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Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I just emailed my question/history to Joyce. I hope that I get a response. Thank you to all of you for suggesting that I do this...DJ
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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You know, I feel so overwhelmed that I really don't know where to start with a recovery plan. I've read so much from His Needs, Her Needs and Lovebusters that its just all in front of me overwhelming me to the point where I do nothing. Where is a good place to start?...DJ
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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Hi Prisca, I did read it. I also just ordered the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook. I'll be working this alone until I can get my wife to be receptive to it. I'm a structured person and I need something that I can look to as my plan to work. I'm no good just shooting from the hip so I'm hoping that this will help...DJ
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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Dr. Harley has the mind of an engineer, and this program is very structured. A lot of men like it because of that.
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Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook. Do you have Lovebusters and His Needs Her Needs to go along with that? Will your wife go out on a date with you? How much time alone are you getting together? Doing what? How is the job situation going? How have you been doing with Independant behavior?
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I do have both His Needs/Her Needs and Lovebusters and I've read both of them. I've read His Needs/Her Needs probably 3 times now. We do go on a weekly date and have our whole marriage but I wouldn't really say that I've put much thought into them. We go to dinner and then go shopping. We haven't done anything different in a very long time.
As far as our time together, we're mostly just attempting to talk through our troubles at night. My wife usually gets very upset and goes off to bed without me. I'm not sleeping in the bedroom now. Its been about 3 months of this.
My independent behavior is still there. I'm afraid that we don't really have a lot to talk about. I usually start to talk about work and that goes nowhere. Then we talk about the problems we are having and my wife has a lot of anger that needs to come out. Its very difficult to just talk about fun things because neither of us are very happy. I'm really beginning to understand how facing your problems brings you closer.
I was raised in a family where there was never any arguing, yelling, disagreements, discussion...my dad was the king and everyone did as he said. I don't remember my parents really ever fighting with each other. They divorced after about 30 years of marriage. My dad had an affair and left my mom.
My wife was raised in a family where there was always yelling, arguing, etc. but they got things out and dealt with them. I always thought that her home was so dysfunctional but I'm finding out that mine was really the dysfunctional home. My siblings and I never really learned how to deal with difficulty and face problems. We just learned to sweep them under the rug. My wife definitely learned to face things and deal with them. I just don't like the method that she uses to deal with things. Angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments. It does make it very hard for me...DJ
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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I just want to throw out another face to the negative feedback loop you are living in.
My husbands style is avoidance also. I'm all about cooperation. My attempts to 'bring him out' or to educate him about the things he does/did to upset or disappoint me lead no where or worse.
We each had our side that was played out. It only takes one person to tweak things just a little to either set the negative in motion or to finally change it into a positive for the benefit of the marriage unit.
If you decide to set in motion a new action step for the benefit of your marriage you have to "be all in" and show confidence even in the face of diversity. This is because if you make that one little tweak you will likely receive resistance and teased back into an old response. For you apparently its withdrawal, victimhood, confusion, and so on.
It helps to step back and observe yourselves carefully. Think about the one thing you could do differently next time your wife goes into a shaming diatribe. Its been suggested you complain. since you already know you tend to dread these encounters or freeze when the occur---have ready a script of words to use. In fact you could write them up and bring them here for us to review with you. Act these words out in a mirror over and over to help build your confidence levels.
Personally when I would make a straight forward non-emotive complaint to my husband he would shut down. I typically did not have a AO. He had been used to independent behavior and grew up in a family that reinforced this 'self made man' or 'strong silent type' approach to living. So addressing a complaint of mine could be interpreted as a threat to his IB.
But his shutting down reinforced feelings of hopelessness. Sometimes my husband would sense these feelings and inquire. But here is the twist: He'd inquire about how I was feeling if he sensed I was upset about something, I'd poor my heart out and he'd listen as a trusted doctor listens to his patients complaints. I would trust he cared but my complaints were dismissed if they were a threat to his IB. He'd withdrawal for these reasons. I consider this stealth emotional abuse. Look at yourself. Are you protecting your IB way of life?
