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skyrim #2759835 10/13/13 03:48 PM
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Throwing him under the bus doesn't address your bullying behavior.

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Originally Posted By: Enlightened_Ex

You don't get to decide how long it is ok for him to be shut down.

After all, you don't let him decide that what you call gawking is just the normal catching your eye.

Get it. Just as he cannot define for you what constitutes a glance vs gawking, you don't get to define for him how long he shuts down due to feeling it's unwise or unsafe to continue in a line of conversation.

I get it, but when he is the only person that I know and my only form of communication, what the heck am I suppose to do? Just sit here and hurt. Like I said he has done this from the beginning of our relationship, even before I would have AO's or bully.

And he can gawk and look all he wants, that was not the issue I had with it. My issue is the feelings he is having when doing so when he is a married man.

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You may have a point. But answer this, is your anger helping or hurting the situation?
Well I am sure it is not helping, but what am I suppose to do with the feelings inside me. I literally feel that my heart will explode at times from all of the pain, then I turn the pain into anger. So what do I do with the pain?

Quote:
You want him to try MB, but you are not yet putting it into practice. Or you are using it when it suits you, but if you don't get your way, out the door it goes and the bullying replaces it.
No I am not using it when it suits me, I am still trying to learn everything, so yes there will be mistakes. I am not sure what constitutes bulling? Yes I have AO's DJ's, but the only time I guess I would consider me bulling him is trying to get him to talk to me.

How is what he is doing any better or different?


Quote:
No one is asking you to be comfortable when he does things like gawking. So why do you expect him to be comfortable?


No I am not comfortable knowing that my husband, who is suppose to love and protect me, is looking at other women and getting some type of pleasure from it. But I can not compare a conversation that maybe become heated to the same level. I am sure he is not comfortable, but as you and others have stated if someone does not break the cycle then it will never end. Guess I just have not been strong enough to do that yet.

Quote:
So what you are saying is that it's ok for you to retreat, but when he does, it's not right?

That's how this is coming across.

Instead of judging him for being shut down, what are you doing to learn what it takes for him to be enthusiastic about resuming the conversation?

I am saying that if I am suppose to protect him from my anger and such, then right now I am not strong enough to do so. So therefore I need to leave. I have been in the state of withdrawal for a very long time. Sometimes I am not sure why I have stayed this long. Guess I was hoping for a miracle. I have asked him and I am reading all the material that I have, so I am not sure what else I can do to learn what it takes if he is not willing to share.


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Originally Posted By: Enlightened_Ex
Throwing him under the bus doesn't address your bullying behavior.


If we are not both willing to be honest on here in order to get appropriated help and feed back then what is the point?

Plus I have felt from the first time you have commented on my thread that you have been very judgmental and harsh toward me.

I am not sure why, but I have found that to be more detrimental that helpful. Maybe it is just the way you state things, I am just not sure.

Last edited by skyrim; 10/13/13 04:15 PM.

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skyrim #2759842 10/13/13 04:25 PM
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I just don't sugar coat or use kid gloves.

I admit, I don't have much tolerance for double standards.

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Originally Posted By: Enlightened_Ex
I just don't sugar coat or use kid gloves.

I admit, I don't have much tolerance for double standards.


And what makes you think it is me that is being the one using the double standards? Just because I am willing to share on here. I came here first. I was looking for something after 12 freaking years of nothing. No communication, no needs being met, and finding out that while I am in one country and my husband is in another he is contacting women via facebook talking about making plans to get to see them. So don't even pretend to know what I am dealing with right now, and please don't pass judgement on me.


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skyrim #2759845 10/13/13 05:06 PM
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I am telling you what you sound like from this perspective.

Your husband is shutting down. You said it. He says it.

What you've done for the past 12 years isn't working. Your instincts, your judgements and your behaviors have not made it better in those 12 years.

What I see is someone fighting against those who are giving you a third party view of what they see.

If your perspective, talents and skills are working for you, then by all means keep on doing what you've been doing.

You can put anyone you don't agree with on ignore and continue on your path.

Or you can ask why folks shut down.

People, for the most part, act in what they believe is their best interest. Right or wrong, your husband has decided it is in his best interest to keep his mouth shut and wait until the perceived storm blows over.

It may not be in the best interest of your marriage. But then that just means there are two who are willing to act in their own self interests, often at the expense of their spouse.

Anger is one of the most destructive forces in a relationship. If your relationship has any chance of survival, all anger must be replaced with respectful requests and negotiation.

I see you complain about things he does, but then give yourself a pass when you are doing the same or very similar things.

I never pretend to know how you feel. But I do know what it is like to be betrayed. Anger and frustration are NOT traits that a spouse, wayward or otherwise typically find attractive.

If you've really had 12 years of nothing as you put it. Then what are you trying to save? I don't ask that in a flippant fashion. I really want to know.

Is it really 12 years of nothing? Or is that an exaggeration?

