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Hi Gerold,
i'm a little confused..,
why would you be upset with a woman who did not want to pay for a bottle of wine?
If financial support is a need for most women, then paying for wine on a date does not seem such a big deal.

Also I get this feeling that you are looking in the wrong direction, but it is a gut feeling so I can't explain it. You seem so hooked on intelligence and proving that you know intelligent women, am I wrong in this assumption?

There is just something off in the way you are handling all of this, that I can't put my finger on...

I'm not being funny, and I am sure I have something off in the way I deal with men too...which is why I am single...

Can anyone else here explain what I am picking up on??

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Originally Posted By: Livy

why would you be upset with a woman who did not want to pay for a bottle of wine?


I get the feeling she wanted him to pick up the extra bottle of wine for HER FRIENDS that she invited on a date!! She brought her friends on a date?? OH BOY!! crazy

That is not a good sign at all, gerold.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Melody you are so experienced with all this - I am sure you are right.

I would not take my friends on a date - not that I go on dates frown
I just find it a little strange when guys complain about spending money on dates - esp the price of a bottle of wine.

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Originally Posted By: Livy
Melody you are so experienced with all this - I am sure you are right.

I would not take my friends on a date - not that I go on dates frown
I just find it a little strange when guys complain about spending money on dates - esp the price of a bottle of wine.


I would NEVER pay for a date myself, so I agree with you! But how rude of her to bring her friends!! I could be wrong but I thought that was why she told him she would pay for the wine and is why he rightly expected it. I think she was extremely disrespectful. At least he found that out right away!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: Livy

why would you be upset with a woman who did not want to pay for a bottle of wine?


I get the feeling she wanted him to pick up the extra bottle of wine for HER FRIENDS that she invited on a date!! She brought her friends on a date?? OH BOY!! crazy

That is not a good sign at all, gerold.

This is what I perceived also.

Not a good sign to bring 2 others uninvited on a date. I'm surprised Gerold put up with it for 4 hours.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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well I agree, I would not take two of my friends on a date...
maybe this woman just wanted to get her friends some free wine..

I still think there is something off in Gerolds perception, I also think there is something off in mine too...

I am saying this because I want to crack the dating code.

I am a woman of similar age to Gerold, from Europe. I want to learn to be a buyer, and when I read some of Gerolds posts I would be turned off, why is this?

Gerold please do not be offended.

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Ofcourse I am not offended Livy. :-)
I am here to grow and learn.
I appreciate other people commenting
on my observations and mindset.

To answer your remark: Yes,
There could be something wrong with my perception.
I am still hurting from my ex, without a single doubt.
As a result I am really sensitive about honesty & openess.

I have absolutly no problem paying for a date.
What I do mind is when a date asks me to buy her something
and promises to pay me back and doesn't!!!

Maybe it's the whole freeloading thing and I should brush those things off;
the thing is: I promised to be emotionaly honest to myself in the future
and when somebody breaks their word after a couple of dates, it hurts me!

I dated girls who asked me to lend them some money while on a date,
even if I offered to pay for the whole thing.
But they insisted and wired me money back 2 or 3 weeks later,
leaving me a nice message on my bankaccount statement.
I like that!

I am going with my gut feeling on this one... NEXT!

My "project-friend" asked me to join her on a party tonite
as she is studying for her exams again and needs some relief.
I declined at first this morning, making a DJ on the expected age at that party!!!
(=frustration!!!)
but I apologised later today, made her dinner and told her I'll pick her up.
She said she needs some validation, admiration and an assertive guy to keep the drunk & horny fella's off.
check! :-)

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Yes I'm sure your gut feeling is right.
I am a bit puzzled about asking to borrow money on a date, why would anyone go on a date and ask their date to lend them money? baffled.
Anyway I am new to the principles here at MB - but they make sense to me.
I have always been thrown by this whole love and relationship thing!
Why/how people can fall in and out of love?
It all makes a bit more sense to me understanding these principles.

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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: Livy

why would you be upset with a woman who did not want to pay for a bottle of wine?


