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Originally Posted By: honey7


she works for his best friend, they met thru him.



Didn't they use this "friends" house as a hoe house to carry on the affair?

What about leisure time? Are you spending all your leisure time together? What about opposite sex friendships? What does he do for a living? How close does this hoe live to you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Put spyware on his phone. Have you checked for a secret phone?

When are you going to complete exposure? Especially on OW's side?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: honey7


i'm still not sure about the proof - at this time, he swears there's no contact, there's nothing on the phone records and i track him on gps all day long, i see every stop and for how long. how else could he prove it?


You do understand him swearing there is no contact is meaningless, right? If he is having an affair, he will swear there is no contact because he doesn't want to get caught.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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MelodyLane,

The WH has NOT written an NC letter but claims to have broken contact.

Honey,

Please ask your WH to write the NC letter that you approve and send. There is absolutely no reason why he hasn't done this yet, a goodbye phone call just does not cut it. There are good examples of NC letters on here I am sure someone can post a link for you.

As far as everything else goes I agree with the vets, you need to expose the affair including targeting the OW boyfriend and family.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent

[from SAA, page 58]


OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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He and OW are both attorneys.

Honey7: You might want to check to see if he has a secret cellphone stashed somewhere...like in his car.


Married 1976
Me:BS
Him:FWS
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Didn't they use this "friends" house as a hoe house to carry on the affair?

no, they were getting hotel rooms. the best friend is obsessed with her and my WH didn't want him to know about them. i read a text from the best friend after he walked in on them at his house - WH was staying there when we separated in Dec.

What about leisure time? Are you spending all your leisure time together? What about opposite sex friendships? What does he do for a living? How close does this hoe live to you?

we are spending almost all leisure time together. honestly, i'm not sure if i'm supposed to be spending time with my girlfriends or not. i've read conflicting things on this site. i'm hesitant to go out for dinner with friends, i'm trying to just meet for coffee and such. he also does small things with friends here and there - right now he was watching the soccer game at a pub and i can see him there on gps.

we've both always felt that opposite sex friendships were inappropriate, his affair started as a friendship that he kept hidden.

he's an attorney in private practice.

i've been told that she lives a couple cities (about 20 min) away, but there may be a chance that she lives in the same city (with her boyfriend).


Put spyware on his phone. Have you checked for a secret phone?
i'm trying to figure out which one is best, i'll have limited access to the phone, any ideas?

When are you going to complete exposure? Especially on OW's side? not sure. i'll have some prep to do, plus i may have to do plan b prep simultaneously since he may leave. being a sahm with extremely little money right now complicates things.

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You do understand him swearing there is no contact is meaningless, right? If he is having an affair, he will swear there is no contact because he doesn't want to get caught.

yes, exactly. i wouldn't believe him, that's why i'm not sure how he could prove it otherwise?

You might want to check to see if he has a secret cellphone stashed somewhere...like in his car.

i drive the car several times a week, i've gone thru every nook and cranny

so a NC letter would be after exposure as part of the list of conditions? is there a list of conditions on the site somewhere?

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When you ask him to write a NC and he doesn't or tries to avoid it. Then that is a huge red flag. redflag


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Honey

As he is so familiar with MB and the principals just ask him today for the NC letter, there is no reason to delay.


BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months

Divorced

Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.

If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.

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Originally Posted By: honey7

is there a list of conditions on the site somewhere?

The Aftermath
When things die down somewhat, it is important that you present a PLAN to your WS for recovery. The next step is to lead your marriage out of the ditch.

First step is to DEMAND your spouse end the affair.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley
Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."


Ask him/her to send a no contact letter to the OP that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA]

Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you wont stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Unless you use this program to create a much better marriage than the one you had before the affair, you are likely looking at repeat affairs. So don't even think you can get away with sweeping the affair under the rug and going back to what you had before. What you had before led to the affair!


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: honey7


we are spending almost all leisure time together. honestly, i'm not sure if i'm supposed to be spending time with my girlfriends or not. i've read conflicting things on this site. i'm hesitant to go out for dinner with friends, i'm trying to just meet for coffee and such. he also does small things with friends here and there - right now he was watching the soccer game at a pub and i can see him there on gps.


I would spend ALL your leisure time together. You can't afford to be squandering this time on friends. Its ok to have lunch or coffee with a girlfriend, but your time together is too valuable to waste it on friends.

Quote:
i've been told that she lives a couple cities (about 20 min) away, but there may be a chance that she lives in the same city (with her boyfriend).


