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Originally Posted By: xpbrain1


Another thing, after Saturday's child visitation time, he asked my DD to pass on the words that:"ask mommy don't yell at you, and ask her don't be mad at you". He's crazy now. probably he's trying to get back at me after i ask DD to tell him stop loving OW and stop breaking up the family.



I wold inform your attorney that your husband is "passing messages to me through the children."
Courts typically do not want children used as messengers.

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Thanks Jedi. I was the caller on the 4/10 MB Radio show and Dr. Harley agreed on the long-term Plan B, but suggested to do a short-term Plan A before I move. I did email later to let him know that I started Plan A since end of Nov last year and I prob. couldn't move for another 3 months. His response was it depends on my mental health and knowing I have a plan may help me put WHs bad behavior in perspective, and it may not affect me the same way. So that's why I mentioned Plan A.

Also thanks for the advice on his letting kid to pass on msg. I will document it.

Does Dark Plan B mean I should NOT even think about WH anymore? Shouldn't really put in any effort to ask friends of any influence to talk to WH? or any additional effort on exposure?

Thank you so much for all your help!


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
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Not using the children as pawns to relay information should also go for you too.

Quote:
after i ask DD to tell him stop loving OW and stop breaking up the family.
Unquote:

What your child was told to say is not wrong, but placing that directive is an unnecessary burden on any child.

Speak with them openly and let THEM know that if THEY have feelings against the affair and/or affair partner, then they SHOULD feel righteous about voicing their beliefs to the Wayward Dad. Don't put words in their mouths to deliver to him.

Some people and judges feel that is emotional abuse and an unfair burden to be put on the children.

How old is the child you are referring to though? (Oh, i just read the info in your signature. 4 years old.)

LTL

Last edited by LearnedTooLate; 04/22/14 03:12 PM.
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Originally Posted By: LearnedTooLate
Not using the children as pawns to relay information should also go for you too.

Quote:
after i ask DD to tell him stop loving OW and stop breaking up the family.
Unquote:

What your child was told to say is not wrong, but placing that directive is an unnecessary burden on any child.

Speak with them openly and let THEM know that if THEY have feelings against the affair and/or affair partner, then they SHOULD feel righteous about voicing their beliefs to the Wayward Dad. Don't put words in their mouths to deliver to him.

Some people and judges feel that is emotional abuse and an unfair burden to be put on the children.

How old is the child you are referring to though? (Oh, i just read the info in your signature. 4 years old.)

LTL


Thanks for your reply, LTL. I'm thinking about this too. I thought about having kids to hold the WS accountable, but guess i'm a bit desperate and should not put words in my DD's mouth. She's only 4 yr old, frankly she doesn't truly understand this, and there's no way she can express this by herself. I will stop letting her say those words.


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
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Originally Posted By: xpbrain1
Thanks Jedi. I was the caller on the 4/10 MB Radio show and Dr. Harley agreed on the long-term Plan B, but suggested to do a short-term Plan A before I move. I did email later to let him know that I started Plan A since end of Nov last year and I prob. couldn't move for another 3 months. His response was it depends on my mental health and knowing I have a plan may help me put WHs bad behavior in perspective, and it may not affect me the same way. So that's why I mentioned Plan A.

Also thanks for the advice on his letting kid to pass on msg. I will document it.

Does Dark Plan B mean I should NOT even think about WH anymore? Shouldn't really put in any effort to ask friends of any influence to talk to WH? or any additional effort on exposure?

Thank you so much for all your help!

A dark Plan B means never seeing or communicating with your WH as long as he won't commit to recovery and put boundaries and EPs in place to protect you and your marriage.

It is really tough to not "think" of your WH. Yes, I would ask your friends/family to not talk to you about your WH. Tell them you need to heal and every time you talk about him it takes you back to square one and that you're really trying to heal from his abuse/affair.

How is your self-care going?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts

A dark Plan B means never seeing or communicating with your WH as long as he won't commit to recovery and put boundaries and EPs in place to protect you and your marriage.

It is really tough to not "think" of your WH. Yes, I would ask your friends/family to not talk to you about your WH. Tell them you need to heal and every time you talk about him it takes you back to square one and that you're really trying to heal from his abuse/affair.

How is your self-care going?


Thanks, BH. I guess I'm not in dark plan b at all. I'm still trying different ways to pull him out of the fog, but seems he's brainwashed. Hopeless.

DS is teething and has been difficult after the vaccine shots. Not much self-care the past week, went to gym once. DD's birthday is coming up, will be busy smile.


