some advice about exposure, because I didn't do it. I really should have. At the time, I was fearing the same things you are, but in hindsight more and more I wish I had exposed what my WH did to me far and wide. Its a small price to pay for what he did and as others have said, also gives you support. You are not the stupid wife. He is the stupid wayward to have ever done this.

I have tremendous support. The emotional affair and "kiss" was exposed to everyone. I'm reading SAA and I haven't gotten to the section that talks about full exposure. I have exposed the sex to my best friend and his sister.

I also told him last night he needs to take a polygraph. He was fine with it until I told him one question will be if he has talked to her. He confessed she skyped him Monday briefly to tell him her husband found out about the sex.

He claims the fog is completed lifted now and he will do whatever it takes. He will wait if I decide we need to separate. I feel so confused. I'm terrified of not having him in my life but also terrified he will hurt me again. He claims he has to stop lying because he can't stand the hurt. That he hasn't been putting 100% effort into rebuilding this marriage because he was scared to tell me about the sex. But he's ready now. I don't know. He says he will do whatever I ask.

I would believe that WHEN the actions are completed.

You should put a keylogger on PC and get other snooping tools to confirm NC

"He confessed she skyped him Monday briefly to tell him her husband found out about the sex... He claims the fog is completed lifted now and he will do whatever it takes."

Your husband had contact with OW two days ago. There is no way the fog has lifted and there was probably much more to the conversation Monday, how much do you and OWH know, how to stay in contact, how much they feel for each other. He is still in the affair and will probably either respond to contact to initiate contact in a few days. That is the nature of an affair addiction. To bust up the affair, follow the MB advice:

1. Expose the full extent of the affair to friends and family. It would be a good idea to have an agreement with OWH that both of you will inform the other of any known contact.

2. Change the conditions that made the affair possible. In this case, there should be total transparency in phone and internet use. Install a keylogger on the computer and do not tell your husband you are doing this. There should be no further nights away from home.

3. What your husband has been telling you is termed "trickle truth", just enough information to get you off his case. There is probably more to learn and it would be good to come up with several questions, present them to your husband before the polygraph and then take the three most important questions from the list for the polygraph.

AM