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Hello,

Newbie, of last resort I guess.
Short story. Married 16 years....not really...gay in ohio...so it doesnt count.
I have bent over backwards to accept step daughter who is nothing but manipulating that mom falls to over quilt. If they have a problem before you know it it is somehow my fault....mind you this is now a 27 year old mother..but if she wants something triangulation is in full spring.....I am the one to asked to leave my house, so she can stay there because she started a fight that mom couldnt handle. I say [censored] you ive done this for 15 years of my life...wife dont back me im out.....wife says ok, when you leavin? Just like that.
For 12 years I had an undiagnosed thyroid problem, so now, rewriting history, I was lazy.

If I bring up an issue that bothers me...my spouse just says me too.
I have been kicked out of my house 7 8 times in 16 yrs. I am not working until my medical is figured out, but kind dont care, just to get away.

If I dont do what thry want I am punished...take away money, take away family ties.
I never allowed my wife to be around my family as they are con people, but I am excpect to put upwith being called a [censored] by her ex, step daughter says she hates me and I will never be considered part of her family. I am nice if im buying her stuff and dont say anything if she steals meds for her junkie pedophile boyfriend....and mom lets it all go....but if I say something im attacking poor drunk driving murdering daughter...

Anywhere to go from here?

Thanks,
Sucks right now

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I am sorry for your pain, sucks. I really don't know what to tell you. Gay relationships are overwhelmingly less successful on the whole - much more abuse, much more infidelity, much more depression and suicide.

You can try to get Dr. Harley's books and try to apply his principles to your situation, but they are not tested on gay relationships. You can try contacting Dr. Harley directly on his radio show to see if he has any advice for your specific situation.

I would urge you to consider contacting a mental health professional for treatment for depression (and alcoholism? is her charge of drunkenness on your part true?). Take care of yourself. Do not destroy yourself trying to save something where the other partner is not willing - we see enough of that on straight marriages.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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In a straight relationship, Dr. Harley urges a woman not to spend more than 3 weeks trying to win a husband back from an affair, indicating that she will go through severe depression and possible other serious complications: post traumatic stress disorder, a compromised immune system, etc. I would assume he would recommend the same thing in a gay relationship - if I've got the details right you are female, and I would assume you are similarly vulnerable. I am concerned that if you are drinking you are probably already in bad shape.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: sucksrightnow
step daughter says she hates me and I will never be considered part of her family.


I would urge you to treat stepdaughter as an adult in this matter and respect her right to make her own decisions. My mother began an affair years ago and personally I do not accept her lover as a part of my family and I have to protect myself from both of them because I feel they are toxic to me. In my personal opinion children's opinions about their parents' subsequent mates should be respected.

If she is disrespectful and abusive to you I would refuse to spend time around her. That is what we would recommend in a typical heterosexual stepfamily situation - we don't recommend trying to force a child to accept someone they do not want to accept. This is even more true if the relationship began as an affair.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Hi sucksrightnow, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. I would strongly suggest you get Dr Harley's book, Defending Traditional Marriage where he addresses homosexual relationships. He has long experience in this field. I think you can download the book on kindle. The chapter you should read is Chapter 13. Here are some excerpts:


From Defending Traditional Marriage by Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr. (Chapter 13 Pgs. 209-218)...

Quote:
Same Sex Marriage a Threat?
Is There Anything Wrong with Gay and Lesbian Relationships
?


Over the past thirty-five years, I've watched as our government has done just about everything imaginable to lose the meaning of traditional marriage. We've allowed the enactment of laws that suggest traditional marriage has become outdated-that a permanent and sexually exclusive relationship of extraordinary care is no longer relevant. And all this has occurred with very little resistance despite devastating consequences to our families and to society in general. In each case these laws were passed with hardly a murmur of opposition.

That's why I was shocked to witness the energy behind grassroots efforts to resist same-sex marriage. Why now? I must say that I honestly didn't understand how this issue could create such a firestorm of protest when so little opposition had arisen against earlier changes in laws regarding marriage. But whatever the reason, I was energized by the realization that the controversy had awakened a sleeping giant. And legislators were listening.

In response to the public outcry, legislators at first simply enacted laws against same-sex marriage, hoping that would be enough to satisfy their constituents. But when judges challenged those laws as being unconstitutional, it became apparent that nothing short of a constitutional amendment against same-sex marriage would suffice. So states throughout America are now in the process of changing their constitutions. They want to define marriage in their state constitutions as a relationship between one man and one woman-just so judges will not tamper with it.

From my perspective, traditional marriage was already doomed by cultural bias against extraordinary care in marriage and by the passage of laws supporting infidelity and divorce. So what difference would it make if gays and lesbians "married", when marriage had already lost its traditional meaning? Based on the legal and cultural trends we've considered so far in this book, I had already predicted that traditional marriage would be reduced to a cultural footnote within the next few decades.