I get the feeling she wanted him to pick up the extra bottle of wine for HER FRIENDS that she invited on a date!! She brought her friends on a date?? OH BOY!! crazy

That is not a good sign at all, gerold.

This is what I perceived also.

Not a good sign to bring 2 others uninvited on a date. I'm surprised Gerold put up with it for 4 hours.



I might get smacked for this one, but...


Can we say friend zoned?


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted By: Livy

Also I get this feeling that you are looking in the wrong direction, but it is a gut feeling so I can't explain it. You seem so hooked on intelligence and proving that you know intelligent women, am I wrong in this assumption?

There is just something off in the way you are handling all of this, that I can't put my finger on...

Yes you made a really good observation, Lily! Thank you.
I am trying to compensate -I think- as it is the one compatibility I neglected in all three relationships; i meet a lot of intelligent people and I am keen to proove myself (and the internet) that they make mistakes too... This is me, trying to forgive myself or something.

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I don't quite understand what you mean.
Could you explain a little more?

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Originally Posted By: Livy
I don't quite understand what you mean.
Could you explain a little more?


I read all MY posts in this thread and you are right! I am trying to prove the world I am dating intelligent people.
This is me compensating for something that was wrong in my previous relationships: we were not intellectually compatible.
So I try to date intelligent people to compensate.

I found out other things about myself that have changed in 11 months: I no longer shut my mouth if someone hurts my feelings... I speak up! Some people in my direct surroundings cannot deal with this situation AT ALL! My brother thinks I am going insane: he is not used that I speak out if he says or does something that hurt my feelings. He starts to immaturely "act-out" if I respectfully say how I feel.

Two of my best friends invited my ex and me to the same party...I left. I wrote a note and my friends wrote back they no longer want to respect my boundary of me not wanting any contact with my ex. They think I should get over my hurt and face the fact my ex will be around on future get-togethers... This has upset me a lot last week and I think I will let them know this week, I will no longer be attending get-togethers as it hurts me too much seeing her. Other friends are concerned this strategy of maintaining my boundary will leave me with little friends... So am I.

Today I drove "psychology girl" to the airport. She was really anxious on getting her flight so I proposed to drive her. On the way my GPS lost power on the highway and something happened: I honestly expressed my feelings: "I am really anxious on getting lost now". She responded by saying she was getting really nervous as she missed so many flights in the past. We stopped at a gasstation and bought a new recharger; we got there with plenty of time left... I helped her check in and accompanied her to the security gate. There was no stress at all.

What COULD have been an extremely stressed out situation - I remember some drama at airports in previous relationships - was avoided by expressing feelings.
There was no "soothing", "reassuring", "blaming", "wreckless driving" or anything needed... "this is how we feel and why, now face the problem and negotiate how to deal with it."

That was breath takingly refreshing.

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Originally Posted By: geroldmodel

I read all MY posts in this thread and you are right! I am trying to prove the world I am dating intelligent people.
This is me compensating for something that was wrong in my previous relationships: we were not intellectually compatible.
So I try to date intelligent people to compensate.


I certainly have not read all the posts, but I have to say that from what I have read, I get a distinctly different impression than what you stated above.

My perception, perhaps wrong, is that you are mostly meeting women who have issues - drugs, addictions, unresolved issues, or partiers. I am not seeing you looking for or meeting the "girl-next-door" types - normal, together, professional.

I see you constantly report about how great a party was, how long into the night you danced, how many (married) women were making a move on you, how great the hookup was. And I am not one to judge, perhaps that is the type of guy you are - but that certainly does not seem to me to be the best way to meet quality women.

I think that's what Livy was referring to earlier, when she said that she is getting the sense that you are looking in the wrong direction - I think so too.

So I am surprised to see you say that you are looking for intelligent women first and foremost. I dunno, maybe I am missing something, but I think you are on the wrong track, given your past reports. What do you think?

AGG


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Yes AGG, I am going out and I visit all sorts of parties and I meet all sorts of women. Most of them have issues or are in a relationship. (Yes, I am a judging type and sticking to my guns) All true. However, that does not mean I am not looking for the girl-next-door...

Where are they?
Am I fishing in the wrong pool? Perhaps.
But as far as I can see, with the exception of datingsites, I do not really see an alternative really.

