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I agree, I think she wants to say well I tried and go off and be an adulteress. She got her feet in the water and scared to swim. It's all about me (tea) and not about her poor BH. Start the defogging process!

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Thank you all for your insightful posts. Reading them helps me tremendously even if they get a little harsh. I'll try to answer all of them later tonight.

I scheduled a polygraph test for myself for next Saturday (April 14). I told my husband everything but I still feel it's a crucial step if we're to reconcile. I don't want him to have any doubts about what happened even if he decides to end our marriage. It'll help him to heal faster.

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Originally Posted By: TranquilDark
I agree, I think she wants to say well I tried and go off and be an adulteress. She got her feet in the water and scared to swim. It's all about me (tea) and not about her poor BH. Start the defogging process!


I'd like to positively and confidently dispel any doubts you may have - I don't want to be adulteress. Actually, I concede this idea to be outright ludicrous.

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Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl


So, does no sinner deserve a second chance?

Tea, you have two different issues here. As far as second chances in marriage with your BH go, yes, it is totally up to him as to whether or not to give you a second chance. But even should that not happen, don't you believe that you as a person deserve an opportunity for redemption?

Self-forgiveness has been difficult for me and at times I think the best I can come to is acceptance. I cheated on my husband, I lied to him, I inflicted extreme emotional damage on him. I can't change it, I can only move forward. I could accept a changed concept of myself as a whore/slut/adulterer, or I could work to change my own personal shortcomings to become a better human being...at the same time, trying to show that I was capable of being the kind of wife that my H deserved.

I'm not saying that I didn't wallow in self-pity during the last three years, and I'm not saying that I don't feel self-pity at all now. I am not perfect. I did not recover my marriage, but I saw the person I was during my adultery and I decided I did not want to be that person anymore.

Being forgiven is more that just saying "I'm sorry." It's more than donning sackcloth and ashes and moaning about how worthless you are. Part of seeking forgiveness is trying to make amends to your victim. He may choose not to accept your attempts at making amends, and that is his choice. Your choice is whether or not you allow your actions to define your worth as a person. I agree - your actions as an adulterer were despicable. So what kind of actions do you want to show your husband now?



Thank you, WPG. This is exactly what I needed to hear. I'm OK for the most part but when guilt kicks in, it does hard. I guess I'm not an affair material. I know it was my first and last.

My story isn't as bad as most I have read here but it's still bad enough to end our marriage. My husband is coming back from Europe tomorrow evening and I literally feel like a patient preparing for my cancer test results. I just hope it isn't terminal.

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Originally Posted By: fifteenyears


Tea,

Ditto to everything WPG said. I could not have said it any better and everything she said rings true to my experiences.

You asked some tough questions and a over a year ago I might have looked at what you said and agreed with every word. For a long time I did not think I deserved anything and I probably didn't but I am not the person I was a year ago.

Tea, I think all of the time about where I would be today if my AP did not confess to his wife. I like to think that everything happens for a reason and honestly thank God every day that things went down the way they did. I would be lying if I said that if not for getting caught I might not still be in my foggy mess. I can't live my life in "what ifs" anymore.


So your question to me is "Do you think we deserve a second chance" and my answer is YES. It took me a long time to be able to say this and to even feel like I deserve it. But looking at who I am now and who I was I can honestly say that I am a different person.

You keep saying that you wish that you could go back to the women you were? But was that woman really better than women you can become? What if you can become that women again but even smarter, wiser, with higher boundaries that you know will stick?


Yes, you fell from grace and now you have the opportunity to pick yourself up and improve upon your faults. A year ago I would have read what you said and agreed with you 100%. I would have said who am I to give anyone advice, I deserve nothing, I am a horrible person.... Guess what I pulled my head out of my butt, took of my pity cloak, and got to work making sure that I would never again allow myself to be a WW.

Anyone who is truly willing to make the change and truly repent deserves a second chance.


Always great to hear from you, Fifteenyears.

Personally I don't subscribe to this "everything happens for a reason" doctrine. On psychological level it's very comforting way of copping with difficulties in life but it seems to me like being just a step away from believing in pixie dust. I prefer to accept that some events occur because of a combination of chance, accidents, and human irrationality. Life can be highly meaningful even if some things that happen are just accidents.

