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Indiegirl,

I am willing to do everything to make sure my husband sees me again.

I am having a very hard time thinking that he will choose another, I want nothing more than for our family to be together.

Do all spouses that end up cheating run off??? I never left, I begged for forgiveness, I don't want to leave. I only want my husband.

And I know everyone is asking why on earth I keep straying??? Why do I need to have conversation with others??? I don't know!!! I can't stand this pain.

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MelodyLane,

The checklist you provided, are those the EP's?

I have deleted my google account. I never had any numbers or spoke to anyone on the phone. I deleted any potential contacts that could possibly be flaring the past. I don't have FB account and haven't had it since 2009.

What do I do when my husband is refusing to part-take in EP's? He doesn't want to hear me. Do I just follow the steps independently? Do I just write everything down so he can read later?

I know I am the betraying spouse and I know that I am most likely least liked on here, but please help me get this right.

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annar, it is important to understand that he has every right to get a divorce if he chooses. I would respect that choice if I were you. If he decides he wants to recover, we can help you with that. In the meantime, I would be respectful to his desire to get out of the marriage..


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Annar,

You asked about remarriage after divorce. My wife and I divorced and remarried. Our marriage has never been better. But it was a long process and the circumstances were different.

You are a serial cheater, and you have deeply wounded your husband. I'm not sure its possible for you to realize how much. One has to experience to really understand it.

Your husband may decide to work with you on the marriage, but truthfully, you are a very high risk case. You are addicted to the excitement and the high of having an affair, and you are not governed by guilt or morality. You feel these things, but they don't play a role in stopping you from infidelity. That is why everyone here is saying the ONLY thing that will affair proof your marriage are extraordinary precautions, the ones listed by ML.

Right now your husband is hurt and disgusted with you. He has no desire to "babysit" you because you have hurt him and betrayed him multiple times. But if after his emotions settle and decides to give your marriage a chance, he will have to participate in the "babysitting." These things are necessary to affair proof your marriage, even if you are in a healthy, happy marriage with no history of infidelity.

You need to watch this video:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

You also need to read all the content in the "Start Here First" link: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2695379#Post2695379

Finally, read Dr. Harley's book, Surviving an Affair, and ask your husband if he will read it with you.

By the way, the lies and trickle truthing you have done only deepen the wounds. Trust me when I say that the lies hurt as much as the affair itself, because they exacerbate the betrayal. You should have told him the truth that you looked up your ex boyfriend. Jeez.

Give your husband time to process this and make his decision. In the meantime, get to reading the sources I've given you. Regardless of the outcome, you have a lot to learn and this is where your education starts.

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Justthe3ofus,

Thank you for your input. Your first sentence has given me a tiny light of hope. Although I know the light is so distant, I may never reach it.

If what I am feeling at the moment doesn't come close to what my husband is feeling, I see no point of living.

I have watched the video you posted. It was probably the worst 30 minutes of my life. I cried out of anger at myself for what I have created. I know you think I'm a serial cheater, but to be honest, I don' want anything to do with it. I don't want that label.

I will be changing my phone number tomorrow to avoid potential flares. I have deleted everything else that was listed in the video to avoid contact with the OP. I was not romantically involved, I did however, enjoy the conversation, something I should have been doing with my husband.

I will go on to reading your other recommendations. Please know that as horrible of a person as I may sound, I am doing everything I can to earn my husband's love and trust.

Thank you for your help.

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What are your thoughts on bringing up our past experiences that we shared with happiness?? Does it bring more pain to my husband to remind him of what we had and how wonderful our life was together? I don't want to push him away even further at this point and I don't want to make him feel as though he is at fault. I do, however, want him to know that I want our relationship back to how it used to be.

What are some ways I should be talking to him? Should I not talk at all?? Please help me act the right way around him at this moment.

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I would not talk to him about the relationship or affairs at all right now. It only comes across as being v selfish and self-absorbed.

Let him initiate things.

In the meantime, REMAIN CALM. Do your best to make the home environment pleasant and low-key. If he doesn't want to engage with you, do NOT hassle him. Let him be.

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Originally Posted By: annar

What are some ways I should be talking to him? Should I not talk at all?? Please help me act the right way around him at this moment.


When I discovered my XH's misdeeds, I wanted most of all for him to tell me that he loved me and was deeply ashamed. I wanted him to say that he would divorce me giving me everything in the hope that one day I would consider rebuilding the relationship.

Instead he fought me all the way. The divorce took 6 years. Don't make that mistake.


