Wow MrA that's a toughie. I understand what you're saying totally but given that the main LB you've overcome is educating her, I'd leave out the "In our case I started thinking ... " and "Partying." paragraphs. Just rate partying appropriately low on the inventory if it's on there.

I suppose I could have left out the "In our case I started thinking" paragraph but I did think it relevant to our situation. I think I should have said that it was related to RC activities as it isn't obvious that's what I meant. I may have made it sound like there was nothing else.

When we discuss it I'll be sure to point out my error.

I shouldn't have said Partying. I should have said drinking. This isn't the first time I've tried to broach the subject with her. And while I'm reading this I realize my intent was to raise my concern about the amount of alcohol she drinks. I did it off-handedly and wasn't direct. Instead of just flat out saying I don't like how much she consumes and POJA it I explained the choices I've made.

This one is a tough subject for me. I'm not sure if this in an LB for me or if I'm just trying to impose my will or genuinely am concerned it's getting out of hand.

And because I'm unsure I dance around it. Sigh and yuck.

I don't think this is an issue you should either raise indirectly or POJA. It is a valid complaint. I would come right out and tell her that her drinking makes you uncomfortable. Stop right there and see how she responds. She may share your concerns and ask for help in finding a way to drink less.

Approaching it indirectly is not going to do anything useful and will distract from the positive message.

I really like your letter and I think its a great way to get her thinking about making each other your favorite recreational companion. One thing I would suggest is asking her out for date nights to go out for dinner. Try to plan them at a nice restaurant an hour away. That gives you an hour to chat on the way there and an hour on the way back. One thing DH and I do that makes it more romantic is to share an entree [which is cheaper and avoids having a bunch of leftover food] and sit next to each other in the booth. It makes it a very intimate evening.

And I agree very much with livingwell that her drinking should be handled as a complaint and addressed directly. If her level of consumption bothers you, that needs to be expressed openly and honestly.

Is she an alcoholic? A heavy drinker?

A month or so before we started to see Dr. Chalmers I did send her an email explaining my withdrawal. In that email I expressed quite a few complaints. Maybe too much at once. In that email I told her flat out how her drinking affected me. She responded by cutting way back, not drinking during the week and paced her drinking to mine when we'd go out with friends. She didn�t seem too pleased at the time. Now mind you we were in a bad place at that time and so her attitude wasn't one of happiness. I'm unsure if it was due to the state of our marriage or that I complained or that she had to cut back cuz she knew I wanted her to or a combo of all those things.

This is where her and I need to keep working on our R. These are the kind of intense discussions that we usually (used to) avoid.

In my opinion she�s suspect to addictions. I�ve talked about this before. She had a horrible time quitting smoking. She complains about her weight and yet fights me tooth and nail when I suggest anything low carb, low sugar, etc. She eats a lot of sugars and carbs. Her eating habits is one of the things we discussed with Dr. J regarding my need for an attractive spouse. She�s still eating a lot of those things and I still find them less than attractive.

I want to believe she could quit the drinking if she chose to. It appears to be a recreational thing for her. I don�t know if she is an alcoholic.

I do know her father was never clinically diagnosed as an alcoholic that I know of but he�d drink every day. He�d head down to the local pub for breakfast and a [sarcasm]cup of coffee. Yeah right.[/sarcasm] He had emphysema and smoked until he died of respiratory failure. So you can about imagine what plays on in my head. Like father like daughter. Once a year she�d join him for �breakfast�.

Is she a heavy drinker? I think so. On an average day like now � if time allows she�ll drink about 30 or more ounces of beer or have a couple 3 glasses of wine (say half a bottle). When we go to a party or have a party � she�ll have about 6 or 7 beers at a minimum.

I fear this is going to escalate. Being the conflict avoider I�m unsure how to broach the subject. Especially now that she knows how I feel about it. We�re doing so well. Yet she�s swinging back into her drinking. Within the last year or two it�s grown to this.

