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Great update, MM!

Glad to hear that the resentment is fading. I bet you would not have thought it would, a few months ago.

Little tip for morning breath: Keep an orange segment beside your bed. Bite into it. Freshens your breath without breaking the mood...

Excellent that you are cutting out the chew. I understand it is a very hard habit to break. Good for you!


Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
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Glad to hear the good news, MM.

I would definitely recommend that your wife reject the touching at work, which I'm sure she's probably doing in some fashion. Step away, remove the person's hands, etc., speak up if necessary.

The work trip you mention sounds pretty dangerous and I would imagine your wife is pretty worried about it. I'd try to find a way to get out of it.

Hopefully over time as the relationship improves both of you can come off of the ADs. The number one source of depression for women is their relationship with their husband or boyfriend. (For men it's supposedly work, though I have trouble relating to that, because my depression was always about our marriage.) Does your doctor have a plan for deciding when it's time to try to come off?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by catwhit
Great update, MM!

Glad to hear that the resentment is fading. I bet you would not have thought it would, a few months ago.

Little tip for morning breath: Keep an orange segment beside your bed. Bite into it. Freshens your breath without breaking the mood...

Excellent that you are cutting out the chew. I understand it is a very hard habit to break. Good for you!

You know, I didn't think I'd ever get past the resentment. When I think about it, those feelings came from a place of not feeling "safe" from her. She "left" me twice already, what was to stop her from doing again? When I felt unsafe, I would lash out with AO or DJ...like a wild animal trapped in a corner. She's worked really hard to make me feel safe now by following EPs and seeing an IC to work on her BPD. I've worked hard at not responding like a wild animal:)

I'll try the orange. I always go to bed with a class of water & lime wedge anyway. I'll just switch it with an orange. Good advice!


Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
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Originally Posted by markos
Hopefully over time as the relationship improves both of you can come off of the ADs. The number one source of depression for women is their relationship with their husband or boyfriend. (For men it's supposedly work, though I have trouble relating to that, because my depression was always about our marriage.) Does your doctor have a plan for deciding when it's time to try to come off?

I have a low stress, secure, satisfying, and high paying job. Nothing depressing there. It's about the relationship for me. I'm looking to taper off the AD after it warms up and we can spend more time outside with physical activity. I thought about waiting till after a particular antiversary (May 31) but I don't want to give that day any more focus than it already has.


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Initially to the wrong poster... now that I have found the right one;

MM - there are three intra-related things you have mentioned in the past couple pages, and it raises a question

1) You are attempting to quit tobacco (Bravo! Something I have to do myself!).

2) You are on an antidepressant.

3) You suggest that the antidepressant you are on is causing you to enjoy SF less.


My question; what AD are you on? Did you/have you discussed other medications, or tried other medications?


The reason I ask; Dr. Harley speaks up a lot for Buproprion aka Welbutrin.

Reason being it is an atypical antidepressant (it is a dopamine/norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor vs a SSRI or tricylic) - as such, it does not typically carry the same side effects as other classes of antidepressants; weight gain, loss of sex drive. In fact, it often increases sex drive, and promotes weight loss. Additionally, clinical studies have found that some men also experience an increase in their serum testosterone levels while on the medication.

In addition to all of that, it is a fantastic aid for tobacco cessation.

Just a thought.

(PS - I haven't taken it myself, but that's because I need to get off my butt and go see my doc.... nurses are notoriously terrible at self-care).


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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It's been almost eight months since I've been on here. I found another support system that really helped me out of the resentment rut. I found that as much genius as there is in MB, there are too many factors involved in any relationship for a standard plan to work for everyone. So I took most of Dr. Harleys advice and went radio silent...PLAN MM, if you will.

I can't advise anyone else to do the same, but it's working for us.