3 adult children
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kerala,

Thank you. I did not bring up any affairs at all. I have been cooking and cleaning and staying out of the way.

The let him be part is killing me. I am really scared.

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living_well,

I have never stopped telling my husband how much I love him even though he has not responded to me the same way for years. I am deeply ashamed and disgusted with myself. I know there is a price to pay.

I have told him that I will do whatever his wishes are, even if it means divorce. I want to be able to rebuild our relationship whether it is now or after the decision he makes.

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Originally Posted By: annar
living_well,
I love him even though he has not responded to me the same way for years. I am deeply ashamed and disgusted with myself. I know there is a price to pay.


Affairs often happen because a spouses needs are not being met. That is the premise of Dr. Harley's book His Needs, Her Needs: Affair Proofing Your Marriage.

It sound like other men were feeding your love bank in areas your husband was not. You cannot let that ever happen again, but he must also take steps that he is meeting your emotional needs for conversation, affection, and admiration if he wants your marriage to work out. If he learns to do this, you will be less inclined to look for them elsewhere.

You both need to be educated. Whether or not he decides is up to him. But you can do your part by learning Dr. Harley's concepts for a successful and happy marriage.

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I just want to make it clear that affairs never happen unless one's lovebank is open to others. Affairs happen because of poor boundaries. We have many, many examples of affairs that occurred in marriages where the BS was doing a good job of meeting her WS' needs. Mine is one such example. My husband gave me high ratings in EVERY area. The reason he had an affair: his lovebank was open to any and all.

This is why Dr Harley recommends the book Surviving an Affair for folks who have had affairs and NOT HNHN, because he makes it VERY CLEAR that affairs are due to poor boundaries on the part of the WS. In HNHN, he writes to those who have NOT HAD an affair yet and tries to scare spouses into meeting each others needs so they won't be tempted to have an affair.

So while unmet needs may make an affair more TEMPTING, the CAUSE of an affair is poor boundaries.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: Melodylane on 10/04/07
Hi Dr. Harley, there is some confusion about your comment on pg 75 of Surviving an Affair and I wondered if you could clarify for my understanding:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pg 75

How could I expect Jon to avoid burning his bridges after Sue had behaved so thoughtlessly? I offered him four reasons to try a plan that would give his marriage a chance to recover.

1. JOHN WAS PARTLY RESPOSIBLE FOR SUE'S AFFAIR. John knew, deep down inside, that his career choices had a great deal to do with Sue's affair. His work schedule prevented him from meeting her emotional needs, and it made her vulnerable to Greg's attention.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



However, we have been commonly taught, and have heard you mention on the radio show that the WS is always responsible for the affair, but often both the BS and WS are responsible for the state of the marriage that led to the affair? Is it possible for the BS for be responsible for the affair, a choice she/he never made?

Could you please clarify for our understanding? Thanks!



Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
MelodyLane: Let me add something to what I have already written to you. I hope I'm not being too redundant.

You will hear Joyce and I repeat, "there are reasons but no excuses." One of the reasons for an affair is that emotional needs are not being adequately met in marriage, which makes an affair that meets those needs more tempting. But the same thing can be said of some who rob banks. They may be out of work, need money to pay the rent, ask for a loan but are refused by the bank, which makes robbing it more tempting. One reason for the robbery is that the bank refused the loan, but it wasn't the bank's fault that it was robbed. On hindsight, a bank might have helped the robber get the help he needed through social services, but the bank is under no obligation to do so, even though they advertise that it is a "caring bank."

An affair is different from robbing banks in that a couple have promised to be more caring than banks. But the principle is the same. The lack of care by one spouse does not excuse harmful behavior by the other spouse. Even when one spouse absolutely refuses to be affectionate, or to make love, or to talk intimately, or to join in recreational activities with the other spouse, it gives them no right to have those needs met by someone else of the opposite sex in an affair. They have the right to separate until the other spouse meets those needs, or even divorce when it becomes obvious that there will be absolutely no cooperation (there are many who strongly disagree with me on that point). But an affair is so cruel and so painful that nothing any one spouse does (including having an affair themselves) can justify the suffering that an affair causes.