Consider the numbers. My best estimate of the percentage of marriages that suffer from infidelity is 60%. That's over half of all marriages. And the percentage of the marriages that end in divorce is about 45%-almost half. In contrast, where same-sex marriage or civil unions are encouraged, they account for just 0.5 percent of all marriages. That means only five couples out of a thousand actually choose that path-99.5% choose heterosexual marriage. How much influence could that half of one percent have on the rest of us?

So when I first became aware of the same-sex marriage issue, I didn't view it as a significant risk for traditional families. There were too few of them to have much impact. On the other hand, laws favoring infidelity and divorce have had, and continue to have a devastating effect on marriage. It seemed to me that all of that energy going into avoiding same-sex marriage was being directed at the wrong issue. Traditional marriage was already on the rocks-and not because of the same-sex marriage issue.

Nonetheless, the more I studied the arguments both for and against same-sex marriage, the more convinced I became that the fourth element of marriage-that it is between a man and a woman-does need to be supported. Let me explain why I'm now on board.




Quote:
Do Same-Sex Relationships Really Work?

Traditional marriage creates the most fulfilling relationship that is possible in life. When all four of its essential elements are in place, a husband and wife-and their children-are very happy. But when even one of those elements is lacking, trouble is on the horizon.

It's easy to see how the lack of extraordinary care, sexual exclusivity, or permanence would wreck a relationship. But is it all that important for the couple to be of opposite sexes?

Admittedly, there's not much published research on this topic. As with surveys that ask people about incidences of infidelity, it's difficult to obtain accurate data regarding fulfillment in same-sex relationships. In public surveys, most people will either deny ever having had an affair or, when they do admit it, will tend to downplay its disastrous consequences. Likewise, in surveys, same-sex couples who are fighting for the right to marry are likely to downplay frustration or dissatisfaction with their relationships.

But I've observed hundreds of same-sex couples in my own professional experience, and they have always stood out to me as being characteristically frustrated and depressed-many to the point of suicide. Same-sex relationships tend to be very brief and, especially for men, very unhealthy and violent. Granted, I've seen my share of unhealthy opposite-sex relationships as well. Yet on average, the same-sex relationships I've witnessed have been far more fragile.

For these and a host of other clinical reasons, I've discouraged my clients from maintaining their same-sex relationships. Instead I encourage them to either pull away from romantic relationships entirely for a time or to turn their attention to opposite-sex relationships. And, contrary to public perceptions, I've seen many clients successfully reorient themselves to opposite-sex relationships. Scores of my previously gay and lesbian clients are now happily married with children-all because they embraced a traditional definition of marriage that is marked by extraordinary care for life.

I have absolutely no doubt that same-sex relationships can be very romantic. And they can be characterized by the extraordinary care I've suggested. But even in the best of these relationships, when a couple has been honest with me, they have both admitted that they would have preferred feeling the same way toward someone of the opposite sex. The truth is, on average, opposite-sex relationships tend to be more stable and fulfilling. And that, in itself, is a good reason to promote traditional marriage rather than same-sex marriage. But there's also another, even more important reason: the welfare of our children.


Quote:
In addition to concerns about male and female parental influences, there is also another reason to be concerned about the ability of gay and lesbian couples to raise children most successfully: their relationships are notoriously unstable. As we've already discussed, problems they have trying to make their relationship fulfilling often cause them to jump from one relationship to another-in constant search of that perfect match. As a result, their relationships don't usually last very long. Only a very small percentage stay together long enough to raise a child to adulthood.

As I already mentioned, it's difficult to get accurate information about the stability of same-sex relationships from surveys. But the countries that have enacted laws granting same-sex marriage and civil unions have provided our first truly objective measures of the stability of same-sex marriages. For the first time, we have their divorce rates.

We are all aware how fragile opposite-sex marriages have been recently-divorce rates are incredibly high. In fact, one of the arguments used in support of same-sex marriage is that they can't be any worse than opposite-sex marriage. But the first solid evidence we have on that subject from Sweden is that same-sex marriages are worse-much worse.

In the Swedish study, the divorce rate of same-sex couples was compared with the divorce rate of opposite-sex couples over a similar period of time. It was found that same-sex male couples were 50 percent more likely to divorce, and same-sex female couples were 167 percent more likely to divorce than their opposite-sex counterparts. In other words, divorce statistics among same-sex couples reflected what I already knew-they are unstable whether or not they marry.