Stuff happens and we need to deal with it, right?

I'll tell you somthing, like one cake eater to another, I can't wait for my husband to get back but I'm scared like merde. I'll take day off tomorrow.

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Originally Posted By: Wow777


Your husband is hurting right now. He is not sure that you want him either. Start by showing him that you do. Start by sending him the text messages, emails that tell him you're wanting/willing to work on things to have a happy marriage. Regardless of what he sends or doesn't send back. Keep telling him.



Wow777, he wanted to get this thing off his mind as much as he could and asked me not to contact him until his return. I told him to call me at any time of day or night if he wanted to call but he never did.


Originally Posted By: alias


Typical behaviour of an adulterer - seeking admiration from others but ignoring the obvious - your spouse.



Not true. Admiration form others has been a bane of my existance for last 20 years. I may be slightly melodramatical here but it's created a lot problems in my life.


Originally Posted By: graceful2b


Your husband has sent you here for a reason.

Your right! your marriage will not be the same any longer. Whether you divorce or not ----what you had is gone forever.



He didn't, I found it working on his PC and read his thread. I know I'm a terrible wife. And you are probaly right about our marriage.


Originally Posted By: pokerface


Have you read any of the books or articles? Have you called the coaching center? Have you done anything to learn how to repair the damage? On what basis do you think it is irreversible?

Pick yourself up girlfriend.



There was a package delivered from Amazon.com last Saturday with two books inside. I've haven't opened it but based on what I read in my husband's thread he ordered Surviving and Affair.

I'm trying to pick myself up.


Originally Posted By: Pepperband

Ou contraire mon ami .... the picture is about to become better. Esprons-le!
Your perfection of success needed some humanity. Some humility.
Guess what? Every sincere person on this forum had to do the same thing. The betrayed spouse who becomes successful in marriage recovery does so with renewed humility. The successful wandering spouse will also move forward with new found humility.



Pepperband, I've always treated my husband very well and he was a happy man. He really was. Of course, that was before I cheated on him.

I need to go to work now.

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Originally Posted By: 20YearHistory
Originally Posted By: pokerface
Your husband is on the floor bleeding and you are trying to convince yourself that it would be better to let him bleed out as you turn away once again.


That is because her attitude is one of someone that is either:

1) ALL the facts of the A are not out on the table ie..still more that her H does not know yet. Much more of the story to be told?? hmmmm

or

2) The A is still going strong


Maybe I'm right..maybe I'm wrong.




You're just embarrassing yourself

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Originally Posted By: tea1981

You're just embarrassing yourself


That is rich.

Wait, aren't you the one who had an A?

I assure you I have nothing to be embarrassed about. I have seen your type many times.

All waywards think somehow they are special or unique in their circumstances.

Many think that after discovery, they are thinking very clearly and have perspective. However, many play game after game after game trying to throw their BS off balance by gaslighting to continue their ways.

Many BSs want to believe that after discovery, their WS will see the light and wake up. As Dr Harley says Most affairs die a natural death.

The fact that you are unwilling to help your H WHO IS LAYING ON THE FLOOR IN MISERY is a HUGE red flag.

You clearly know your H is reading your thread. If you had such great perspective on things I suspect you would not have found yourself in this situation.

Prove me wrong with a poly. I pray for your H that you are telling the truth. It usually isnt the A that leads to most divorces after an A. It is the lies and deceit.

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Originally Posted By: tea1981
My husband is coming back from Europe tomorrow evening and I literally feel like a patient preparing for my cancer test results. I just hope it isn't terminal.



You need to meet him with a PLAN for how you are going to protect your marriage from now on and how you can rebuild the respect and love. The book will help you with this.

I'm surprised that you have done nothing to figure out how to repair this. It will look to him like you have given up. Why would he want to stay if you yourself see it as hopeless and think that the damage is irreversible? You need to fight tea. Betrayed spouses look at ACTIONS...words are meaningless.



Do you need help with a plan?


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DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

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Originally Posted By: tea1981


I scheduled a polygraph test for myself for next Saturday (April 14). I told my husband everything but I still feel it's a crucial step if we're to reconcile. I don't want him to have any doubts about what happened even if he decides to end our marriage. It'll help him to heal faster.