So how can you know if he seeing her or not if you don't know where she lives? I would find out where she lives when you call her boyfriend and expose the affair. I would also expose to her family members.

Quote:
Put spyware on his phone. Have you checked for a secret phone?
i'm trying to figure out which one is best, i'll have limited access to the phone, any ideas?


eblaster and flexispy are good spyware programs. Eblaster is at spectorsoft.com and flexispy is flexispy.com.

Quote:
When are you going to complete exposure? Especially on OW's side? not sure. i'll have some prep to do, plus i may have to do plan b prep simultaneously since he may leave. being a sahm with extremely little money right now complicates things.


You don't need to worry about Plan B right this second. If he has ended contact like you say, that won't be an issue. He won't leave over exposure if he is serious about recovering your marriage. Anger over exposure is a sign of the fog. It is doubtful he will leave. That would surprise me.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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thank you all so much for your help smile

As he is so familiar with MB and the principals just ask him today for the NC letter, there is no reason to delay

i just did, he's fine with it. we're going to work on it this weekend.


I would spend ALL your leisure time together. You can't afford to be squandering this time on friends. Its ok to have lunch or coffee with a girlfriend, but your time together is too valuable to waste it on friends.

great, that's what i've been thinking.

i'm still scared about telling the BF - he's just a boyfriend, he's a macho type guy - he'll leave her and my WH will feel sorry for her. if he's fence sitting, he'll go to her.

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Originally Posted By: honey7


i'm still scared about telling the BF - he's just a boyfriend, he's a macho type guy - he'll leave her and my WH will feel sorry for her. if he's fence sitting, he'll go to her.


Yes, that is where you should start. This exposure will show you how serious your husband is about recovery. If he is serious, he won't mind at all. Your husband can't recover unless his victim is told what he did to him.

There is something VERY WRONG here if your husband objects to this exposure. It can only mean he is protecting the affair, so don't worry about exposure.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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1. how long married? Are you married?

2. any children? how old?

3. is this your first marriage? His?

4. any affairs in either of your pasts?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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1. how long married? Are you married? married for 11 yrs, together for 17

2. any children? how old? 2 kids, ages 6 + 8

3. is this your first marriage? His? first marriage for both of us - we've been together since we were 22

4. any affairs in either of your pasts? no known affairs. i can be pretty jealous and possessive and not once in all this time have i snooped around, i never expected this of him.

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the only way of contacting the boyfriend is thru facebook and she knows that i found out who her boyfriend is thru facebook and she closed her friends list. i'm worried that she may have changed his email address on his facebook account because she knows i was planning to tell him. i guess i should also contact his family then because they would definitely tell him? i can offer him evidence, but in the event that wants to see it, what should i show him? i have to be careful what i show because then my WH will know about the programs i'm using to pull info from his phone. i have deleted text messages and naked pictures of her. i also have a receipt for airline tickets (my WH knows that). i guess i'll go with that and the cell phone records.

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Originally Posted By: honey7


2. any children? how old? 2 kids, ages 6 + 8

3. is this your first marriage? His? first marriage for both of us - we've been together since we were 22

4. any affairs in either of your pasts? no known affairs. i can be pretty jealous and possessive and not once in all this time have i snooped around, i never expected this of him.


Thanks for answering, honey. Hopefully you can see now that not snooping is not healthy for either of you. If you had snooped sooner, you might have been able to kill the affair before it started. Snooping helps you hold him accountable. It is not a lack of trust that ruins marriages, but a lack of boundaries.

Dr Harley would also suggest that you tell your children about your husbands affair.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

Quote:
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.



Quote:
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

Quote:
2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

Quote:
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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You said at the beginning of your thread that you had a brief affair in December of last year. Have you been exposed to friends and family? What are your H's thoughts on this?


Me (WS) Husband (BS)
DS - 15
DD -10
My D-day - 11/12/11

Today Me (BS) H (WS)
D-Day #2 01/14/12
I don't want to just survive my affair, I want to recover from it!
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Originally Posted By: honey7

4. any affairs in either of your pasts? no known affairs. i can be pretty jealous and possessive and not once in all this time have i snooped around, i never expected this of him.

honey,

Didn't you say you had an affair in Nov, 2012?

Originally Posted By: honey7
I had my own brief affair back in Nov 2012 (lasted 3 weeks) and that I completely understood what he was going through (the fantasy, thinking they're the "soulmate", believing you married the wrong person, etc). I totally got it!


And this.
Originally Posted By: honey7
- My AP was my personal trainer. I left my gym and have cut all contact with him. I'm completely out of my fog.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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