And these results are particularly impressive when you consider that same-sex couples in the most stable relationships would be the first to take advantage of the opportunity to marry. The early results from Sweden should give same-sex couples a temporary advantage over their opposite-sex counterparts when dvorce rates are compared. But this study indicates that the first group of same-sex couples to have married in Sweden are actually more likely to divorce than opposite-sex couples in the same culture. And I expect future studies to show the divorce rates of same-sex couples to be even higher.

If same-sex relationships are much less stable than opposite-sex relationships (as shown in the Swedish study), it should be ovbious that they're not the ideal place for chilren to be raised. Children neeed safety and stability, and same-sex relationships tend to provide exactly the opposite-danger and instability.




Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley
Can Gays and Lesbians Become Heterosexual?

I've heard most of the arguments used by gays and lesbians against the possibility of changing their sexual orientation. But I know from my counseling experience that it is possible. I've seen many who were same-sex oriented. It's possible for these individuals to be just as attracted to and just as much in love with someone of the opposite sex.

The reverse is also true. Those who are attracted to the opposite sex can become attracted to the same sex. In fact, most of us can become sexually attracted to almost anything or anyone under certain conditions. Eliminate attractive opposite-sex alternatives, and people find that they can respond sexually to whatever happens to be available.

That's why I'm so concerned about educational programs in schools that teach children that we are born to be either same-sex oriented or opposite-sex oriented. In those early years when children are very impressionable, they may be influenced to believe they are gay or lesbian simply because they experience some same-sex interest.

Quite frankly, most children at one time or another will find themselves sexually attracted to members of their own sex. If, as a result, they begin to focus their sexual attention on those of the same sex and create skills and neural pathways that make same-sex relationships far more satisfying than opposite-sex relationships, it's easy for them to think they were born to be gay. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. On the other hand, if they recognize such same-sex attraction as a natural response to certain circumstances but remain open to opposite-sex attractions that will also develop, they'll likely go on to pursue opposite-sex relationships that ultimately will provide the stability and fulfillment they're looking for.

Sexual orientation is not determined by birth but rather by choice. The truth is that we are all capable of expressing our sexuality in ways that we haven't even considered yet.

People can become sexually oriented to just about anyone or anything. And they can change that orientation if there is good reason to do so. In the case of gays and lesbians, a change to opposite-sex orientation can help them achieve more fulfilling relationships for themselves. And it provides the best opportunity to raise happy and successful children as well.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted By: sucksrightnow
Hello,

Newbie, of last resort I guess.
Short story. Married 16 years....not really...gay in ohio...so it doesnt count.
I have bent over backwards to accept step daughter who is nothing but manipulating that mom falls to over quilt. If they have a problem before you know it it is somehow my fault....mind you this is now a 27 year old mother..but if she wants something triangulation is in full spring.....I am the one to asked to leave my house, so she can stay there because she started a fight that mom couldnt handle. I say [censored] you ive done this for 15 years of my life...wife dont back me im out.....wife says ok, when you leavin? Just like that.
For 12 years I had an undiagnosed thyroid problem, so now, rewriting history, I was lazy.

If I bring up an issue that bothers me...my spouse just says me too.
I have been kicked out of my house 7 8 times in 16 yrs. I am not working until my medical is figured out, but kind dont care, just to get away.

If I dont do what thry want I am punished...take away money, take away family ties.
I never allowed my wife to be around my family as they are con people, but I am excpect to put upwith being called a [censored] by her ex, step daughter says she hates me and I will never be considered part of her family. I am nice if im buying her stuff and dont say anything if she steals meds for her junkie pedophile boyfriend....and mom lets it all go....but if I say something im attacking poor drunk driving murdering daughter...

Anywhere to go from here?

Thanks,
Sucks right now

How did you two meet? How did your relationship start?

Was she married to her children's father?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: markos
Gay relationships are overwhelmingly less successful on the whole - much more abuse, much more infidelity, much more depression and suicide.


My googling of the topic suggested just the opposite conclusion, so I wonder where you get this from?

AGG


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Originally Posted By: AGoodGuy
Originally Posted By: markos
Gay relationships are overwhelmingly less successful on the whole - much more abuse, much more infidelity, much more depression and suicide.


My googling of the topic suggested just the opposite conclusion, so I wonder where you get this from?

AGG

Dr. Harley.


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A reminder that the purpose of this forum is to help posters with Marriage Builders concepts. It is not to share personal philosophies. Please help this poster find solutions using Dr. Harley's concepts. Any questions, please email me.
Thanks, Denali


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Originally Posted By: Prisca
Originally Posted By: AGoodGuy
Originally Posted By: markos
Gay relationships are overwhelmingly less successful on the whole - much more abuse, much more infidelity, much more depression and suicide.


My googling of the topic suggested just the opposite conclusion, so I wonder where you get this from?

AGG

Dr. Harley.


As Melody posted, Dr Harley has extensive experience with homosexuals.