Making a disgraceful act more tempting by someone is no excuse for that person committing the disgraceful act. Besides, in most marriages, there are times when emotional needs are not being met for reasons beyond anyone's control. That's why I recommend extraordinary precautions to help spouses avoid an affair. They are to not allow anyone of the opposite sex to meet their need for affection, or intimate conversation, or recreational companionship, or sexual fulfillment. When those needs are met, they deposit so many love units that you are likely to fall in love with that person, and make you hurt your spouse in the worst way possible. I hope that explanation helps.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939731#Post1939731


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
I just want to make it clear that affairs never happen unless one's lovebank is open to others. Affairs happen because of poor boundaries. We have many, many examples of affairs that occurred in marriages where the BS was doing a good job of meeting her WS' needs. Mine is one such example. My husband gave me high ratings in EVERY area. The reason he had an affair: his lovebank was open to any and all.

This is why Dr Harley recommends the book Surviving an Affair for folks who have had affairs and NOT HNHN, because he makes it VERY CLEAR that affairs are due to poor boundaries on the part of the WS. In HNHN, he writes to those who have NOT HAD an affair yet and tries to scare spouses into meeting each others needs so they won't be tempted to have an affair.

So while unmet needs may make an affair more TEMPTING, the CAUSE of an affair is poor boundaries.


My recommendation was for Annar to read Surviving an Affair, not HNHN. However, the underlying premise of HNHN's is that when needs are not being met, affairs happen. Annar wrote something that indicates that her husband has not met her needs. Annar needs to be aware she needs to work with her husband so that they can learn what each other's needs are, and meet them. Of course, that is a step to be taken down the road. First they must recover and following the plan outlined by Dr. Harley in Surviving an Affair.

Certainly Annar needs to put up barriers around men. Historically, she has not only let them down, she has opened the draw bridge to let the barbarians within the city walls. That lack of self control is a big concern moving forward.

If her husband were to agree to try and work with her to recover their marriage, Annar would have to put in place all extraordinary precautions, starting with no opposite sex friendships or time spent alone with the opposite sex, and she and her husband would have to learn to better meet each other's needs.

Oh, and the computer has to go.

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annar,

You are getting great advice already. I will emphasize a few things, having been the adulterous spouse in my marriage.

*Actions, actions, actions. You can bemoan your choices and wallow all you like - believe me, I understand - but all that broadcasts is your continued self-centeredness. It is your ACTIONS that will speak the most. At a minimum that requires you to be humble, mature, and selfless in how you move forward.

*Work, work, work. Stop flailing about in your own emotional turmoil, and stop expecting everyone here to do the work for you. If you are to have any chance of redeeming yourself and hopefully restoring your marriage, YOU have to be prepared to work harder - harder than you have worked for anything else - and YOU have to be in it for the long haul. No relying on somebody else to carry the load for your mistakes. At a minimum that requires you to read all of the Basic Concepts (here: Basic Concepts ) and start THINKING and PLANNING how you are going to climb out of the bed you have made for yourself.

I do not mean to be overly harsh. However, the reality of our actions is unavoidable. The past is done - it's up to you to determine how you proceed from here.


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Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
I just want to make it clear that affairs never happen unless one's lovebank is open to others. Affairs happen because of poor boundaries. We have many, many examples of affairs that occurred in marriages where the BS was doing a good job of meeting her WS' needs. Mine is one such example. My husband gave me high ratings in EVERY area. The reason he had an affair: his lovebank was open to any and all.

This is why Dr Harley recommends the book Surviving an Affair for folks who have had affairs and NOT HNHN, because he makes it VERY CLEAR that affairs are due to poor boundaries on the part of the WS. In HNHN, he writes to those who have NOT HAD an affair yet and tries to scare spouses into meeting each others needs so they won't be tempted to have an affair.

So while unmet needs may make an affair more TEMPTING, the CAUSE of an affair is poor boundaries.


My recommendation was for Annar to read Surviving an Affair, not HNHN. However, the underlying premise of HNHN's is that when needs are not being met, affairs happen. Annar wrote something that indicates that her husband has not met her needs. Annar needs to be aware she needs to work with her husband so that they can learn what each other's needs are, and meet them. Of course, that is a step to be taken down the road. First they must recover and following the plan outlined by Dr. Harley in Surviving an Affair.

Certainly Annar needs to put up barriers around men. Historically, she has not only let them down, she has opened the draw bridge to let the barbarians within the city walls. That lack of self control is a big concern moving forward.

If her husband were to agree to try and work with her to recover their marriage, Annar would have to put in place all extraordinary precautions, starting with no opposite sex friendships or time spent alone with the opposite sex, and she and her husband would have to learn to better meet each other's needs.