Can you tell me � should I be extremely concerned? Is the amount she drink relevant? I have no experience diagnosing alcoholism.

The one thing I think that gauges my concern is a scenario. Let�s say we had a bit of a tiff and things got a little heated or one of the kids drove her to anger. She�d reach for a beer. I�ve seen it happen before and I think that's a warning sign.

New, living_well and Mel.

Thanks for your responses BTW.

She sounds to me like she is an alcoholic or a heavy drinker. Your wife drinks to escape life and that is what alcoholics do. Another thing we do is to make sure no one really knows how much we drink. She might be drinking alot more than you think.

And we are not clinically diagnosed as alcoholics, we can figure it out on our own if we are honest. Alcoholism is an addiction to alcohol and it sounds like she is addicted.

I would definitely bring it up to her and tell her you are very worried about her drinking. Ask her to quit drinking and see how she responds.

Does she get drunk? Does she go drunk driving?

Some more thoughts of mine... She does not have an alcoholic personality from the sounds of it. For example, she is not extremely independent, destructive or thoughtless. Most alcoholics absolutely will not follow the POJA. That is not the case with her.

But I would look around to see if you can find any signs of hiding drinks. If you brought this up in the past, she might be trying to demonstrate normal drinking, which means she would let you see her drink 2 to 3 drinks and but would hide the other 5-10 drinks. And alcoholics don't necessarily get drunk. They can drink massive amounts of alcohol just to feel normal.

Thanks Mel. If I ask her to quit I assume I would need to do the same. I mean if it's a problem for her then I have no issues giving up recreational drinking. Heck half the reason I drink as little as I do is because of how much she does. I'm trying to be a good role model and set the tone of what I believe is controlled.

I can assure you she will be upset if I ask her to quit drinking, just as she would if I asked her to stop eating so much garbage. She doesn�t like to be �told� what she should do. I wish she was more open to feedback. It is one of the things that bothers me. She listens and reciprocates but always with a hint of something negative (depression, resentment, something ). I don�t know what she�s feeling because she doesn�t answer when I ask if there is something wrong. I always feel she�s saying �Oh I hear you and I�ll do as you ask but I am not going to be happy doing it.�. This is one of the dynamics I�m hoping we continue to work on. We�re being more open. I need to hear her perspectives.

After about 4 beers yeah I can tell she�s drunk. She starts to loosen up some. She�s a happy drunk.

She doesn�t drink outside the home unless she�s with me and I always drive in those cases. So no she doesn�t drink and drive.

She does not hide her drinking. I can attest to the amount she drinks with certainty.

On the flip side I think if it meant enough to me she�d quite drinking.

Tomorrow we�re going to my buddy�s house for a party. It�s over an hour away through the metropolitan area. I told her I would drive (she hates metro driving especially in the dark). She said it�s XXX�s party. You should have fun with your buddy and have a few drinks so I�d like to drive but you know I hate driving under those conditions. I volunteered to be the DD as I drive into the metro every day. Point being she did offer to stay sober and drive and does this quite regularly when she knows I�d like to have more than just a beer.

Thanks Melody. These things are very reassuring coming from someone who has experience in this area. I appreciate your candor.

Would you be ok with it if she just cut back considerably? This comment above tells me she is probably not an alcoholic; that along with your certainty that she is not hiding drinks. An alcoholic wouldn't just have 2 or 3 drinks, for example. That would be stupid. Better to have none than not enough! UNLESS she is trying to demonstrate normal drinking to get you off her back.

If you are not bothered by light drinking, I would just tell her that it bothers you when she drinks alot and ask her to cut back. The important thing is that you are honest about your feelings.

Thanks Melody. I will approach her again with this and reiterate my concern for the volume and frequency that she drinks. I suspect it will come up when we discuss the email I sent out earlier today.

And honestly, if she can't control it, then she does have a serious problem. She is a problem drinker NOW just for the sheer fact that it bothers YOU.