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Originally Posted By: geroldmodel

***EDIT***


never mind

AGG

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Originally Posted By: AGoodGuy
Originally Posted By: markos
Gay relationships are overwhelmingly less successful on the whole - much more abuse, much more infidelity, much more depression and suicide.


My googling of the topic suggested just the opposite conclusion, so I wonder where you get this from?

AGG



Here's a bullet list of mythes about homosexuality which can be found at Mythes PDF FILE. The entire website has a lot more good and in depth information and research including a free book for download if you really want to read up on the subject in a scientific manner.



Common Misconceptions About Homosexuality


1. Gays are 10% of the population.

Click to reveal..
No academic would agree. Numerous surveys in many countries show that (including bisexuals) gays are 2-3% of the population and lesbians are 1-2%.


2. Gay relationships are as stable and long-lasting as those of heterosexuals

Click to reveal..
Gay relationships last about 2 years for both gays and lesbians. In the divorce-prone USA a heterosexual couple has nearly an even chance of reaching their silver wedding anniversary (25y).


3. Gays are extremely promiscuous

Click to reveal..
Both gays and lesbians have 3-4 times as many partners as heterosexuals (comparison of medians). (Some people think this is extreme, some dont.)


4. Gays and lesbians are psychologically on par with heterosexuals
Click to reveal..

A good rule of thumb is that gays and lesbians have 3 times as many problems. All are prone to suicide attempts. Otherwise problems are mostly depression and other mood disorders for men and substance abuse problems for women, though there are many others.


5. Gay psychological problems are a result of societal discrimination and rejection
Click to reveal..

Very little evidence has been found for this. Whether in tolerant and accepting environments or in intolerant ones, the incidence and type of psychological problems remain about the same.


6. Gays are born that way
Click to reveal..

From six studies (2000-2011): if an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances that the co-twin has it too are only about 11% for men and 14% for women. This means that factors the twins have in common, such as genes and upbringing are mostly not responsible individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common factors predominate.


7. Gays say they have been this way ever since they can remember
Click to reveal..

For anyone, gay or straight, the mean age of first attraction is 10. For two thirds it is between the ages of 6 and 14. It is therefore highly atypical that same-sex attraction is an earliest memory. What are probably being remembered are early longings to belong to same sex gender groups, emanating from feelings of insecurity and difference.


8. Gays choose this lifestyle
Click to reveal..

There can be little informed, responsible choice involved if first attraction is about age 10. At that age no-one chooses life-time sexual orientation or lifestyle in any usual sense. Same sex attraction is discovered to exist in oneself rather than chosen.


9. Nobody knows how same sex attraction develops
Click to reveal..

Many same sex attracted people do, being able to trace it to early experiences of sexual abuse, reactions to breakdowns in family relationships, exclusion from same sex peer groups, porn. Others are not used to thinking about predisposing circumstances and have no idea how their homosexual orientation developed just as most heterosexuals have no idea how they became heterosexual. There are many paths, each relatively minor in the overall picture, but very important to those individuals whom they affect.


10. Sexual orientation cannot be changed
Click to reveal..

Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual. Sexual orientation is not set in concrete.


11. Gay teens need special counseling support in schools
Click to reveal..

In the West today, 98% of todays teens who believe they are homosexual at 16 will believe they are heterosexual one year later. It is irresponsible to offer gay affirmative counseling to teens on the grounds that the homosexual orientation is intrinsic and fixed.


12. Therapy producing change in sexual orientation is damaging
Click to reveal..

The best longitudinal study (backed up by many others) shows most people change to some extent - from slightly to 100%. Positive and negative effects are typical of outcomes for most other therapies. Re-orientation therapies also decrease depression, and substance abuse.


13. Private sexual acts do not affect society
Click to reveal..

Male gay sex is medically risky and surveys put the number of practising gay/bisexual men who are married at about 15%. Sexual activity (gay or straight) outside long-term, faithful, committed relationships is ultimately a cost to the state in numerous ways. (See 2)


N.E. Whitehead, Ph D., August 2012, www.mygenes.co.nz


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"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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The purpose of this forum is to discuss the application of MB principles, NOT to debate those principles. The moderation staff takes the responsibility of keeping the discussion on topic very seriously, and will not tolerate disruption. If you have an issue with moderation, email the administrator at JustUss2@aol.com. Do not complain on the open forum.


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Lesbian cultural critic Camille Paglia writes, Responsible scholarship is impossible when rational discourse is being policed by storm troopers . . . who have the absolutism of all fanatics. Paglia believes that it is a perfectly worthy aim to help gays function heterosexually, if they so wish. Paglia asks, Is gay identity so fragile that it cannot bear the thought that some people may not wish to be gay?


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"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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