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And that is fine if you are not serious. It is your marriage, not mine. I am curious about why you are even posting?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Like I said, you are not serious.

feel free to mention to my wife about us both working during the day...

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And that is fine if you are not serious. It is your marriage, not mine. I am curious about why you are even posting?

Im sorry that our work commitments aren't great but that's not something we can fix by tomorrow or next week. Even if I found a job instantly id have to work 30 days notice. Plus the interview process. So would still be Christmas at best.

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I don't see how just because we arent both working during the day you say I might as well not bother posting? Are you serious?

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Learning2Grow
curious question for you guys:

I was just joking around with my wife about POJA and mentioned housework. Now to me there are certain things that NEED to be done and are mandatory to life. Things like housework surely shouldn't be POJA'd as lets be serious, NO ONE will ever be enthusiastic about cleaning floors and hanging laundry rotflmao

She said everything should be POJA'd. So she suggested I post here about it.

What exactly have you read so far? What books, articles? And how many hours of radio show have you listened to?
The mutual enthusiasm comes from agreeing on the solution to the problem, not the task itself. In my situation, my wife works full time and I am retired. I do nearly all the housework. When she isn't working, I want UA time with her. I don't want her having to spend the time doing housework. This was a POJA solution that I was enthusiastic about. That doesn't mean I like doing housework.


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Originally Posted by Learning2Grow
I don't see how just because we arent both working during the day you say I might as well not bother posting? Are you serious?

That is not what I said. What I did say is that you are not very serious about this. And you are not. The work schedules are just one of many things I see.. Obviously it is an issue to be apart from 10 am to 2 am 5 days a week, but you don't see that as a problem. I see you as a spouse who is not very invested in his marriage and can't be bothered to do much more than occasionally post on a forum.

And yes, I AM serious. I don't believe you ARE. The people who are posting to you are more serious about your marriage than you are.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Learning2Grow
curious question for you guys:

I was just joking around with my wife about POJA and mentioned housework. Now to me there are certain things that NEED to be done and are mandatory to life. Things like housework surely shouldn't be POJA'd as lets be serious, NO ONE will ever be enthusiastic about cleaning floors and hanging laundry rotflmao

She said everything should be POJA'd. So she suggested I post here about it.

What exactly have you read so far? What books, articles? And how many hours of radio show have you listened to?

Did you see this post?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by mrEureka
The mutual enthusiasm comes from agreeing on the solution to the problem, not the task itself. In my situation, my wife works full time and I am retired. I do nearly all the housework. When she isn't working, I want UA time with her. I don't want her having to spend the time doing housework. This was a POJA solution that I was enthusiastic about. That doesn't mean I like doing housework.

Well yes the stay at home person technically inherits the job of homemaker and so id expect the housework, kids, possibly cooking to be taken over by them.

I think the word 'enthusiastic' is just totally wrong. I can see the concept but again for example, discussing housework chores or food shopping etc, I would 'agree' to do x,y,z because it 'makes sense' but it would never inspire enthusiasm.

definition of enthusiasm:

- having or showing great excitement and interest

- full of or characterized by enthusiasm; eager.

- filled with or motivated by enthusiasm; fanatical; keen

Thats why I agreed things for the good of our marriage, but if now I have to adhere to enthusiasm via POJA its getting messy.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What exactly have you read so far? What books, articles? And how many hours of radio show have you listened to?

Did you see this post?

sorry no I didnt. As you know we have been around in these forums for years now. We have read all the basic concepts together, done all the questionnaires many times. We have SAA which we mostly read but switched to HNHN which we have read but are about to re-read together. Ive listened to radio clips regarding to us but no others. My wife listens to more and has asked me to listen to others which I have with her.

Last edited by Learning2Grow; 08/19/13 07:59 AM.
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Anyway I'm continuing to do the housework as I believe its not able to be left to cause more stress on the household by living in a dirty environment.

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Originally Posted by Learning2Grow
Originally Posted by mrEureka
The mutual enthusiasm comes from agreeing on the solution to the problem, not the task itself. In my situation, my wife works full time and I am retired. I do nearly all the housework. When she isn't working, I want UA time with her. I don't want her having to spend the time doing housework. This was a POJA solution that I was enthusiastic about. That doesn't mean I like doing housework.

Well yes the stay at home person technically inherits the job of homemaker and so id expect the housework, kids, possibly cooking to be taken over by them.

I think the word 'enthusiastic' is just totally wrong. I can see the concept but again for example, discussing housework chores or food shopping etc, I would 'agree' to do x,y,z because it 'makes sense' but it would never inspire enthusiasm.

definition of enthusiasm:

- having or showing great excitement and interest

- full of or characterized by enthusiasm; eager.

- filled with or motivated by enthusiasm; fanatical; keen

Thats why I agreed things for the good of our marriage, but if now I have to adhere to enthusiasm via POJA its getting messy.
The point I am trying to make is that all tasks are resolvable via POJA. If my wife *expected* me to do housework, there would be hell to pay! I am the full-time caregiver to my adult autistic son. That is enough work for anybody.