A marriage with unmet ENs creates a situation that can be tempting for an affair. But affairs do not happen in marriages, any marriage, in which the spouses have good boundaries. Just want to make sure this is understood by folks who are reading here. Spouses need to create a lifestyle that makes an affair impossible, or just about impossible.


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Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
[My recommendation was for Annar to read Surviving an Affair, not HNHN. However, the underlying premise of HNHN's is that when needs are not being met, affairs happen. Annar wrote something that indicates that her husband has not met her needs.


Yes, I understand that is the premise of HNHN, which is WHY Dr Harley does not recommend that book to waywards. They might wrongly come away with the impression that unmet needs were the CAUSE of the affair, when it was actually poor boundaries. Dr Harley makes it very clear to waywards that the affair would have never happened if they had appropriate boundaries. I try to be very careful in my verbiage to waywards, especially, because they are notorious for blaming their affair on their spouse. BH's have a tendency to want to do this too. When that happens, the WS loses focus on her poor boundaries and the problem does not get solved.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
I just want to make it clear that affairs never happen unless one's lovebank is open to others. Affairs happen because of poor boundaries. We have many, many examples of affairs that occurred in marriages where the BS was doing a good job of meeting her WS' needs. Mine is one such example. My husband gave me high ratings in EVERY area. The reason he had an affair: his lovebank was open to any and all.

This is why Dr Harley recommends the book Surviving an Affair for folks who have had affairs and NOT HNHN, because he makes it VERY CLEAR that affairs are due to poor boundaries on the part of the WS. In HNHN, he writes to those who have NOT HAD an affair yet and tries to scare spouses into meeting each others needs so they won't be tempted to have an affair.

So while unmet needs may make an affair more TEMPTING, the CAUSE of an affair is poor boundaries.

Exactly.

This is exactly why the Harleys will say, on the radio show, "it is our job to keep our love banks closed to the wrong individuals making LB deposits".


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
Affairs often happen because a spouses needs are not being met. That is the premise of Dr. Harley's book His Needs, Her Needs: Affair Proofing Your Marriage.

It sound like other men were feeding your love bank in areas your husband was not. You cannot let that ever happen again, but he must also take steps that he is meeting your emotional needs for conversation, affection, and admiration if he wants your marriage to work out. If he learns to do this, you will be less inclined to look for them elsewhere.

This is where you brought up HNHN and made it sound like a recommendation for her to read it. It is also where you laid the blamed for her repeated affairs at her H's door. The emphasis of this post was entirely that her H was to blame for her affairs, by not meeting her emotional needs. That is a staggering level of blame shifting.


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Originally Posted By: SugarCane
Originally Posted By: Justthe3ofus
Affairs often happen because a spouses needs are not being met. That is the premise of Dr. Harley's book His Needs, Her Needs: Affair Proofing Your Marriage.

It sound like other men were feeding your love bank in areas your husband was not. You cannot let that ever happen again, but he must also take steps that he is meeting your emotional needs for conversation, affection, and admiration if he wants your marriage to work out. If he learns to do this, you will be less inclined to look for them elsewhere.

This is where you brought up HNHN and made it sound like a recommendation for her to read it. It is also where you laid the blamed for her repeated affairs at her H's door. The emphasis of this post was entirely that her H was to blame for her affairs, by not meeting her emotional needs. That is a staggering level of blame shifting.


Staggering amount of blame shifting? I guess you missed the words: "Certainly Annar needs to put up barriers around men. Historically, she has not only let them down, she has opened the draw bridge to let the barbarians within the city walls. That lack of self control is a big concern moving forward. "

and

"You are a serial cheater, and you have deeply wounded your husband. I'm not sure its possible for you to realize how much. One has to experience to really understand it...Your husband may decide to work with you on the marriage, but truthfully, you are a very high risk case. You are addicted to the excitement and the high of having an affair, and you are not governed by guilt or morality. You feel these things, but they don't play a role in stopping you from infidelity. That is why everyone here is saying the ONLY thing that will affair proof your marriage are extraordinary precautions, the ones listed by ML."

You are cherry picking. I was very clear and adamant in EVERY post I sent to Annar that SHE is to blame for her choice to have an affair. In no way have I shifted the blame to her husband. Sue left John in SAA because he wasn't meeting her needs. This did not excuse Sue's horrendous choices, but John learned from this, as Annar's husband has to learn. Both sides have work to do. Annar must stop conversing with men and put up high barriers, and it sounds like her husband needs to learn to meet her needs, though annar has only made one hint that they aren't being met. Two things can be equally true. These ideas are not mutually exclusive, and they don't take Annar off the hook.

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