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Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
How do you implement the POJA when we can't even talk. Mere talking is a LB to him at this stage.

POJA is for down the road, not for today. Today you are going to use the carrot of Plan A and the stick of Plan D.

In Plan A you are going to be everything that attracted him to you in the first place - you are going to have fun and invite him to have fun with you. You are not going to ask for any emotional support as this is clearly an LB for him (it is for most men).

Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
I think my only hope is to get him to talk to the Harleys. There has been no response regarding the radio show question I submitted last week; how long should I wait in your opinion?

I think this is a great idea, hopefully someone will come by and give you a response. I have no experience of the radio show.


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What is plan D?

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Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
What is plan D?

Divorce


FWW/BW (me)
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
How do you implement the POJA when we can't even talk. Mere talking is a LB to him at this stage.

I think my only hope is to get him to talk to the Harleys. There has been no response regarding the radio show question I submitted last week; how long should I wait in your opinion?

SD

The Harleys usually respond within a week. Send another email and also notify the MODS and they will also let the Harleys know.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hi all, thought i'd give you an update.

Went on and maxed out the only CC i had and got my H to talk to Steve Harley. He then (Steve) spoke to me and told me my H had agreed to look at the material. It took 2 weeks for my H to mention anything about the session.

He hasn't to date done a single thing. I've been trying to keep LB to a minimum while trying to meet his needs, but that's a hard feat to pull given that he just gets more belligerent and demanding. He has mentioned he does not intend to work on any of the material until he's away on his trip. I find this unacceptable and a firm and clear message that he does not have this marriage very high up on his priority list.

I'm just done. I'm telling him to go today. Thanks for all your suggestions and advice. It would have been simple (not easy) to solve our troubles if he was willing, but he's clearly got his sight on something totally different from having a fulfilled relationship with me.

SD

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SnD - I'm sad to hear this news, sad for both of you. I think you're right - understanding what needs to be done is simple. Getting both people to do their parts is not.

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Ok, so I told him. This is not what I want, and he knows it. He's asking if he can still see me. Hasn't left. Insists he doesn't see how we can turn things around as he feels he's exhausted all his emotional resources and if he keeps going he's going to end up in therapy (which might not be such a bad thing... him doing some therapy, i mean).

Meantime, I'm deeply in love with this person and have huge abandonment issues to boot. I know I need to let him go... in fact, I need to get him to go, but how!?

Furthermore, this house is full of reminders of the life we'll never have together. It hurts just sleeping on this bed, looking at the walls we were going to paint, watching the dog long for him to arrive every time someone comes through the building door (she can hear it). This all just breaks my heart... How do I get through this?

SD

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Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
Ok, so I told him. This is not what I want, and he knows it. He's asking if he can still see me. Hasn't left.


Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
I know I need to let him go... in fact, I need to get him to go, but how!?


Neither of you was honest with the other about your expectations from this marriage. You married because you loved him but said you were marrying as a friend to help him out. He married you because he needed permanent residence.

To repair the damage that this lack of honesty has caused, you both have to go back and start again or abandon this marriage, learn from your experience and do better next time.


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Originally Posted By: living_well
[quote=SadnDepressed]
To repair the damage that this lack of honesty has caused, you both have to go back and start again ...



How do you start again? Is it possible to start again?

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Originally Posted By: living_well

To repair the damage that this lack of honesty has caused, you both have to go back and start again ...


Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
How do you start again? Is it possible to start again?


It is always possible to start again but you both need to want to. Start by owning your own lack of honesty. Tell him that you now know that you were wrong and that you deceived him. See where that goes. Admit to your own faults and let him admit his if he wishes to. If he walks away, let him go.


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I can admit to my own faults, but just to make it clear... I NEVER deceived him about our marriage. He knew all along I had deep feelings for him. He chose to go through with the marriage as a real marriage... but I'm thinking maybe he wasn't on the same page as me.

Right now I don't think it would be a good idea to try to contact him. I told him I was still willing to work on the marriage. I told him also ending everything is not what I wanted, and that I was doing it because he didn't have courage to do it himself. That is my biggest regret right now. I feel like I could kick myself for being so stupid! I did this to myself, and now there's no going back.

He tells me he still loves me, but has lost faith in us ever working out. I can only hope he will come back after catching his breath. In the meantime there isn't much i can do... i can only better myself.. get out of this depression and put myself back together.

SD

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Yes you are only able to better yourself.

Suppose you have two very close friends with whom you share lots of history and common interests. One is full of fun, interested in what you are up to and makes you feel great, the other is always moaning and groaning and talking about herself and how she needs your sympathy. You might love both of them but which will you spend your time with?

Think yourself into being like the first of these people and you will be rewarded with a thousand blessings. Maybe from an unexpected place.


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Did you hear back from the Harleys?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Yes, I did. Spoke with Steve Harley and my H had agreed to look over the material and the videos in the site... but then he never did.

I also heard from Joyce and spoke with them on the radio on monday. Dr Harley recommends me to choose a better partner next time. My heart is still on this marriage, I do not want to give up, but I guess people here are no longer willing to help.

Everybody hears the part where I married him to help him initially and the rest of the story becomes a moot point to their ears. There's so much more to us than that....