These days I am less gullible. There is a time and a place to complain. When I am stirred up and he asks me 'what's wrong' I remind him this form of interaction seems to trigger poor outcomes. He is only recently learning to follow POJA. Its only safe for me to express how I feel with this agreement in force.
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Graceful, there are some things that I've done independently that have really hurt my wife. I was raised similar to your husband as well; to be independent. I now realize the difficulty that I've caused and the trust that I've eroded over the years. My wife has asked me to talk to her about the things that I've done. Being open about these things is part of the repentance process and I'm really struggling with what to say. We've talked about each "event" to the point where I understand what I've done and I've apologized profusely but she still needs me to talk about these things I've told her that I'm not really sure what more I can say and that never goes over well. Can you shed any insight into what it is that she's looking for from me? I really am stuck and not sure how to move forward.
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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I'm at work now but I write you back later.
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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I just emailed my question/history to Joyce. I hope that I get a response. Thank you to all of you for suggesting that I do this...DJ Have you heard back from the Harleys? They usually respond in a couple of days. If you haven't heard from them email them again and notify the MODS.
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I did get a response and was asked to consider being a caller. I've kind of been on the fence and not sure about it at this point so I haven't called to speak with Joyce or whoever takes those calls.
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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I did get a response and was asked to consider being a caller. I've kind of been on the fence and not sure about it at this point so I haven't called to speak with Joyce or whoever takes those calls. I've been on the show twice. Go ahead and give her a call back. You will speak to Joyce directly. You're not committed to anything at that point and she is very knowledgeable and friendly. You won't regret talking to Dr Harley directly. You don't even have to use your real name if you don't want to.
Me (42) Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11) DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
Recovered
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I did get a response and was asked to consider being a caller. I've kind of been on the fence and not sure about it at this point so I haven't called to speak with Joyce or whoever takes those calls. I've been on the show twice. Go ahead and give her a call back. You will speak to Joyce directly. You're not committed to anything at that point and she is very knowledgeable and friendly. You won't regret talking to Dr Harley directly. You don't even have to use your real name if you don't want to. I totally agree. The Harleys are so easy to talk to and you don't even realize you're on the radio. Would you like me to post some clips so you can hear how it sounds? Or just hit the Listen Now button.
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Brainhurts, I listen to the radio program every day so I'm very familiar with how they speak with callers. You're motivating me to make the call based on your comments...I'll think on this over the weekend and decide on Monday morning...thanks so much...DJ
I'm 64 yrs old; married to my wife for almost 40 yrs. Started having marriage troubles 10 years ago. I have lived independently for all of these years. 10 yrs ago wife announced she did not love me anymore. Wife has had angry outbursts our whole married life. I now understand that this is a symptom of my independent behavior. No infidelity from either of us. Active members of our church. 4 children, 1 son, 3 daughters. All out of the house now. Adjusting to the empty nest
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My independent behavior is still there. You can't really expect any improvement in your marriage until you stop this, and the other Love Busters. Then we talk about the problems we are having and my wife has a lot of anger that needs to come out. Anger doesn't need to "come out." That is a flawed therapeutic approach. Love Busters explains how to eliminate angry outbursts, as well as how to negotiate your problems without having angry outbursts. You might also look into getting the book He Wins, She Wins, which expands on the material in Love Busters to focus on negotiation. Of course, you should stop the independent behavior, because that will help her feelings immensely right there! She will have a lot less to be angry about. Most fights in marriage are about somebody's independent behavior. There are no excuses for angry outbursts, but there are reasons, and independent behavior is usually at the top of the list.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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The best approach to Independent Behavior is to knock it off.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I did get a response and was asked to consider being a caller. I've kind of been on the fence and not sure about it at this point so I haven't called to speak with Joyce or whoever takes those calls. I've been on the show twice. Go ahead and give her a call back. You will speak to Joyce directly. You're not committed to anything at that point and she is very knowledgeable and friendly. You won't regret talking to Dr Harley directly. You don't even have to use your real name if you don't want to. Tell her that BrainHurts, FightTheFight, and markos sent you.