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Quote:
We are doing better. unfortunately she is pregnant and we don't know who the father is and he passed on at least one std to her (HPV) and we are checking for others.


What you should expose is the news of the affair, NOT any information related to the pregnancy. Just leave well enough alone. And most certainly, do not tell the OM about it.

Just presume this child is yours and leave it at that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Quote:
We are doing better. unfortunately she is pregnant and we don't know who the father is and he passed on at least one std to her (HPV) and we are checking for others.


What you should expose is the news of the affair, NOT any information related to the pregnancy. Just leave well enough alone. And most certainly, do not tell the OM about it.

Just presume this child is yours and leave it at that.

And remain a strong NC for life.

Can you move?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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She has agreed to NC and knows my del breakers
1. she contacts him
2. He contacts her and she doesn't immediately tell me
3. She sees him and doesn't immediately tell me.

He knows she is pregnant (she told him first which hurt) but I plan on avoiding any contact with him in the future about anything and everything.

I have not told any members of either of our families. just a few select friends that could support me without judging her.
We had been counseled by several people on it and we get "don't tell anyone who doesn't need to know as it will hurt your family more" and "do what God leads you to do" fww wants to follow the first plan obviously and I am trying to follow the policy of mutual agreement. In fww's case this may be the wise thing as she is EXTRAORDINARILY easily offended and I think would do more harm then good. We are debating on telling our parents but haven't decided yet.

Does the POJMA apply to exposure in this situation where the affair is definately over?


Me: 34 BH
Her: 31 FWW
DD (6)
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D-day 2/2/13

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Sorry re-posting this in an easier to read format, didn't even think of it when I wrote it. It won't let me edit previous post.

My Full Story
I am 34 and fww is 31. We have two kids DS is 3 and DD is 6. We were married young but have been happy.

When I was in college she went to dinner with her boss and on the way home he started touching her. she let him and they wound up having oral sex together. He was just moving to another state so there was no further contact. She told me a few months later (that was in 2003). She said she was flattered that a man as "great" as him would want her. Mind you my wife is smoking hot, she just doesn't see it.

I forgave her but was never able to let it go. I dwelled on it and that led to me being emotionally distant. I worked a very tiring and stressfull job that left me drained and didn't give me much time in the day to communicate with her. This past summer we went to a marriage seminar at our church and worked things out. I was finally able to let go and trust her again. When I told her that she broke down in tears and told me how good it fealt to be trusted again. 1 or 2 months later she was cheating, all the while leading me to believe that everything was better. Turns out she was discontented and just going through the motions.

We both go to the gym alot and men were "noticing" her and she liked it. She'd go early in the am so she could be home in time for me to go to work. At the end of her workout she'd sit in sauna for 15-20 minutes, thats where she met posom. He's typical football coach, knows what to say to make people feel good. So they talked and flirted. She thought it was innocent, and I told her that men do not see flirting as innocent. Flirting with a man is telling him that it is ok to proceed.

Obviously she didn't listen. He made her feel good. She told me later that he would tell her she was beautiful. I tell her this all of the time, because she is gorgeous. "But I beleived it when he said it" Anyways they went on a hike (bad idea letting her go on recreational activities with om) but I was in a pickle. Did I trust her or not? She picked him up for hike and he kissed her, she resisted, then gave in. Groping and oral sex followed. she said she just didn't care anymore.

She came home and acted as if nothing happened. She knew she made a mistake but instead of telling me there and ending it, she talked to him more and that led to sex. She'd meet him before the gym, at the gym, in the steam room, in the sauna room. She was his and she gave him what he wanted. She said she thought it would only last a short time as he was supposed to be leaving the country to coach again.

well after two months she finally realized that he just wanted sex. Then she found out she was pregnant (We were also having sex) he recommended an abortion, he wasn't ready to be a father (he has grown up children already) but wanted to keep meeting her for sex. I started a new job at this time so she wan't able to go to gym in mornings and things fizzled out due to time constraints. She was still talking to him though.

Some of the things that she had said or ways she acted made me just a bit suspicious so I asked her if there was any chance the baby wasn't mine. She looked me in the eyes and said no, I beleived her. The next night she told me, leaving some things out "to protect me". the next few weeks were hell and every once in awhile with prodding she would reveal more, or admit to lies.

But she ceased all contact with him. We worked on things for th next month. I tried several times to get om to meet me over coffe and talk but he didn't have the courage to respond. We finally aggreed to tell OM's wife. She had suspected, but like I said, he's a good talker. So we met with her and fww told everything and answered any questions. They are getting a divorce.

fww and I are working on things and the pain is much less. Our marriage is better now then it has been in years, but I need to focus on it not happening again. Her pitfalls are that she likes male attention and she didn't see flirting as bad. She also didn't see flaunting what God gave her as bad, she wanted male attention (alot of that came from her discontentment) With the Grace of God we are healing and trying to avoid LBers and keep our family together. She is learning through our counseler how to be content even when things aren't rainbows and lollypops.