SD

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Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
Yes, I did. Spoke with Steve Harley and my H had agreed to look over the material and the videos in the site... but then he never did.

I also heard from Joyce and spoke with them on the radio on monday. Dr Harley recommends me to choose a better partner next time. My heart is still on this marriage, I do not want to give up, but I guess people here are no longer willing to help.

Everybody hears the part where I married him to help him initially and the rest of the story becomes a moot point to their ears. There's so much more to us than that....

SD

Radio clip on SadandDepressed's call
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I really regret what I did after the show. I really regret telling him to go.

He does love me, i know that. I can feel it. There is no affair, there is no ulterior motive. He even told me he was thinking of maybe just staying in his country.

We still talk. I try to be good and sound happy on the phone. People who know us tell me to give it some time... he's got so much in his head he can't see things clearly right now. I'd like to believe them. I don't know what to do. All I know is that I want US back...

SD

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Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
I really regret what I did after the show. I really regret telling him to go.

He does love me, i know that. I can feel it. There is no affair, there is no ulterior motive. He even told me he was thinking of maybe just staying in his country.

We still talk. I try to be good and sound happy on the phone. People who know us tell me to give it some time... he's got so much in his head he can't see things clearly right now. I'd like to believe them. I don't know what to do. All I know is that I want US back...

SD

Then why doesn't he show by his actions of doing his MB homework?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I think he's overwhelmed. I think I complained so much and nothing was ever good enough for me and ending up making it so that there was very little for him in the relationship. I know this happened because of his independence... he would try to work on the relationship but it was always one sided... and he wouldn't tell me he was doing this or that for us. All I got was that he wasn't trying the "right" way (because he kept missing the mark in his attempts to meet my needs), and would complain.

He's not comfortable speaking about feelings and it is very hard for him to allow himself to feel vulnerable.

Right now I think he's got nothing working right in his life here. His relationship is gone, his job is crap, his project is an abstract, he's not financially stable... His family is going through a really rough time and he's thinking maybe he can do more there than here.

He still seeks me. He has called 3 times. He came over last night to feed our dog (who is more upset than I am, i think, about his absence...she wouldn't eat for me). The fact that he still wants to have contact gives me some hope that maybe there's still a chance we could work.

SD

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Originally Posted By: SadnDepressed
I think he's overwhelmed. I think I complained so much and nothing was ever good enough for me and ending up making it so that there was very little for him in the relationship. I know this happened because of his independence... he would try to work on the relationship but it was always one sided... and he wouldn't tell me he was doing this or that for us. All I got was that he wasn't trying the "right" way (because he kept missing the mark in his attempts to meet my needs), and would complain.

He's not comfortable speaking about feelings and it is very hard for him to allow himself to feel vulnerable.

Right now I think he's got nothing working right in his life here. His relationship is gone, his job is crap, his project is an abstract, he's not financially stable... His family is going through a really rough time and he's thinking maybe he can do more there than here.

He still seeks me. He has called 3 times. He came over last night to feed our dog (who is more upset than I am, i think, about his absence...she wouldn't eat for me). The fact that he still wants to have contact gives me some hope that maybe there's still a chance we could work.

SD

Will he talk with Steve?

Does he tell you he loves you?

What were you complaining about? Why wouldn't he change what you were complaining about?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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He spoke with Steve 2 weeks ago. There are no more funds to continue to talk to Steve. The other thing about continuing to talk is that he hasn't familiarized himself with the concepts of MB yet, so I don't know how effective the sessions would be until he reads up on them or watches some of the videos.

After the talk with Steve he was willing to read up some, and watch the videos. Then he didn't say anything about the session or anything else regarding working on the marriage. He was full throttle trying to come up with money to leave things paid here while he's out of the country. After some time, the topic of the session came up and he mentioned he was going to look over the stuff while he was in his country. Right now I'm unsure as to if he's still willing to do that. I'm leaning towards "no" because of how overwhelmed he is.

He has never been the kind of guy to express his feelings verbally and spontaneously. I asked him if he still loves me and he says yes, although he admits his feelings towards me have decreased. But he insists he still does love me.

I was complaining about our lack of intimacy... given his trouble being expressive verbally like that, he has a lot of trouble meeting this need of mine. He's also not comfortable allowing himself to feel emotionally vulnerable, so that creates another barrier in meeting my need for intimate conversation and just feeling connected. He has a hard time with trust... this is from his upbringing. He has attempted to change this. He would text me sweet things and that he loved me... my mistake was not being happy with the little steps and always pushing for more.

The other main complaint of mine, which i didn't understand how to explain it to him until i read the MB concepts was his independent behavior. He feels he would stop being himself if he was to "comform" to someone else. He becomes defensive and communication becomes totally unsuccessful at that point. I would also get defensive and those were most of our arguments.

As to why he wouldn't change his Independent behavior? My conclusion is his trust issue. He believes he's going to lose himself if he molds his behavior to better the relationship. He rebels against it and tends to do the exact opposite. If he could just learn to cool himself when he's feeling defensive, or to let down his guard a little we could accomplish great things.

Thank you BH for continuing to try to help. I really appreciate it as I do not know where else to turn.

SD

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