Excellent step. This is the type of ACTION that your BH needs to see...even if he doesn't seem to think it is necessary. He will see it.


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I think you are off base 20yearhistory. Tea stated that she scheduled a poly. I don't think your attitude is helpful at this point. Tea seems contrite and remorseful....as well as being open and honest. She is in the right place and doing better than most at this point.

I hope she has a shot at having a better marriage than before the A... as many of us in recovery have experienced through a lot more hell than her BS has been through with her.

If Opiel decides to D at this point he could be setting himself up for more disappointments in future relationships that could end up worse than what he currently has if he doesn't work the MB program within this marriage. Working within his current marriage and learning through all the pain of the roller coaster of emotions would certainly help them have a more solid, fulfilling marriage in the future.

Having been a BS, I know that time does heal the sting of the pain from the A. The constant reliving, visions, etc...all dissipate with time. But, it does take time....lots of time.

I wish them the best.

-A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor. -


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I don't think it is unreasonable to question why a genuinely remorseful WS would repeatedly state that the situation is hopeless rather than striving to provide just compensation.

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I think she has already received that message. She has to gather up all her strength to fight for her marriage instead of wallowing in the self pity of defeat and expectation that the ax is coming down on her marriage upon the return of her BS.

I think we have a willing WW here...someone ready to grow and learn...and not needing to be slammed because it is hard to regroup when feeling like a complete failure.

I know you all mean well...we all want to help them succeed. I just don't want to scare her away in defeat before she barely gets started.


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Originally Posted By: JessicaClaire
I don't think it is unreasonable to question why a genuinely remorseful WS would repeatedly state that the situation is hopeless rather than striving to provide just compensation.


tea you are getting great insight into how a betrayed spouse views things.

Do not discredit what a BS posts to you...learn from it.


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Originally Posted By: Trix
I think you are off base 20yearhistory. Tea stated that she scheduled a poly. I don't think your attitude is helpful at this point. Tea seems contrite and remorseful....as well as being open and honest. She is in the right place and doing better than most at this point.


Unfortunately things are not always as they seem.


As I said, she can prove me wrong with a poly.


I am a little surprised that anyone on this board would believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a wayward, especially at this early stage.


We have seen situations here where a WS uses this board to convince their BS that they are being honest and then it comes out at a later time they were lying the entire time.


Hey, I hope for her BS that I am dead wrong.

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Originally Posted By: pokerface
Originally Posted By: tea1981
My husband is coming back from Europe tomorrow evening and I literally feel like a patient preparing for my cancer test results. I just hope it isn't terminal.



You need to meet him with a PLAN for how you are going to protect your marriage from now on and how you can rebuild the respect and love. The book will help you with this.

I'm surprised that you have done nothing to figure out how to repair this. It will look to him like you have given up. Why would he want to stay if you yourself see it as hopeless and think that the damage is irreversible? You need to fight tea. Betrayed spouses look at ACTIONS...words are meaningless.

Do you need help with a plan?


You may not be able to develop a full plan before he gets back. You should, however, plan on reading the books together when he returns and commti to forging a plan together. If he refuses, make your own plan to become a different person and let him see the changes.

Just like other people in the position you and Opiel are in, the plan should be to talk only of reconcilling and your wish for a strong healthy marriage. Do not talk of divorce with him. Just reassure him that you are in this for the long haul. Don't condemn yourself anymore either, it's very unattractive to your husband and keeps reminding him of the affair.


Me - BH 49 years old
Her - WW 43 years old
Married 20 years
D Day Jan 7, 2013
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Tea,
I am encouraged by your remorse and willingness to repair you relationship and keep your family together, thanks for sharing with us. I reiterate what others are saying that you need to have a plan ready to present and implement.

You can start by asking your BH if he would rather be in love with a complete stranger or the mother of his children ? If his answer is not the mother of his children, then this is a huge red flag ?

