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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand



"Nailin' broads" don't make you a man...


Amen!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
"I suggest you all consult with Dr Harley on this matter as mentioned from the caller on the radio program. I just quoted what he said and referenced my story. Look up the segment for yourself."

I heard the radio show and Dr Harley DID NOT endorse adultery. He never has. H is dead set against adultery. You are misrepresenting Dr Harleys position.

What was the segment or date?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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My typing didn't convey what I meant. I meant that this has become a distraction to the point of this thread which is FL infidelity and Plan A. All I am saying is lets focus on this posters marriage. This should be discussed in other topics. I agree that Dr. H doesn't endorse adultery. It is already known to anyone who knows of the policies and SAA. FL needs to let his WW know what he did and continue to Plan A and up his boundaries. That's is all I am saying.

Last edited by TranquilDark; 03/22/13 09:50 PM.
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Originally Posted By: TranquilDark
My typing didn't convey what I meant. I meant that this has become a distraction to the point of this thread which is FL infidelity and Plan A. All I am saying is lets focus on this posters marriage. This should be discussed in other topics. I agree that Dr. H doesn't endorse adultery. It is already known to anyone who knows of the policies and SAA. FL needs to let his WW know what he did and continue to Plan A and up his boundaries. That's is all I am saying.


NO SIR, it is not a distraction to correct misinformation in this thread. It is an IMPERATIVE.

The bigger distraction is YOUR telling other posters how and what they should post. That is disrespectful and offensive.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
"I suggest you all consult with Dr Harley on this matter as mentioned from the caller on the radio program. I just quoted what he said and referenced my story. Look up the segment for yourself."

I heard the radio show and Dr Harley DID NOT endorse adultery. He never has. H is dead set against adultery. You are misrepresenting Dr Harleys position.

What was the segment or date?


I think it was last week. A FWW called in complaining about her husbands revenge affair. I will go see if I can find it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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BH, it was March 11th. The caller is Jan. I am listening to the first clip now.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
BH, it was March 11th. The caller is Jan. I am listening to the first clip now.

Thanks, I was just back on the 12th proceeding to the 11th.

Here it is.
Radio Clip of FWW and her W/BH having a RA
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4


FWW/BW (me)
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2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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20YearHistory:

Quote:
A couple weeks ago, on the radio program, a BS had also met someone else and it shocked his WW back into wanting to reunite.

The WW was the caller and after some questioning, Dr Harley asked her (paraphrasing) 'so, did your H meeting someone else have influence you wanting the M back?' The caller said yes.

Joyce was upset by the notion of this and Dr Harley said "Well, in this case it worked". He did not condone it but at the same time he did not vehemently denounce it. Joyce did. Dr Harley did not.

Same thing happened to me when I was separated with my FWW. Actually, I met someone and we went out. Looking back, it wasn't the right thing to do. At the same time, it was refreshing for someone to actually want me after such harsh rejection from my W. When we decided to R, I quickly ended it but I dont regret it for one minute.

This notion shocked my W back into reality as up until this, she was still in contact with POSOM and we were separated. She was cake eating big time. Once she saw that I might not be there forever waiting on her, her position quickly changed.

It did help my personal self image as it had been shattered by the betrayal. It helped me in some ways let go of the notion that maybe my M was going to end and I was going to be okay.


The person Joyce and I were talking to on our radio program had ended her affair, but her husband, who began his affair after her's had started, had not. That's only one of the problems with dating while your spouse is having an affair. Just about the time one person's affair has died a natural death, the other spouse's affair in going ahead full-steam. There's no assurance that his affair will end anytime soon, and if he doesn't end his, she is likely to start another.

While it's a comfort to know that someone is attracted to you when your spouse has betrayed you, dating when your spouse is having an affair usually makes reconciliation much more difficult. In your case, you were able to end the affair when your spouse ended hers, but it's risky to assume that most people could do that with ease.