If nothing, then why save it. If it's an exaggeration, it's possible this is part of the problem as to why you are stuck.

Imagine hearing that from his side. For 12 years, she claims I've done nothing. If that's the case, it's hopeless, why try.

He's shut down. Is it possible that the above scenario, or one like it is playing out?

I'm just asking you to look at your behaviors and see if any of them could be sabotaging any possible recovery.

Or, if it's not exaggeration, then examine why you want to save your marriage give the stated lack of need meeting.

I'm just a mirror, imperfectly reflecting what I see. I may be wrong. I certainly don't have all the details. And hopefully, my reflections are helpful or at least get you thinking about possible changes you can make in your approach.

I don't know what it's like to be the unfaithful spouse. But I can share from my vast experience and mistakes I made in hopes that others will not make the same errors as I did.

skyrim #2759846 10/13/13 05:06 PM
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skyrim, I don't have a lot of free time to spend on this forum. I have a full time career and a marriage. I have spent enormous time on this thread telling you how to turn this around. You have followed NONE of my advice.

I can help you take action, but I won't come here and deal with your anger. You want to be entitled to anger? Fine, that is your prerogative. It is my prerogative to not waste my time on a no win situation.

I don't mind posting to someone who is serious about working this program, but I don't have any extra time for someone who is not serious. Good luck.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


skyrim #2759849 10/13/13 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: skyrim
[quote]
Why are you trying to bully him into talking?


I have only resulted to bulling as you would call it, when is has been shut down for hours or days.

[quote]

That does not make it OK to bully someone.

If he never talked to you again, it would stll not be OK to get ugly.


A very sad attitude.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

indiegirl #2759854 10/13/13 07:01 PM
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One thing I've noticed is that when you get called in something you're doing wron, you make your husband look worse and worse. Essentially it appears you want to make all the issues in the marriage his fault.

Have you asked him why he shuts down? There's something about the way you're responding to him that makes him feel uncomfortable in talking to you. When I used to shut down, it's because my wife would get snappy and when I'd tell her something bothered me, she'd turn it around on me. In other words, it turned into what I was doing wrong and a total disregard for my viewpoint


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Skyrim,


One thing you need to understand, is that posters here who are experienced in helping others learn Marriage Builders aren't going to spend a lot of time joining the chorus berating your husband.

That would be an exercise in futility.

So, if you continue along with the "But, but, but.... MY HUSBAND does x...!" People will bow out 1-by-1.

People will help your husband with HIS behaviors on HIS thread.

YOUR thread is going to be targeted to YOUR behaviors.

Also; your 'tude about the "bullying" is strange... as people are referring to YOUR admission to "trying to bully him into talking."

You stated your behavior, you have been advised to knock it off. So... KNOCK IT OFF. Your husband's Love Busting behaviors no more justify your Love Busting behaviors, than your Love Busting behaviors justify his.

Are you prepared to start using Marriage Builders to keep YOUR side of the street clean?


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
skyrim #2759883 10/14/13 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: skyrim
Am I not entitled to my feelings? I understand that I should not bully him, but I do not understand how I am not entitled to get angry, or should I say feel angry, hurt and totally disrespected?
The feeling is frustration, and the reaction to frustration is anger. So, you are entitled to be frustrated, but anger is your choice in how you are reacting to the frustration. No, you are not entitled to be angry.


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mrEureka #2759884 10/14/13 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: mrEureka
Originally Posted By: skyrim
Am I not entitled to my feelings? I understand that I should not bully him, but I do not understand how I am not entitled to get angry, or should I say feel angry, hurt and totally disrespected?
The feeling is frustration, and the reaction to frustration is anger. So, you are entitled to be frustrated, but anger is your choice in how you are reacting to the frustration. No, you are not entitled to be angry.


Correct me if I'm wrong but anger is perfectly fine. Our feelings whatever they may be are okay. It's how we react to our anger and frustrations that is the issue


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Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
Originally Posted By: mrEureka
Originally Posted By: skyrim
Am I not entitled to my feelings? I understand that I should not bully him, but I do not understand how I am not entitled to get angry, or should I say feel angry, hurt and totally disrespected?
The feeling is frustration, and the reaction to frustration is anger. So, you are entitled to be frustrated, but anger is your choice in how you are reacting to the frustration. No, you are not entitled to be angry.


Correct me if I'm wrong but anger is perfectly fine. Our feelings whatever they may be are okay. It's how we react to our anger and frustrations that is the issue
I'm happy to correct you. You are wrong! smile

The MB model says that anger is a reaction to frustration.


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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
skyrim, I don't have a lot of free time to spend on this forum. I have a full time career and a marriage. I have spent enormous time on this thread telling you how to turn this around. You have followed NONE of my advice.


I disagree, I have been trying everything you have asked of me and I am still trying. Just because I am not perfect and things happen over night, or that I still revert at times does not mean that I am not trying.