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
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Hi Guys, I wrote to Dr. Harley again yesterday, and he kindly responded the following: Your husbands responses are typical of a spouse that is still having an affair. The fact that this woman is married and lives in another country makes it less likely that she will work out for him, but Im sure hes thinking that as soon as hes divorced, he will give it another go with her. Theres not much you can do until hes run out of options and realizes that his marriage with you is his only escape from continuing depression, but that may take quite a while, even beyond his divorce. Id continue with your plan to move to California.


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
Joined: Mar 2014
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shall i try to talk to OW see if she's willing to cut off all contact and change phone no. and etc? Still trying to find out OWH's contact info...

I feel like i need to do sth....


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,270
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Originally Posted By: xpbrain1
Hi Guys, I wrote to Dr. Harley again yesterday, and he kindly responded the following: Your husbands responses are typical of a spouse that is still having an affair. The fact that this woman is married and lives in another country makes it less likely that she will work out for him, but Im sure hes thinking that as soon as hes divorced, he will give it another go with her. Theres not much you can do until hes run out of options and realizes that his marriage with you is his only escape from continuing depression, but that may take quite a while, even beyond his divorce. Id continue with your plan to move to California.

Good job for following up with Dr. Harley again.

I would put alot of energy in finding OW's husband's information. Could you hire a PI to get the information?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts

Good job for following up with Dr. Harley again.

I would put alot of energy in finding OW's husband's information. Could you hire a PI to get the information?


Thanks BH. I tried to search online for PIs and other resources. Not that many available. I called a few, but turned out more like online scams. I won't give up though.


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,270
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Originally Posted By: xpbrain1
Originally Posted By: BrainHurts

Good job for following up with Dr. Harley again.

I would put alot of energy in finding OW's husband's information. Could you hire a PI to get the information?


Thanks BH. I tried to search online for PIs and other resources. Not that many available. I called a few, but turned out more like online scams. I won't give up though.

Bravo!!

I'm so surprised that she's not on any social networks in this day and age.

Did you try a background check online with her name? They usually will give their spouses name since it's a public record? What country is she in again?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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OW lives in China. the FB/twitter equivalent is Weibo/Wechat. ppl usu. don't use their real name to register account on weibo, and on wechat, they may use their real name, but if she doesn't add me as friend, i can not see her contacts or friends. There's no way any of their classmates will add me to their class group.

I searched her name online, nothing meaningful comes out. they don't really have background check service for public in China, and it's highly regulated now. I did approach several friends in Police Services, and none of them can/is willing to help me. they just don't wanna put their job at stake.

keep calling OW doesn't really make any sense, does it?


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,270
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Haven't you already spoken with the OW?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted By: BrainHurts
Haven't you already spoken with the OW?


i did. i thought about call OW at work again and demand her to terminate the relationship, and let her know i will never agree to divorce... but i guess she won't really listen to me.


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 296
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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: xpbrain1

"he wouldn't let me leave with the two kids" -- we lived in the current state for almost 3 years. But if i move to another state with my two kids without his consent, he has the right to file motion to court to force me to come back, which might jeopardize my custody. I very very much want to move back to the state with all the support from my friends. Looking for a job there now. Please help me on this!


That is not usually how it works.


You said that you are both emigrants from China, correct? What is your immigration status in the US? Is your eligibility to live in the US directly tied to your husband? Or are you a US citizen? Hold a visa? A green card?

These things do matter and could cause legal repercussions if you move out of the house, lock him out, file separation or file for a divorce. We need to know your current immigration status and if it is directly tied to your husband through his work visa, student visa, etc.

If your status in the US, ability to remain in the US legally, is directly connected to your husband's status, then you should contact Dr. Harley for advice. Let Dr. H know of your immigration status and the possibility for legal repercussions and ask his advice on how to proceed.

If you are a legal citizen of the US or hold a green card that is not dependent upon your marriage/husband, then disregard my post.

Last edited by FooledMeTwice; 04/23/14 11:51 PM.

D-Day 1 - May 4, 2012

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Originally Posted By: xpbrain1

keep calling OW doesn't really make any sense, does it?
\

No; But make sure she is posted on:
www.cheaterville.com
www.playerblock.com
www.liarscheatersrus.com

Also, if you know where she works I would write a letter to her supervisor.

EDIT: When you write to the supervisor, tell how they communicate and that "she tells him to divorce me and leave me; she tells him that she hates her country and wants to come to America; she complains that Chairman Mao was an old fool and that communism is evil"

Last edited by Jedi_Knight; 04/24/14 10:48 AM.
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Originally Posted By: FooledMeTwice


You said that you are both emigrants from China, correct? What is your immigration status in the US? Is your eligibility to live in the US directly tied to your husband? Or are you a US citizen? Hold a visa? A green card?