When I made my comment, it was supposed to be a softball that Joyce would hit out of the park. She made it clear that it wouldn't be a good idea, and I recall agreeing with her, but we should have made more of it.

When I was dating Joyce, and she broke up with me (several times), I'd have another girlfriend usually within a day. But by doing that, I certainly wasn't doing it to make her jealous. If any of the girls I dated while we were not dating had appealed to me as much as Joyce appealed to me, Joyce would have been left far behind. I was not saving myself for her. I'm not sure you would have saved yourself for your wife if one of the women you dated had blown your sox off.

Dating when your spouse is having an affair makes reconciliation far less likely, especially when the betrayed spouse falls in love with their new other person. And it introduces the problem that you did cheat on your wife. There are hundreds of couples I've counseled who had a very difficult time coming together after the betrayed spouse cheated. I consistently advise betrayed spouses to avoid the temptation of dating if they are serious about saving their marriage.

I'll be more careful next time I raise common objections to my program.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

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Thank you so much for weighing in, Dr Harley!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Thanx for clarifying DrH, although some of us already knew you weren't condoning adultery.

ML thank you, as always for not letting things like this "slide".

FlGuy, now that we have established that you had a PHYSICAL AFFAIR, and you have become wayward, how are you going to fix this? HINT, the answers are contained on this very site, and now you have to work doubly hard, since you will be working the program and both a BS and a WS. That can't be easy, and is a MAJOR reason we warn BSs to keep HIGH boundaries directly after DDay.

So, have you changed you number so OW can't contact you again? Have you told your B/WW?

FlGuyMom, believe me, we understand the need to protect your son, and help him through this. THing is, him becoming a wayward is in NO WAY going to benefit him. Whether the mother of your grandchildren comes to her senses or not, your son needs to act with integrity, and show his children how to act in the face of complete devastation, and come out a better man


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

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FG, hope you are still reading here.

I have followed your stitch from the start and was really rooting for you.

To me your recent waywardness is upsetting not just because of the things already stated here by many of the wise vets. I feel a deep sadness and concern for the kids more than anything.

Your kids lives have already been turned upside down by the actions of their wayward mother, she had chosen to be selfish and indulge in partying and socialising with her bestie and the OM instead of her family and kids security and happiness. your kids already have one addict/drunk in the family and now you want to join that standard??? Do they really deserve both parents acting in such a selfish manner with little regard for them?? What kind of example are you hoping to set for them?

When one paren is on the wayward train the other parent is supposed to be their rock and help them through this painful time yet you go out on the prowel with your uncle? Did you stop to think about them? Because your WW is letting them down and you are heading down that same path. Shame on you both however she is not as informed as you regarding the MB concepts and that there is a way to turn things round if she wanted to.

Confidence in yourself should come from stepping up, being a great father and having good morals not from hooking up with strangers at bars.

As far as your family wanting you to move on ask them to consider the children in that equation as well. How would the kids react to mummy and daddy separating then within less than one moth both mummy and daddy are hooking up with new people?? Does not sound right now does it. Your happiness should not come at the kids expense nor should you be with anyone until your feelings for your WW are resolved permanently, how fair would it be for you to inflict your confusion on the next woman that dates you?? Many of the rebound BS Waywards have deeply hurt other people when they dated before resolving their feelings for their WS even after they divorced.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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FG,

Not sure where to begin. I have followed your stitch from the beginning as well. Right away I was floored by your confidence and how well you were working MB principals and really following a plan of action. Now that was a truly confident FG!

Now, I really don't see a confident man. I see a foggy, selfish, cocky man. I'm sorry and I may be a little bias because my BH had a RA and I know the double damage that it did to my children and my family.

His number one reason, excuse for doing it was to feel confident again because I broke him and he needed to do this to prove to himself and me that he was wanted. For a long time he did not own his own actions and chose to blame me. Guess what, your choices that you make right now are your choices.