I failed to mention that OM is 50 years old, has children my wife's age and is on his 3rd marriage.


Me: 34 BH
Her: 31 FWW
DD (6)
DS (3)
D-day 2/2/13

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Originally Posted By: klovelistener
She has agreed to NC and knows my del breakers
1. she contacts him
2. He contacts her and she doesn't immediately tell me
3. She sees him and doesn't immediately tell me.


Items #2 and #3 are extremely problematic because they allow for continued contact. It is critical that all contact end by shutting off any avenue of potential contact. If there is a way for him to contact her, it should be shut off. If there is a way for her to see him, that way should be shut off. If you live close by, you need to MOVE AWAY so there are no chance meetings. Achieving no contact is the first vital step and you can't do step two until step one is done.

Quote:
He knows she is pregnant (she told him first which hurt) but I plan on avoiding any contact with him in the future about anything and everything.


Does she agree to never be in contact with him again?

Quote:
I have not told any members of either of our families. just a few select friends that could support me without judging her.
We had been counseled by several people on it and we get "don't tell anyone who doesn't need to know as it will hurt your family more" and "do what God leads you to do" fww wants to follow the first plan obviously and I am trying to follow the policy of mutual agreement. In fww's case this may be the wise thing as she is EXTRAORDINARILY easily offended and I think would do more harm then good. We are debating on telling our parents but haven't decided yet.


Since this is her second affair, you can't afford to cut any corners and can't afford to skip this step. Exposure is not a matter for POJA, but something YOU should do on your own. If you have been counseled to hide the affair from your families, you are getting bad advice. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has specialized in recovery from infidelity for 40 years and he calls exposure "the most important first step towards recovery." You should tell all of your parents, close family and friends.

Adultery hurts your family. Lies hurt your family. Exposure of the affair will not harm your family. It will HELP your wife and give you some much needed support. Everyone should know, including any children over age 5.

There is absolutely no reason to keep this secret except that your wife might be embarrassed. She should be embarrassed so that is not a bad thing. But is a bad thing to hide the affair.

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
"The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is."


Quote:
Does the POJMA apply to exposure in this situation where the affair is definately over?


Nope!

Dr Harley gave this advice to a betrayed wife whose husbands affair had been over for SIX YEARS - the couple was arguing about exposure:

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley

The confession is a turning point, but it's only the beginning of a series of steps that must be taken to restore your trust to your marriage. It's not a good idea for the unfaithful spouse to expose their own affair, or even join the betrayed spouse when the affair is to be exposed. The betrayed spouse should do it themselves for the reasons you have already mentioned. There's not much hope without EPs in place.


In short, you need to just expose the affair on your own. Don't argue or debate about it. Just do it and get it done. Don't make this a completely unnecessary point of contention. Will she be offended? Maybe so. Not nearly as much as you and the OM's wife are and neither of you volunteered for this. Your wife did.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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p.s. since gyms are hotbeds for affairs, Dr Harley would tell you and your wife to stay out of them. You can set up your own home gym and work out together.

And I am sure I don't have to tell you that she has to stop flirting [a form of "courting"] and not have opposite sex friendships. Almost every affair on this forum, thousands going back 15 years started as an opposite sex friendship.

Married women who flirt are viewed as EASY and AVAILABLE by other men.

Your wife has very poor boundaries around men and until that changes your marriage will never be safe.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: klovelistener

When I was in college she went to dinner with her boss and on the way home he started touching her. she let him and they wound up having oral sex together. He was just moving to another state so there was no further contact. She told me a few months later (that was in 2003). She said she was flattered that a man as "great" as him would want her.


This is so sad and pitiful. Your wife views such a grave insult as "flattery." She doesn't understand that any man who comes onto a married woman has just spit in her face. It is the highest insult because he is telling her he believes she is cheap and easy.

She needs to understand this because I don't think she really gets how badly she has been insulted. She has been treated like an unpaid wh*re by these men.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: klovelistener
She is learning through our counseler how to be content even when things aren't rainbows and lollypops.


That is the opposite of what we achieve here. Dr Harley does not teach that one should settle in marriage, but that one should make the marriage a place of rainbows and lollipops. It should become her greatest source of happiness. Marriage Builders would teach her not to just be content, because that state is a big reason why she has looked outside of her marriage for happiness. Marriage Builders would make her marriage such a happy place that she wouldn't need to look outside for happiness.

And we would teach her to remove the conditions that led to her affair. The first one being her membership at a gym.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Dude, let's clear up one very important thing, okay?

You said earlier something to the effect of "We're not sure who the father is," of the pregnancy. You should stop being blind to the facts. While you might not be "sure" (as in refusing to accept the blatant reality) WW is DAMN sure:

Then she found out she was pregnant He knows she is pregnant (she told him first which hurt).. he recommended an abortion, he wasn't ready to be a father...Some of the things that she had said or ways she acted made me just a bit suspicious so I asked her if there was any chance the baby wasn't mine. She looked me in the eyes and said no,

Whether or not you can put this behind you and move forward is a question only you have the ability to answer. It is, however, highly recommended by the MB principles that the BS have ALL the facts, and make decisions about his/her life choices (including any recovered marital future) fully informed of the true state of his marriage.

