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markos #2693577 12/29/12 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Call the Harleys for a one-on-one phone appointment.

Too much is at stake to piddle solutions.


Pep,

Prisca and I are having problems again. We were posting to Dr. Harley, but she won't post any more. She says I'm disrespectful. I posted to him this morning, and am waiting on a response. I'm feeling pretty miserable at the moment: there are a lot of complaints I have about our marriage that I had hoped would be addressed by now, but they haven't been addressed. Prisca says I am disrespectful.

I can't figure out how I am being disrespectful. I am hoping that she will give me another chance to reword these complaints, if I can learn to do it respectfully.

Would you mind using your influence to try to persuade Prisca to reengage with Dr. Harley? I don't know what other hope we have.

We aren't getting UA time. I tried to complain about that this morning, but Prisca said I was disrespectful.

I don't really have anyone to talk to for support when Prisca is demanding or disrespectful. I follow your (and Dr. Harley's) advice and complain to her, but she rejects my complaints.

She doesn't want to learn to negotiate. She says it is miserable. She was posting to Dr. Harley about this last week, but she won't post any more.


Whoa! I just found this post.
I was very occupied with other things for awhile and have not kept up on MB.

A couple of your comments stand out to me.

1. She doesn't want to learn to negotiate.
2. She says it is miserable.

I do not buy #1.
I completely buy #2.

I suspect there has been a ton of emotional flooding between you since your post to me Dec 19.

I await further comments. I assume Dr. Harley is involved and I support whatever efforts he is making.


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#1 rule for POJA is to keep it pleasant !

Quote from the Buyers/Renters/Freeloaders thread in MB101:

Originally Posted By: Pepperband
P O J A

The "BUYER's" agreement !!


Quote:
POJA requires this question be asked

"How do you feel about what I would like to do?"

Decisions are to be made considering each other's feelings.

POJA forces you to be considerate especially when you don't feel like it

OK .... you've asked THE question "How would you feel about ...."

and this gets negotiation started ... and you realize the goal is enthusiastic agreement ... how do you arrive at that goal?




Quote:

Guidelines for POJA

Guideline 1

Set ground rules to make negotiation pleasant and safe.

...Ground Rule 1 Try to be pleasant and cheerful throughout negotiations.

...Ground Rule 2 Put safety first. Don't make demands, show disrespect, or become angry when you negotiate, even if your partner makes demands, shows disrespect, or becomes angry with you.