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Graceful, there are some things that I've done independently that have really hurt my wife. I was raised similar to your husband as well; to be independent. I now realize the difficulty that I've caused and the trust that I've eroded over the years. My wife has asked me to talk to her about the things that I've done. Being open about these things is part of the repentance process and I'm really struggling with what to say. We've talked about each "event" to the point where I understand what I've done and I've apologized profusely but she still needs me to talk about these things I've told her that I'm not really sure what more I can say and that never goes over well. Can you shed any insight into what it is that she's looking for from me? I really am stuck and not sure how to move forward. She is probably looking for your assurance that it will not happen again. If you spend months or years "working on" your independent behavior instead of actually stopping it, and if you don't hold to the principled approach that you want to avoid independent behavior entirely because it hurts your wife, she will never feel better and will probably want to talk about it forever. Here's some information from Dr. Harley about what to do about your wife's complaints: The correct way for your husband to respond to your complaint is to express an understanding of the problem, apologize for his role in the problem, and then introduce a proactive plan to solve the problem in the future. While discussion of that plan may include information as to what motivates him to do something that bothers you, it should be in the context of a solution, and not as a defense.
So with these tactics in mind, lets imagine a conflict, and how both of you should and shouldn't respond.
Your husband is watching TV and the children are running around the house screaming. He orders the children to play outside. You are upset that he didn't discuss the problem of the children's behavior with you before he made his pronouncement.
He violated the POJA by making a decision that didn't take your feelings into account. Most arguments in marriage are initiated by such independent behavior, and I'm certain that your arguments are no exception.
So you want to bring to his attention the fact that he did something that bothered you. From the Marriage Builders point of view, he made a Love Bank withdrawal.
The correct way for you to introduce the problem is to express it in cause-effect terms. He ordered the children out of the house without your enthusiastic agreement, and the effect of that order was for you to feel bad.
"Ordering the children out of the house made me feel bad," is probably the most straightforward way to express your complaint without being demanding, disrespectful or angry.
Once the problem is introduced, the ball is in your husband's court, and he should practice the correct response whenever you have a complaint. First, he should acknowledge your complaint, apologize for doing something that made you feel bad, and inquire as to why it would have made you feel bad.
"I can understand why you would be upset with me. I didn't ask you how you'd feel about my solution to the problem. Next time, I'll try to remember to ask you how you'd feel about a decision before I implement it. And I won't do anything until we agree enthusiastically."
If he can't honestly make that statement because he really can't understand why you would have been upset, he should continue to ask you sincere questions to help him come to that understanding. And that's where any defensive reaction on his part would ruin everything.
Granted, that response may seem unnatural to you right now, but with practice, it will become second nature to both of you. And this approach to the problems you face will communicate your care for each other.
So in summary, when your husband does something that bothers you, you should tell him that what he did bothered you, without being demanding, disrespectful or angry. Then, he should apologize, express his understanding of your reaction, and offer to avoid that mistake in the future.
What should your husband do the next time the children are running and screaming? He knows what he shouldn't do, order them out of the house, because that would bother you. But what should he do. That's a decision that both of you should make together. And since that exact situation is likely to repeat itself many times in the future, there's no time like the present to decide how to handle it.
In the beginning of this post, I said there were two general steps in marital problem-solving. The first is to introduce the problem without demands, disrespect, or anger. And the second is to address the problem with mutual respect and creativity, solving it with enthusiastic agreement.
I'm sure that you have a host of unsolved problems to address, and sometimes the sheer number of them can lead to feeling overwhelmed. But each problem that you tackle the right way is one less cause of Love Bank withdrawals. So when a complaint is made, after the expression of understanding and the apology, get right to work searching for a solution that will deal effectively with the problem when it comes up again in the future (The original is here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1967144#Post1967144)
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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