In the long term, denial does not work.

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As to the child it could be either of ours since we were both having sex with her at the time. I am prepared for either outcome and am willing to raise the child as my own either way. We will be doing a DNA test regardless.
I understand what everyone is saying about exposure and I will consider it. Me making decisions without her or contrary to her desires was a huge Lb for her and was one of the things that was hurting our relationship.


Me: 34 BH
Her: 31 FWW
DD (6)
DS (3)
D-day 2/2/13

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She agrees with no contact and we have taken precautions to avoid chance encounters. Phone numbers will be changed this week as well as emails.


Me: 34 BH
Her: 31 FWW
DD (6)
DS (3)
D-day 2/2/13

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Originally Posted By: klovelistener

I understand what everyone is saying about exposure and I will consider it. Me making decisions without her or contrary to her desires was a huge Lb for her and was one of the things that was hurting our relationship.


The benefits of exposure FAR, FAR outweigh any potential anger over exposure, though. Anger over exposure is a result of the FOG. And when her fog wears off she will thank you for exposure.

You can't use "lovebusters" as an excuse to skip this vital step. In marriages where the affairs are kept secret, we often see repeat affairs. You are already dealing with a serial cheater and just can't afford to skip this step, my friend.

You do understand that Dr Harley says this about exposure: "In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery."

and "Many betrayed spouses are afraid that exposure will drive the unfaithful spouse further away. While it's true that unfaithful spouses usually feel betrayed and angry when their affair is exposed, I regard that reaction as being part of the fog that most addicts experience. When the fog has finally lifted, and the source of addiction no longer has control, the value of exposure is usually conceded by the addict himself."


Quote:
Me making decisions without her or contrary to her desires was a huge Lb for her


You are mis-using the POJA to harm your marriage by using it as an excuse to avoid exposure. Dr Harley is very clear that the POJA does not apply to affairs or abuse.

I know it is scary to see your wife angry. But you can't use that as an excuse to avoid taking necessary steps to recover your marriage if you are serious about this. Keep in mind you are on AFFAIR #2 and if you cut corners again, will likely see AFFAIR #3.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: klovelistener
She agrees with no contact and we have taken precautions to avoid chance encounters. Phone numbers will be changed this week as well as emails.


Taking precautions is a good first step, along with changing phone #s and email addresses. Her agreement to no contact is absolutely meaningless. This is why it is so important to actually change the conditions that led to the affair AND remove any opportunities for contact.

What about the gym? Do you have a plan to quit the gym? A serial cheater should never set foot in a gym.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote:
While it's true that unfaithful spouses usually feel betrayed and angry when their affair is exposed, I regard that reaction as being part of the fog that most addicts experience. When the fog has finally lifted, and the source of addiction no longer has control, the value of exposure is usually conceded by the addict himself."


This makes sense but she is not in the fog. I will definately think on it.

Yes she has quit the gym, that was a must especially since she could have a chance meeting there


Me: 34 BH
Her: 31 FWW
DD (6)
DS (3)
D-day 2/2/13

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Originally Posted By: klovelistener
Quote:
While it's true that unfaithful spouses usually feel betrayed and angry when their affair is exposed, I regard that reaction as being part of the fog that most addicts experience. When the fog has finally lifted, and the source of addiction no longer has control, the value of exposure is usually conceded by the addict himself."


This makes sense but she is not in the fog. I will definately think on it.


If she is not in the fog, then you shouldn't fear her anger because anger is a RESULT of the fog. An unfoggy, recovered wayward won't get mad about exposure.

I seriously doubt that she is not in the fog, but that is beside the point. The point is that it should be done regardless of how "angry" you anticipate she will be. A recovered, unfoggy wayward is not angry about exposure. It is a very necessary step if you are serious about saving your marriage.

What exactly are your concerns in regards to exposure?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: klovelistener


Yes she has quit the gym, that was a must especially since she could have a chance meeting there


That is great!! hurray

Working out together is an EXCELLENT undivided attention activity. Have you considered setting up a home gym and working out together?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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She would be angry over the embarressment (which she deserves). I am trying to avoid my family alienating her.


Me: 34 BH
Her: 31 FWW
DD (6)
DS (3)
D-day 2/2/13

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In exposure do you tell friends that live out of state?


Me: 34 BH
Her: 31 FWW
DD (6)
DS (3)
D-day 2/2/13

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Originally Posted By: klovelistener
She would be angry over the embarressment (which she deserves). I am trying to avoid my family alienating her.


It is ok if she is embarrassed, so don't let that concern you. She will get over it. And you should tell your family. You need their support. Yes, they will be upset with your wife for hurting you, but your wife can earn back their respect if she tries very hard. This doesn't have to alienate her if she puts in the effort and assures them she will never do this again.

That will be a much needed experience for your wife. You shouldn't deprive her of that lesson.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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