...Ground Rule 3 If you reach an impasse and don't seem to be getting anywhere, or if one of you is starting to make demands, show disrespect, or become angry, stop negotiating and come back to the issue later.

~~~> In other words, do not succumb to the temptations of your Taker <~~~

Guideline 2

Identify the problem from both perspectives.

Very important point Harley makes ~~~> Most couples try to resolve a conflict without doing their homework. They don't fully understand the conflict itself, nor do they understand each other's perspectives. In many cases, they are not even sure what they really want or what they are enthusiastically willing to give.

Harley says

Respect is the key in this phase of negotiation.

It is extremely important to avoid trying to straighten each other out.

(~~~> OK .... anyone guilty of this raise your hand <~~~ *my hand is up*)

Guideline 3

Brainstorm with abandon

This is the creative part.

Look for mutually agreeable areas that will create compatability.


The goal is to please both of you.

Harley says

The secret to understanding your partner is to think like your partner's Taker thinks.

It's easy to appeal to your partner's Giver ~~~> if she really loves me, she'll let me do this. BUT, lasting peace must be forged with your partner's Taker, so your solutions must appeal to your partner's most selfish instincts. At the same time they must also appeal to your most selfish instincts.



VERY IMPORTANT POINT HERE***

Resist one type of solution that your Giver and Taker may suggest --- the I'll let you do what you want this time if you let me do what I want next time solution <~~~ That's the RENTER'S SOLUTION that encourages you to alternate sacrificing for each other.


Last edited by Pepperband; 12/29/12 12:07 PM.
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Markos, I saw you posted on a thread.

How are things going, dude? There are folks here who greatly care for you and Prisca, and want to know you are progressing. (Well, not me so much, since I'm heartless, but other folks......)

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I am another who has been waiting for an update!!

You and Prisca have helped me so much. I only wish I could do the same for you.

I have put you both in my prayers.


Me-BH-37
XWW-32
Married 8 years
2-daughters
D-Day-2--2011
Divorced 2-2012
PTH #2701666 01/24/13 03:01 PM
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Hi, guys. Thank you.

I am working without a net. No Dr. Harley, no forum.

But, I know what to do.

I've been on Lexapro about 2 1/2 weeks now. I think I like it.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2701854 01/24/13 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: markos
Hi, guys. Thank you.

I am working without a net. No Dr. Harley, no forum.

But, I know what to do.

I've been on Lexapro about 2 1/2 weeks now. I think I like it.

We're here if you need us.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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**edit**

Last edited by Fireproof; 01/26/13 06:38 PM. Reason: TOS personal attack
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Fact check. I've only "known" y'all since 2005. grin. I can't believe I've been at ***EDIT*** longer than y'all!

Last edited by Toujours; 06/16/15 05:07 PM.
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Hope you are doing well Markos

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**edit**

Last edited by Fireproof; 01/27/13 04:22 PM. Reason: TOS disrespectful - non MB advice
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Originally Posted By: MilanIsBeautiful
We can conclude that pride is the source of this anger. Combine pride, anger, and intelligence and you have a perfect storm.

There are a lot of assumptions in your post. Where do you get off coming here and insulting another poster?

Your post has so little to do with MB advice that I must ask why you are here. This isn't a forum for dispensing folk wisdom and "this is what my STBX was like, so I assume you are like it too" advice.

It is clear to anyone who has followed markos' posts, and read his questions and answers to Dr H on the private forum, that he has struggled hard against his unacceptable behaviour and has sought guidance in both the Bible and Dr Harley's work.

I think you are well out of line and need to stop this line of attack.


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My intention isn't to insult anyone, but to offer a perspective from someone who's known Markos online much longer than most here at MB. I like Markos and Prisca. I know about him from his posts, not from folk wisdom. I was careful to qualify my suggestions with plenty of ifs and perhapses. I don't know for sure what's going on, but I wanted to offer this perspective in case it's useful. I care a great deal about Markos and Prisca. I've waited eagerly to hear about the biths of their children and various other life adventures. I have respect for Markos's efforts to heal their marriage. If Prisca doesn't feel safe to negotiate, I'm trying to offer a perspective that could explain why and what to do about it.

I absolutely don't mean to insult anyone and I apologize if that's how I came across.

Last edited by MilanIsBeautiful; 01/27/13 04:19 PM.
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A reminder that the purpose of this forum is to help posters resolve their problems using Marriage Builders concepts. It is not a platform for personal philosophies. Please keep your posts productive. Thank you.

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I appreciate your apology and I apologise in turn for my reading of your post. It was a sentence (now gone) that began "we can conclude" that set me off.

I know him from his posts, too, and from what I have seen, he is effortless in his attempts to use MB and AB to have a great marriage. Sometimes their combined efforts have worked very well to make them both happy for months at a time, and then things crash. I think that the happiness that they both express when things are going well shows that markos is doing the right things. He just needs to keep on doing them and not have relapses. It is the relapses that cause the problem. When he is not relapsing there is no deep down feeling causing problems.


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Yes, but what causes the relapses?

And my conclusion is perfectly logical and I will never refer to anything in the Bible as folk wisdom and I don't think I want to be seeking advice from those who do. I was nice getting to know y'all. Moving on...

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Originally Posted By: SugarCane
This isn't a forum for dispensing folk wisdom and "this is what my STBX was like, so I assume you are like it too" advice.

It is clear to anyone who has followed markos' posts, and read his questions and answers to Dr H on the private forum, that he has struggled hard against his unacceptable behaviour and has sought guidance in both the Bible and Dr Harley's work.

I think you are well out of line and need to stop this line of attack.

The "folk wisdom" description referred to the "this is what my STBX was like, so I assume you are like it too" advice, and the "we can conclude that pride is the source of this anger" assumption, as I said in my previous post. It did not refer to Biblical advice, as you well know because I pointed out that markos is a follower of the Bible. You have resorted to distorting my point to win a cheap shot. I think you need to look at your own pride, lady.

You displayed a remarkable arrogance towards and dislike for markos in both your edited posts, which is all the more astonishing given that you went to 101 to ask him for help!


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Prisca gave me a lovely gift yesterday for our ninth anniversary: a dozen roses.

But they were manly roses.

They were made of crispy baked bacon. laugh laugh laugh


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2712352 03/13/13 04:14 PM
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And they are delicious (I just got through polishing off another one....)


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2712353 03/13/13 04:15 PM
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dance2

markos #2712384 03/13/13 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: markos
Prisca gave me a lovely gift yesterday for our ninth anniversary: a dozen roses.

But they were manly roses.

They were made of crispy baked bacon. laugh laugh laugh

Happy Anniversary!!


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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