The fact that you chose to express yourself like this speaks volumes about you.



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Originally Posted by Learning2Grow
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What exactly have you read so far? What books, articles? And how many hours of radio show have you listened to?

Did you see this post?

sorry no I didnt. As you know we have been around in these forums for years now. We have read all the basic concepts together, done all the questionnaires many times. We have SAA which we mostly read but switched to HNHN which we have read but are about to re-read together.

Yes, we know, and that's precisely what's so disappointing about your thread.

You are not clueless about MB - you have all the tools available to have a trememdonous marriage, many great posters who have been willing to help guide you, yet you keep on doing things that are so damaging throughout your R.....breaking EPs, outrageous lack of POJA (playing phone games despite your W's objection, refusing to walk with her in public), threatening to leave. Now we hear you are on opposite shifts.

Do you want help implementing MB or not? How long do you expect your W to keep trying to work this program all by herself?


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Originally Posted by Learning2Grow
Anyway I'm continuing to do the housework as I believe its not able to be left to cause more stress on the household by living in a dirty environment.

This is enthusiasm. You have a potential solution (you doing the housework), you have picked it, you are enthusiastic about it being solved this way. Now, you would prefer not to have the problem in the first place (housework magically disappear, for example smile ), and you aren't "jumping for joy" over the idea of doing housework, but you are enthusiastic about solving it this way, at least for now.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Learning2Grow
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What exactly have you read so far? What books, articles? And how many hours of radio show have you listened to?

Did you see this post?

sorry no I didnt. As you know we have been around in these forums for years now. We have read all the basic concepts together, done all the questionnaires many times. We have SAA which we mostly read but switched to HNHN which we have read but are about to re-read together. Ive listened to radio clips regarding to us but no others. My wife listens to more and has asked me to listen to others which I have with her.

I don't think you have invested enough in learning this program to learn how to use it to build a good marriage.

I would you start listening to the radio show on a daily basis. There is really no substitute for being taught by Dr. Harley himself.

It's on right now!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
p.s. I want to applaud you for deleting the game!

Ditto! It really makes your wife take notice when you start living by the POJA.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by mrEureka
The point I am trying to make is that all tasks are resolvable via POJA. If my wife *expected* me to do housework, there would be hell to pay! I am the full-time caregiver to my adult autistic son. That is enough work for anybody.

The fact that you chose to express yourself like this speaks volumes about you.

I dont see tone in your post was valid as I was clear to write that post generally and not aimed at you specifically. Even if you did want to make it personal I was obviously not aware of your sons disability which changes everything. But yes in general if one person works and one is the homemaker then the homemakers role would be the majority of the housework. That stands to reason baring any special circumstances. I dont my character should be judged on that staement....

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Originally Posted by markos
This is enthusiasm. You have a potential solution (you doing the housework), you have picked it, you are enthusiastic about it being solved this way. Now, you would prefer not to have the problem in the first place (housework magically disappear, for example smile ), and you aren't "jumping for joy" over the idea of doing housework, but you are enthusiastic about solving it this way, at least for now.

Think I'll read up on POJA as this enthusiasm thing is driving me crazy. There wasnt enthuasim in my post or decision. There was acceptance that a mandatory task must be carried out. Anyway ill read up and post back after. Thanks for posting

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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
p.s. I want to applaud you for deleting the game!

Ditto! It really makes your wife take notice when you start living by the POJA.

Thank you both for your words of encouragement

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Quote
There was acceptance that a mandatory task must be carried out.
What makes it "mandatory"?

There really isn't anything mandatory about housework. The thing is, most of us are not willing to live in filth, and therefore we are enthusiastic about cleaning it up.

Nothing mandatory about it. You and your wife don't have to clean if you are not enthusiastic about it.


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Originally Posted by Learning2Grow
Originally Posted by mrEureka
The point I am trying to make is that all tasks are resolvable via POJA. If my wife *expected* me to do housework, there would be hell to pay! I am the full-time caregiver to my adult autistic son. That is enough work for anybody.

The fact that you chose to express yourself like this speaks volumes about you.

I dont see tone in your post was valid as I was clear to write that post generally and not aimed at you specifically. Even if you did want to make it personal I was obviously not aware of your sons disability which changes everything. But yes in general if one person works and one is the homemaker then the homemakers role would be the majority of the housework. That stands to reason baring any special circumstances. I dont my character should be judged on that staement....
Why? I just returned the same generalizations at you that you tried on me. Like Igor said in "Young Frankenstein", "I thought you wanted to talk that way".

I think you know perfectly well how POJA is to be applied in this situation. So, instead of working so hard to resist it, why not put the effort into putting the principle to work? What I can pretty much guarantee you is that you are not going to be successful in poking holes in it. POJA is used to solve a large variety of problems by many couples in a large variety of situations. You want me to believe that you can't figure it out? It isn't that hard.

My wife and I just used POJA to figure out who should dig up the septic tank. It wasn't hard, knowing who is most qualified to do the physical part of the work. I am clearly the stronger of the two of us. We were both enthusiastic about the solution. We paid somebody else to do it!



me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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