I am not meeting any women at work (I am in IT)
the women I do meet at work, have either issues or are foreigners on a visit.

I have dated about 10? people this year.
If I am to meet 37 dates without going to parties, I am going to be a bachelor for a very long time. :-)

What do you suggest?

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Yes do tell where these women are

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Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Yes do tell where these women are


I don't know where they are, but I can tell you where they most likely are not: at all-night rave parties. I could be wrong of course, but my money is on girls-next-door being elsewhere.

Quote:
Where are they?
Am I fishing in the wrong pool? Perhaps.
But as far as I can see, with the exception of datingsites, I do not really see an alternative really.


Well, from my experience, I also did not come across eligible women in my daily life, so I did in fact turn to dating sites. And I found there the woman I married.

So why are you saying "with the exception of dating sites"? I think that these days, there are plenty of quality people on these sites, much more so than before, or than you'll find at wild parties.

AGG


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Originally Posted By: AGoodGuy

I don't know where they are, but I can tell you where they most likely are not: at all-night rave parties. I could be wrong of course, but my money is on girls-next-door being elsewhere.

Ah, now I get it!
AGG, I am not looking for the girls-next-door on rave dancefloors!
I think there is some cultural thing going on here. Most parties here last until morning.
Housewarmings, BBQ's, even the 10 day city streetfestival goes on until 9AM. :-)
I do bookings and some volunteering at raves and backstage I get to meet an occacional girl-next-door helping out the organiser.

As for internetdating... I might be biased.
I had 1 internet date: A woman who had a very cryptic personal description in the form of a poem.
As I was intriged I found the poem and send her a message with the rest of the poem in it.

We met up and she said she was on that dating site for a full year and not a single person had the idea to find the poem online. She said I was the first to pass the test.

We dated 2 times and I gave up after it became apparent she did not want to work for the rest of her life as she just came back from working 12 years in China.

She deleted her dating account after our first date as she was really disappointed with the male IQ on that datingsite...

I believed her and did not give the datingsite another look.

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I am getting better in reading people's needs and feeling a lot more confident on dates. Had a couple of dates with a 30+ IT manager I met at the city festival this summer.
This women knows what she wants and has been sizing me up since the first date.

We had our 4th date this weekend and I am starting to notice this woman can be very dominant & controlling. Although she is quite anxious and nervous in the beginning of a date, once the ice has melted she appears to become VERY confident. There is hardly any negotiation! This woman has a strange hold over me and it's freaking me out.

Psychology girl said she is falling in love with me and wants to take a step back as I do not want to date her exclusivly yet. She hates the idea I am dating other people.
She meets some of my needs perfectly, but I am not in love. She is one of the few dates that actually was mature enough to be honest about her feelings and knows how to negotiate respectfully. Although she is leaving the door open, I hate to see her go.

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Originally Posted By: geroldmodel

She is one of the few dates that actually was mature enough to be honest about her feelings and knows how to negotiate respectfully. Although she is leaving the door open, I hate to see her go.



You know that anyone can learn to negotiate respectfully don't you? Actually once you have learned how to be honest and open, nothing else will do. Most of us were not fortunate enough to see that process as children in our own families but it is really just such a win win strategy that anyone with sense will use it once they see how it works.


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Now remarried, thank you MB
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Originally Posted By: living_well

You know that anyone can learn to negotiate respectfully don't you? Actually once you have learned how to be honest and open, nothing else will do. Most of us were not fortunate enough to see that process as children in our own families but it is really just such a win win strategy that anyone with sense will use it once they see how it works.

Hey Living_well, thanks for the reply.
I was lucky to be raised by my parents to be honest & open, except when it came to emotional honesty:
Somehow they taught me to walk on eggshells when expressing my own NEGATIVE feelings. Probably because I was the eldest and had to set an example for my brothers...

When I read the definition of "honesty & openess" on MB last year, I saw that "emotional honesty" was missing in my behaviour. So that was the first thing I changed!

I seriously doubt I would be capable (or willing) to teach a 30+ date how to be honest and open now.
I am done fixing people.

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