Quote:

I can help you take action, but I won't come here and deal with your anger. You want to be entitled to anger? Fine, that is your prerogative. It is my prerogative to not waste my time on a no win situation.


I have said nothing toward you that I feel was in anger. Yes I am angry at the way Enlighten_Ex has been so crude in his response to me. I felt that this was a safe place to come and bare my soul. While at the same time getting help for my marriage. Not to be felt like I am being attacked.

Quote:

I don't mind posting to someone who is serious about working this program, but I don't have any extra time for someone who is not serious. Good luck.


That is fine if that is the way you feel, and from my perspective in you saying that I am not taking this serious is a disrespectful judgment on your part. But thank you for all of your advice.


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Originally Posted By: indiegirl
[quote=skyrim]
Quote:

Why are you trying to bully him into talking?


I have only resulted to bulling as you would call it, when is has been shut down for hours or days.

[quote]

That does not make it OK to bully someone.


You are right if he never spoke again it would not be ok for me to do that, at the same time if he never talked again what am I suppose to be doing during that time? And that is a very serious question.


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Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
One thing I've noticed is that when you get called in something you're doing wron, you make your husband look worse and worse. Essentially it appears you want to make all the issues in the marriage his fault.


I guess I don't see it that way as far as trying to make him look worse. I just want everyone to have as clear of a picture as possible.

I really don't feel that all the issues are his fault. I know that I have mine and I don't feel that I have been afraid to admit it. I know I am not perfect and I know I came into our marriage with baggage from my past.

Quote:

Have you asked him why he shuts down?


I have asked, and just asked again today. He has stated in the past that he shuts down because he does not know what to do or say, and this is even before any angry outburts or DJ or anything has happen. He would just shut down. He has also stated that it could be because he has to think about things to much, and analyze every possible out come or reaction I may have before he tells me something.

Today he state that it is because he fears what my response will be.


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skyrim #2759901 10/14/13 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: skyrim
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
I don't mind posting to someone who is serious about working this program, but I don't have any extra time for someone who is not serious. Good luck.


That is fine if that is the way you feel, and from my perspective in you saying that I am not taking this serious is a disrespectful judgment on your part. But thank you for all of your advice.
I don't know that this is a DJ, but for the sake of argument, let's say it is. So, what? DJs are lovebusters that we need to avoid with those people we want to remain in love with, but what about others? What about DJs that are true? While it might we nice to avoid all DJs, it is hardly required. In the context of giving you advice, what would you prefer, the truth or just nice words?


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Originally Posted By: HoldHerHand
Skyrim,


One thing you need to understand, is that posters here who are experienced in helping others learn Marriage Builders aren't going to spend a lot of time joining the chorus berating your husband.

That would be an exercise in futility.


I am not asking for that.

Quote:

So, if you continue along with the "But, but, but.... MY HUSBAND does x...!" People will bow out 1-by-1.


Just thought I was being honest about things and having questions. Maybe I need to look at how I am asking them.


Quote:

Also; your 'tude about the "bullying" is strange... as people are referring to YOUR admission to "trying to bully him into talking."

You stated your behavior, you have been advised to knock it off. So... KNOCK IT OFF. Your husband's Love Busting behaviors no more justify your Love Busting behaviors, than your Love Busting behaviors justify his.

Are you prepared to start using Marriage Builders to keep YOUR side of the street clean?


See that is where I guess I am stated things wrong or something. Lately I have been trying to not bully(push) him into talking. I said that I typically only resulted to that after so long. And I have been stopping conversation on my own as soon as I realize I have completely lost control and my taker has taken over. I will even leave the room and go find something to do until I feel that I can not be snappy.


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mrEureka #2759903 10/14/13 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: mrEureka
The feeling is frustration, and the reaction to frustration is anger. So, you are entitled to be frustrated, but anger is your choice in how you are reacting to the frustration.


Guess that makes sense put that way. However it is not just frustration that I feel, I am hurt as well, but I do see how anger is a choice, an that I guess that has been a choice I have made for years, even before we met.


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skyrim #2759905 10/14/13 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: skyrim
Originally Posted By: indiegirl
[quote=skyrim]
Quote:

Why are you trying to bully him into talking?


I have only resulted to bulling as you would call it, when is has been shut down for hours or days.

[quote]


That does not make it OK to bully someone.


You are right if he never spoke again it would not be ok for me to do that, at the same time if he never talked again what am I suppose to be doing during that time? And that is a very serious question.



Yes it is!

And we are dying to get you to that answer.

There is a good technique and a bad technique for dealing with it.

The bad technoque is anger. The bad technique makes everything worse. Each time you do it, things get a little worse.

We need you to stop doing the bad technique FIRST.

Before you can use the good one.

Can we get an agreement from you that you should stop using AOs right now so you can progress?

You will also have to accept that your husband will be a little gunshy for a while until he learns to trust you have control and won't use AOs no matter what.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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