If your wife told you that it bothered her when you ate popcorn, wouldn't you just stop eating popcorn? I know I would... So she should have no issue with just cutting back dramatically. Unless........she is addicted.

True.

Melody.

I want to thank you for taking the time to answer and help with this today. I know are very busy on this forum so I appreciate your time.

Signing off for now.

Have a great day and thanks again.

Have a great weekend, MrA!

I apologize for the length of this.

MB folks I'd like some feedback on my communication to Mrs. Alias. I am trying to communicate in a positive manner to my wife but doing so I find it difficult speaking the truth about what I see. When I speak the truth it comes off sounding like I am trying educate her (an LB of mine) which I probably am but as you'll see some of these things are quite obvious (DJ alert?) and I just don't know how to use positive statements only to get my message to her.

The first is her lack of open and honest communication. Each week or every other week I've been trying to work parts of MB. I sent her an email some time ago to discuss our UA/RC time. Nothing. I mentioned the email to her twice and she doesn't respond. She said she read it ... and that's it. This doesn't add deposits to my LB when topics are ignored. This is on top of the fact during counseling I'd do the homework and she'd skip much of it. But because my needs were getting met (one of my biggest concerns) I chose to keep going. Monday night she played with the dog while we were on the speaker phone with Dr. J. I let her know how that was distracting to me. I couldn't focus on what she was saying as there was a distraction in the room.

So for a while now I've questioned her dedication to this new life we're supposedly creating. I think she just wants me to be happy ... but what would make me happy is if she showed more dedication. Sigh ... that's for another day somewhere's down the road. For now I'm going to work my side of the program.

The first concern I have is my need for an attractive spouse. My W used to always be thin and had a lovely shape. But the last couple years metabolisms have changed and so has she. We're trying to eat healthy but she continues to do things that put the kabosh on those plans.
Here are a few of those things:
- She eats a lot of candy, keeps it in her vehicle so she can grab some whenever she wants ... bags and bags of candy pumpkins (blech)... I think there are like 8 bags in our home right now.
- She is a bit of heavy drinker and in the last couple of years she's upped the volume and frequency of consumption. She drinks light beer nearly everyday. She likes for us to have a drink together. She enjoys that.
- She's a snacker and thus our pantry is full of boxes of snack crackers, muffin mixes, bread mixes, dessert mixes, etc.

So while I see everything she does that's counter to her attempts only to hear her complain "I'm fat!" in an angry tone then turn around and say "I'm upset that this eating plan isn't working for me especially when I see it working for you" I don't know how to communicate what I see without sounding negative. When I'm frustrated with those comments I so wanna educate her on what she's doing wrong. I've made one comment and said well I don't think you and I are eating the same each day.

The next topic is her drinking. This won't be a hot button for her yet I doubt we'll discuss it (DJ). After I mention it she'll just make a change (I assume) like she did before but I fear, like before, she'll be upset about it. That isn't POJA and I walk around feeling guilty while she walks around being upset. blech.

Here is what I jotted down so far ... hack away at it please. This is very good practice for me and these are items I really would like to see some change.

I want to think about your letter for a minute, but I wanted to comment on the above in the meantime. The reason your wife is upset is because it is not easy to develop new habits. That is not a violation of the POJA. Of course she is not going to feel enthusiastic about cutting back on drinking, and that is ok. [but concerning] I DID NOT feel enthusiastic when I quit smoking 4 packs of cigarettes a day, but it was the best thing for my health. Cutting back on her drinking is good for your marriage.

I have to ask, though, why do you want her to cut back on her drinking? What bothers you about that?

While reading your post I thought that joining a gym with your wife might be the ideal solution for you both? You can get a personal trainer who will lead your workout schedule and your diets. And you can get in some GREAT UA time working out together. Dr Harley says that working out together is a great UA activity because you are together as you produce endorphins. That would help you get to your UA goal, help her lose weight and clean up her health.