These things do matter and could cause legal repercussions if you move out of the house, lock him out, file separation or file for a divorce. We need to know your current immigration status and if it is directly tied to your husband through his work visa, student visa, etc.

If your status in the US, ability to remain in the US legally, is directly connected to your husband's status, then you should contact Dr. Harley for advice. Let Dr. H know of your immigration status and the possibility for legal repercussions and ask his advice on how to proceed.

If you are a legal citizen of the US or hold a green card that is not dependent upon your marriage/husband, then disregard my post.


Thank you FooledMeTwice. Legal status is a very important issue for ppl like me from other country studying / working / living in the states. Luckily we got green card years ago, but recently WH applied US citizenship on his own, not even discussing the issue with me. Either he's doing it for MIL, or OW.


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
Joined: Mar 2014
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Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight

No; But make sure she is posted on:
www.cheaterville.com
www.playerblock.com
www.liarscheatersrus.com

Also, if you know where she works I would write a letter to her supervisor.

EDIT: When you write to the supervisor, tell how they communicate and that "she tells him to divorce me and leave me; she tells him that she hates her country and wants to come to America; she complains that Chairman Mao was an old fool and that communism is evil"


She's on cheaterville, but since it's in English, i'm not too sure how much she cares, although WH is furious about my posting his lover there.

I wrote to her senior managers, and a couple of VPs two times. They never responded me. Nobody wants to get involved. But I'll call to find out her direct supervisor, and tell her colleagues in the same office about her A again.

Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight

she tells him that she hates her country and wants to come to America; she complains that Chairman Mao was an old fool and that communism is evil"


LOL laugh . nobody in China cares about Chairman Mao nowadays. Everybody, yeah, almost everybody wants to send his kids overseas for higher education if he can afford it.


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 227
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Alienation of Affection Lawsuits

according this wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alienation_of_affections#cite_note-2) HI is still one of the states that have AOA law. I have sent out email to the lawyer my MC recommended to ask about AOA. I only had initial consultation with her and she charges $300 per hour! So I hope to gather as much info as possible by myself. Anyone knows about AOA please shed some light.

From reading some of the posts here, I might only be able to file AOA lawsuit after i get divorced. But that's my WH's plan, a quick divorce and marry that OW and live here in HI. OW is still in China now. Could I ask a lawyer to send out a letter to her that the client will sue her for breaking AOA law since she causes the divorce for committing adultery. Then tell her that her name will appear in the public records (do I have to win the suit or not?), and if she tries to find a job after moving here, her perspective employers will find out she's a adulterer when they do the background check. Anyone, google her name will find out info about this AOA case and the fact that she's adulterer. I don't know if lawyer will do the above for me, but I guess that would be most effective to intimidate OW. If that lawyer is not willing to send out letter to OW, shall i just email OW about it myself? do i need to CC WH? in the letter do i need to demand OW to send out NC letter and block WH on all social media apps?


-- Do I need to stay in the current state for the AOA lawsuit, even WH and OM will be in HI? My plan is to move to CA, but if I'll think about staying here if that's necessary.


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
Joined: Mar 2014
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I'm going to send another email to OW, cc her supervisors and friends. Please give me some advice. Shall i cc WH? WH is still adamant about divorce and not committing to M. Shall i wait till once i find out about OWH's contact info (i don't know when that will be though)? Shall I even have a trip back to China myself, and confront her?

These are the key points:

she'll be sued for Alienation of Affection.

She is on the cheaterville.com / shesahomewrecker.com all those websites.

Give her the msg that i'll never give them a quick and quiet divorce.

her continued adultery is ruining WH's life. She will cause WH lose his job, reputation and everything. Absolutely nothing good will ever result of her relationship which is based upon the deceit and hurt of others.

I'll tell my daughter and son she's the one break up my family. She will forever be my enemy, my daughter's, and my son's enemy. Enjoy the 1/3 of year spending time with them (shall i include this?)

MIL is strongly against the affair. She said with tears that if WH continues his A, she will just consider she doesn't have a son and no contact with him once she's back to her home in China.

All our friends know about the A, even the local ones will know if we get a divorce, including WH's colleagues -- . (So far I've exposed to MIL, SIL, WH's father passed away, 10 of WH's close friend, some are mutual friends of OW, many of my close friends, my relatives, OW's employer (managers, VPs),). Still trying to find out OWH and family.


Me: BW, 36; WH: 37
Married 14 years
DD: 4yr, DS: 8 month
DD: 11/24/2013
Plan A (not properly done) since DD. Exposure to OW's friend and work on 03/25/2014. Lots of LBs.
Plan B (w/ MIL lives w/ me): started 4/4/2014. Exposed WH to most of our friends in early 05/2014.
Plan A before moving to CA as suggested by Dr Harley started 6/8/14.
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