I still travel when I have to, but try my best to make day trips instead of over nights. DW still works and can't wait to get home every night. We don't generally get 15 hours of UA time but sometimes we have lots more, don't really keep track. The time we do spend together is generally very enjoyable for both of us. It truly feels like dating. Some old-timer at the grocery store asked if we were newly-weds after following us down a couple of aisles. We laughed and said "15 years"

There are quite a few here that offered the support I needed...catwit, BH, RQ(new name?). Some of the others really didn't help. I can tell everyone had good intentions but they really had too little insight into the whole picture to give certain advice (like telling DW I was only staying to punish, run, etc.) Sort of a mob mentality at times. So...better for me to work on us using the MB principles without the beating.

In sad news, MIL passed after years of fighting breast cancer. Probably for the best as she was suffering terribly. DW and I are looking into moving in 2017 after I finish my Navy time (NC mountains maybe?).

Altogether good though. I think about the affairs at times. Normally triggered by a name or song or a Mercedes on the highway, but doesn't really bother me too much. I know that DW will be coming home with a hug and a kiss and maybe more on most nights. In short, We're in love...it's pretty awesome.

Take care.
MM

There's no more worry of another affair. If she cheats again it's over. She knows that, the kids know that. There won't even be a plan B. She will leave and I will file.


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What are the differences in the other support system you found?

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We don't generally get 15 hours of UA time

This is likely to be a problem for your wife in the long term.

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like telling DW I was only staying to punish, run, etc.

It's the truth when we're talking about angry outbursts.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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It would be great to hear how your wife is feeling about your marriage.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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We would advise any wife to leave if her husband were abusing her, which you were doing. Don't rewrite history.


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What to do with an Angry Husband

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Thanks for checking in, MM. I **EDIT** have been pretty absent myself though I lurk.

Glad to hear you and the Mrs. are doing well!

~RQ

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But they aren't doing well. They aren't even getting 15 a week, the bare minimum.


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Is the rumor true that you have quit drinking as well?


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Originally Posted by Ever2Late
Thanks for checking in, MM. I **EDIT** have been pretty absent myself though I lurk.

Glad to hear you and the Mrs. are doing well
It is appalling that after so many of us have put so many hours into helping you, RQ, that you would agree with the abuser who says we are not helpful. Why do you even come here, then, if we are so awful?


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Originally Posted by MindMonkey
I found that as much genius as there is in MB, there are too many factors involved in any relationship for a standard plan to work for everyone.

I was referring to this. I didn't mean to offend anyone, but recovery by MB standards don't work for everyone. That has been brought up time and time again in Recovery, so those who flounder...leave.

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Originally Posted by MindMonkey
I found that as much genius as there is in MB, there are too many factors involved in any relationship for a standard plan to work for everyone. So I took most of Dr. Harleys advice and went radio silent...PLAN MM, if you will.


Can you elaborate on what parts of the program you cannot follow or don't work for you?

Originally Posted by MindMonkey
There's no more worry of another affair. If she cheats again it's over. She knows that, the kids know that. There won't even be a plan B. She will leave and I will file.

That doesn't mean there won't be another A. It just means your marriage will end if there is another one.

Last edited by FightTheFight; 09/04/14 01:52 PM.

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Originally Posted by Ever2Late
Originally Posted by MindMonkey
I found that as much genius as there is in MB, there are too many factors involved in any relationship for a standard plan to work for everyone.

I was referring to this. I didn't mean to offend anyone, but recovery by MB standards don't work for everyone. That has been brought up time and time again in Recovery, so those who flounder...leave.
Following the MB plan will result in the highest probability of recovery. If both spouses embrace the plan, it works 100% of the time. All this gobbledygook about the complexity of relationships is irrelevant. MM wants to do his own thing. So be it. I prefer to worry about those who are really trying to get it right.


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Originally Posted by MindMonkey
I still travel when I have to, but try my best to make day trips instead of over nights. DW still works and can't wait to get home every night. We don't generally get 15 hours of UA time but sometimes we have lots more, don't really keep track. The time we do spend together is generally very enjoyable for both of us. It truly feels like dating. Some old-timer at the grocery store asked if we were newly-weds after following us down a couple of aisles. We laughed and said "15 years"

My story was similar - and I am now divorced.