Your post in which you connect your new "confident" conversations with WW to your foggy ways really bothers me. I feel you are saying because you went out to a bar got another woman's number and attempted to have your own affair (aka If she can do it I can do it too) now you can talk to your wife with much more confidence.


Maybe I am wrong and I know these post don't ever do the entire story justice but as you continue to pat yourself on the back and talk about your growing confidence, I am loosing my confidence in you and your marriage. Why? Because I see the fog. The same fog that got me, and then got my BH.

You have got to look at things from your children's perspective. Something both my H and I did not do and we dragged them down to hell and back before we stopped being so selfish. I don't want to see you make the same mistake.

So it is good that you feel better, are exercising, eating better yada yada yada but honestly "get over yourself" and get back into saving your marriage.

Last edited by fifteenyears; 03/24/13 11:33 AM.

Me (WS) Husband (BS)
DS - 15
DD -10
My D-day - 11/12/11

Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
You folks go on debating what Dr. Harley did/did not say, and how strident was Joyce's protest at the time.

Meanwhile, there is much important work to be done using the admissions that FG has made as data, as opposed to whipping him with it.

FG, try to objectively look at your situation/mindset, and decide what your recent forays (real and cyber) into infidelity are saying about yourself, your opinions of WW and your marriage, and your $LB. Please answer these questions:

A - If WW walked back into your life right now, could/would you accept her back, on a path to eventually regain her prior standing as your life-partner? Yes=1, No=0

B - Can you see a future without her as easily, and as pleasant, as one with her? Yes=0, No=1

C - Are you still willing to suffer great disappointment and humiliating rejection, on the basis of whatever chance you feel you have to entice her back to the marriage. Yes=1, No=0

D - Would the idea of just being done with this marriage, from where you stand today, seem more like relief (=0), or tragedy (=1)?

E - Can you envision satisfying her key ENs, without expectation, as she continues to pursue her affair, and reject your efforts? Yes=1, No=0

Obviously a score of "5" would put you in the limited pantheon of "Plan A Heroes" with GJM, and, increasingly, TD. A "0" would put you in the company of "Plan A Not Likelies" as, well,....NG.

So while chasing other women is NOT recommended, dude, what the impetus to do so can tell YOU may well be valuable. What did you score?


Hello NG, great questions and I will answer as honestly as possible. Mom wanted to post a reply to everyone this week but is waiting for my score first.

A = Yes 1
B = Yes 0
C = Yes 1
D = Tragedy 1 (tragedy more for boys than me)
E = Yes 1

So I guess I am at a soft 4 right now. Now what?


ME: BS, 37
WW: 37
DS 7 DS 5
Married 11 Years
DDay 2/4/13 EA
ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13
Nuclear Expose:2/18/13
Currently in Plan A
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Wanted to give a quick update:

I am really sorry for the back and fourth on my thread over the weekend. I truly am thankful for everyone here that has chosen to help me through this darkest period of my life.

What I did was wrong... Period. I understand that. I am still married and my poor choices are not helping my situation.

I invited WW to disney with the boys and I Friday night and she declined. Her cousin was in town visiting and they were having a girls night out. I confirmed this through fb emails. How a mother would rather not see her child on their birthday and would rather go out to party is beyond me.

Saw WW and MIL at the birthday party Saturday. All was polite and friendly with WW but MIL was very withdrawn. I went over to MIL at the end of the party and asked her if she needed anything and her reply was "not from you." I told her if she needed any help while FIL was away to let me know. Her reply "I don't need any help." And that was that...

I offered to WW that she can drop off the boys to the house each AM and I will take to the bus. I will also pick them up from the bus stop everyday. She quickly replied yes and that would be a big help. So, at least I will get to see the boys everyday now and will get to see WW also.

WW's brother sent WW and FB email that I thought was interesting. BIL is a former OM with a lifelong drinking problem who just discovered his girlfriend having an A about 4 mo's ago. I am posting this to show just how foggy my WW truly is.