My WW is still heading in the opposite direction from you, but if she ever changes her mind and wants to work things out, the plan that I posted on my thread is based on the four rules from the SAA book, as follows:

Marriage Healing Plan
1. No Contact Letter to Affair Partner must witness it being written and mailed.
2. Full disclosure of all affairs had since marriage confirmed by Polygraph testing
3. After above affairs never mentioned again.
4. Cell phone number changed
5. New email address
6. Commit to Rule of Protection POJA on all decisions, no DJs, AOs
7. Commit to Rule of Care Identify top emotional needs
8. Commit to Rule of Time 20+ hours per week of UA time spent on above needs including SF, RC, Affection, Conversation.
9. Commit to Rule of Honesty we will have access to each other cell phones, email, computers with passwords for Social Networking and banking.
10. No more opposite sex friendships, No more inappropriate flirting with opposite sex
11. Review the plan monthly and make corrections as needed.
12. Use the MB forum as needed for added help and coaching.

Of course your plan will have some differences.


Me: BS - 55
Her: ex W - 50
Together 25 years Married 1990
DD 10/16/2012
DS 24&20
DD - 17
Currently in Plan B
Divorce Papers Filed 11/29/2012
Final Divorce hearing June 2013

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Originally Posted By: tea1981
...during my modeling years I had no problems with keeping men at distance. I was a "print out" model for a decade, I did New York, Milan, Paris, Tokyo . . . I've been always an intellectual type. I can fluently speak two foreign languages. I can't draw or paint like my husband but I can create breath taking images with Photoshop. . . . I noticed I'm becoming a Caucasian counterpart of Serena Williams - the drama seems to follow me everywhere. . . . I always considered myself to be successful on all levels: academic, professional, and personal.. . . I guess I'm not an affair material. Ahem...at risk of stating the obvious, you've already proven this untrue.. . . My story isn't as bad as most I have read here. . . Admiration form others has been a bane of my existance for last 20 years. I may be slightly melodramatical here but it's created a lot problems in my life.
. . . I've always treated my husband very well. Again, I hate to state the obvious, but you certainly don't have any ego problems, and you're much more focused on yourself than on your husband.
Originally Posted By: TranquilDark
I agree, I think she wants to say well I tried and go off and be an adulteress. She got her feet in the water and scared to swim. It's all about me (tea) and not about her poor BH. Start the defogging process!


I'd like to positively and confidently dispel any doubts you may have - I don't want to be adulteress. Actually, I concede this idea to be outright ludicrous.


Originally Posted By: tea1981
Originally Posted By: 20YearHistory
Originally Posted By: pokerface
Your husband is on the floor bleeding and you are trying to convince yourself that it would be better to let him bleed out as you turn away once again.


That is because her attitude is one of someone that is either:

1) ALL the facts of the A are not out on the table ie..still more that her H does not know yet. Much more of the story to be told?? hmmmm

or

2) The A is still going strong


Maybe I'm right..maybe I'm wrong.




You're just embarrassing yourself


Tea: People who are genuinely contrite, humble, and remorseful, don't make a big show of it and then go on the attack as soon as their behavior is questioned.

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Originally Posted By: Southpaw
You can start by asking your BH if he would rather be in love with a complete stranger or the mother of his children ? If his answer is not the mother of his children, then this is a huge red flag ?

They don't have any children.


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Originally Posted By: Trix
I think she has already received that message. She has to gather up all her strength to fight for her marriage instead of wallowing in the self pity of defeat and expectation that the ax is coming down on her marriage upon the return of her BS.

I think we have a willing WW here...someone ready to grow and learn...and not needing to be slammed because it is hard to regroup when feeling like a complete failure.

I know you all mean well...we all want to help them succeed. I just don't want to scare her away in defeat before she barely gets started.


You may very well be right.

However, the problem with your theory is that the initial steps to validate your position have yet to be established.

Such as:

1) Come clean with ALL the facts. Leave nothing out. Answer every single question he has honestly
2) Write a NC letter
3) Identify and eliminate the conditions that lead to the A
4) Pass a poly (great step- possibly scheduled)
5) Create and implement EP's

These would be great first steps to prove her sincerity. These are all things she can do on her own without any type of buy-in from her BH.

Actions are the key here..not beautifully crafted words and phrases- which is all we have seen at this stage.

As a BS the only reason I ever post to a WS is to help the BS. I am acutely aware that the only way her H can truly heal from the most horrific event of his LIFEis from HER.

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