From BIL to WW: Hey there! I here there are some big changes going with you. I have been getting my own life in order, and I guess that made me a bit distant, but I'm here if you need to talk. I would like to know what is up with you, and what Mom has told me. I hope you are ok. I have been working 60 hours a week. We don't have our manager at work right now, and me and the other guy have been splitting between fixing cars, and managing the shop. My home life is better than it has been in years though. I made great progress in therapy, and [girlfriend] and I have a whole new relationship now. Same with the kids. I may just be getting older, but I am dealing with stress so much better now. It isn't even cause of meds (though they help!). I have let go of so much emotional baggage. Let me know what's up, and keep your head high. You're from a tough blood line. You can take care of anything, if you take it smart. Keep me in the loop. K?


Oh, and Happy Birthday to D7!! I'll send something when I get my paycheck resolved. We just joined our bank accounts, and I am waiting for all the direct deposits to change over.


WW to BIL: Hi Yes lots of changes happening but one thing that I am is OK. I really am. I will give you the low down one of these nights and its not that I didn't want to tell you. I just was tired of talking about it and just have been focusing on the boys. My best friends don't even know what's going on with me. These past two months have been so crazy but one thing I have learned is just how strong I really am. I'm slowly rediscovering myself and it is a phenomenal feeling. Not to worry..I'm just taking one day at a time. That's all that I can do. Tomorrow is [D7] bowling party. He is so excited. I'll tell him that you wished him a Happy Birthday. I'm glad to here that things are going good with you. I will call you soon tho. Just let me know a good time. Thanks for reaching out. It means a lot. Talk to you soon. Xo


Focusing on the boys?? By not seeing your son on his birthday? Rather go out partying? Being strong? By continuing your affair and not working on your marriage and doing the right thing for your family? puke


ME: BS, 37
WW: 37
DS 7 DS 5
Married 11 Years
DDay 2/4/13 EA
ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13
Nuclear Expose:2/18/13
Currently in Plan A
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So I guess I am at a soft 4 right now. Now what?

Let's call it a 3.5!

Okay, with that information - that you supplied, dude - you have to get on your "Plan A Pony" and ride that sucker until it drops from exhaustion. (Much later, I'm going to return with MY sledgehammer about your RAs!)

You also mention that WW is finding that her rosy future with POSOM ain't looking so rosy. Good! Let her try to attract a suitable mate with half-time motherhood, living with her parents (and the dog laugh ) and supporting herself.

Meanwhile, you have to start being the Plan A hero. You are independent. You are not "needy". You develop into a gourmet chef, start dressing well, and remind WW of the prize she is letting pass by.

Remember, dude, you answered the damn questions, and the advice comes straight from YOUR desires. You cannot argue with it, because you're arguing against the interests you brought forward.

Are you in, 100%, no doubts, no expectations?

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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
So I guess I am at a soft 4 right now. Now what?

Let's call it a 3.5!

Okay, with that information - that you supplied, dude - you have to get on your "Plan A Pony" and ride that sucker until it drops from exhaustion. (Much later, I'm going to return with MY sledgehammer about your RAs!)

You also mention that WW is finding that her rosy future with POSOM ain't looking so rosy. Good! Let her try to attract a suitable mate with half-time motherhood, living with her parents (and the dog laugh ) and supporting herself.

Meanwhile, you have to start being the Plan A hero. You are independent. You are not "needy". You develop into a gourmet chef, start dressing well, and remind WW of the prize she is letting pass by.

Remember, dude, you answered the damn questions, and the advice comes straight from YOUR desires. You cannot argue with it, because you're arguing against the interests you brought forward.

Are you in, 100%, no doubts, no expectations?


I am in NG 100%. I really have ZERO expectations.

However; I still think her A is going strong. Today she was looking up an unknown astrology sign and their compatibility to her sign... Guess now she is so lost she is looking at the starts for help.

Plan A is in full effect. Seeing WW almost everyday now should help.

Sorry MOM...

Just ran meds to WW as D5 is sick again.


ME: BS, 37
WW: 37
DS 7 DS 5
Married 11 Years
DDay 2/4/13 EA
ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13
Nuclear Expose:2/18/13
Currently in Plan A
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Originally Posted By: Floridaguy
Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
So I guess I am at a soft 4 right now. Now what?

Let's call it a 3.5!

Okay, with that information - that you supplied, dude - you have to get on your "Plan A Pony" and ride that sucker until it drops from exhaustion. (Much later, I'm going to return with MY sledgehammer about your RAs!)

You also mention that WW is finding that her rosy future with POSOM ain't looking so rosy. Good! Let her try to attract a suitable mate with half-time motherhood, living with her parents (and the dog laugh ) and supporting herself.

Meanwhile, you have to start being the Plan A hero. You are independent. You are not "needy". You develop into a gourmet chef, start dressing well, and remind WW of the prize she is letting pass by.

Remember, dude, you answered the damn questions, and the advice comes straight from YOUR desires. You cannot argue with it, because you're arguing against the interests you brought forward.

Are you in, 100%, no doubts, no expectations?


I am in NG 100%. I really have ZERO expectations.

However; I still think her A is going strong. Today she was looking up an unknown astrology sign and their compatibility to her sign... Guess now she is so lost she is looking at the starts for help.

Plan A is in full effect. Seeing WW almost everyday now should help.

Sorry MOM...

Just ran meds to WW as D5 is sick again.


Dont be sorry, when WW comes out of the fog and is your real wife, I'm on board. Just hate to see you hurting.

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FLG has left the building?

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Hope you are doing well. Thought this was the date you would be able to work from home.


BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Originally Posted By: graceful2b
Hope you are doing well. Thought this was the date you would be able to work from home.


Hello TD ad G2B. Thank you for thinking of me. I have been doing very well lately. Actually, I am in a really good place right now. I have been staying extremely busy doing all the things that I never had time to do before the S.

Since DDay 2/4/13 I am down 42 lbs! I have started boxing with a MMA personal trainer and am loving the intensity and discipline being pummeled into me each day. I went fishing on the gulf again with friends that I had not seen for over 7 years. It was great to reconnect with old friends that I simply neglected during my marriage.

Went to Easter Mass Sunday AM and got to go golfing after. I always wanted to golf more but just never had the time. Well, no excuses now! Had Uncle and Nephew over for Easter dinner and we got to eat all the fish we caught the day before. I am really starting to enjoy cooking. I could hardly boil water before DDay.

Not much to post about WW. She is still full on with OM. She even Googled "love notes" last week on her PC. She went through a few search results of "loving texts to send your boyfriend" and "love notes to send your boyfriend" puke

I really don't feel much about it. I could hardly care what she is doing. She is so nice when we talk it almost makes me sick. I am being Mr Nice guy and just trying to be a great Dad. No LB's and I just don't even discuss US.

Uncle's XW called last week to see how I was. She mentioned that she has not talked to WW and was concerned. She said WW had not called her or texted in over a week. Per WW's email to her Brother last week she said "even my best Friends don't know what I am doing" WW is just lot in her fog.

I started working from home today and I will get to see the boys almost everyday now that WW will be dropping them off each morning! D7 spent the whole day with me today because his school was closed and he mentioned that he misses home and they did nothing the entire week.

WW and I have made a week switch so that I will have the boys when my Uncle has his son so starting this Wednesday I will have them for 12 straight days. So excited!! Taking them to the Florida Gators spring football game Saturday and Sunday after Church to the boxing gym for some kids training. Then next weekend I am taking them on an Air-boat ECO tour of a local swamp preserve.

So, right now I am good. I am REALLY good... Oh, I have not/am not taking/texting/seeing any OW... Zero..Nadda...

Last edited by Floridaguy; 04/01/13 07:57 PM.

ME: BS, 37
WW: 37
DS 7 DS 5
Married 11 Years
DDay 2/4/13 EA
ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13
Nuclear Expose:2/18/13
Currently in Plan A
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