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Originally Posted by MindMonkey
If she cheats again it's over. She knows that, the kids know that. There won't even be a plan B. She will leave and I will file.

My ex knew too. Loud and clear. That did nothing to protect our marriage.


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Quote
Is the rumor true that you have quit drinking as well?

I quit for a time but started back up again. I'm aiming for responsible use. It's working well.

Quote
Can you elaborate on what parts of the program you cannot follow or don't work for you?

With TOS, I really can't. My thread is pretty clear that I was struggling with resentment and DW was not in love with me.

The resentment was dealt with by venting with other BH. The concern with the MB forum was that it would just keep the past in the present and it would never get better, but that's not how it happened for me.

I've spent 18 years in an all male service and I found it very comforting to open up to a group of BH who know what I'm going through. The MB forum isn't really set up like that, which I get. For many guys, it's really hard to see yourself as a MAN one day and a BH the next. It made me unconfident about everything. One day I'm a cocky SOB that can take on the world, the next day I'm a wuss. Talking to other guys who went through worse than me who are back on top of the world(with or without an in-tact marriage) was what I needed to say, "this A doesn't define me".

When my resentment faded and confidence came back, DW fell in love because I was the man she fell in love with years ago. Now that we're in this place, we adhere to most of the MB principles and still use the terms. We POJA on all the big stuff, but don't sweat the small stuff. We avoid the LB for the most part, but if one of us slips up, we don't equate it to abuse, because it's not. We just say sorry and hug it out. 15 hours of UA time? It's not reasonable that EVERYONE has the exact same minimum. We do just fine with less, but certainly feel the difference if it drops below 8 or so. But that is what works for US. We have independent hobbies and together hobbies, but she is by far my favorite recreational companion. DW works in the same field that led to her other affairs but it's working out great. She knew my concerns and has opened up to me about the working environment. It's like you would expect a hospital to be. Lots of flirting or worse. The difference now is she sees it for the destructive gross behavior that it is and it makes her sick to her stomach that she once participated in it.

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That doesn't mean there won't be another A. It just means your marriage will end if there is another one.
That's not really what I meant. I mean I'm not laying awake at night "worried" about another A ending the marriage. I really don't think another will happen but I'm not "worried" about the outcome. It's already decided and I'll do just fine. So will my kiddos.

I still snoop her FB account from time to time and we have full use of eachothers everything. So I'm not burying my head in the sand. I'll know if somethings up and end it on the spot.

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But they aren't doing well. They aren't even getting 15 a week, the bare minimum.
Yes we are. Better than ever. Any more time together means sacrificing time with the kids who are going through very parenting intensive pahases (DD, 15). Any slip there and DW will fall out love because she relies heavily on me for FS...and besides, you don't know enough about us to say we aren't doing well.

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My story was similar - and I am now divorced.
Similar, but not the SAME. That's sort of my point. You cannot know enough of the background, details, history, inner person to say your story is the same.

When I told Dr. Harley that I still had to travel, he didn't pound his fist and say, "you aren't protecting your marriage, she will cheat again." He helped me understand why time apart is bad and how I need to minimize it as much as possible and work to maintain as much closeness as possible while away. When he spoke with DW and she said she was going back to work in a hospital he offered her advice at how to let other men know she is NOT available.


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It is appalling that after so many of us have put so many hours into helping you, RQ, that you would agree with the abuser who says we are not helpful. Why do you even come here, then, if we are so awful?

That right there. You have to see how nasty that sounds. That is the type statement that is anything but encouraging. It would turn me off to this place.

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Following the MB plan will result in the highest probability of recovery. If both spouses embrace the plan, it works 100% of the time.
Absolutley correct. But MB sort of leaves out a solution if both spouses fail to embrace the plan.
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All this gobbledygook about the complexity of relationships is irrelevant.
Incorrect. I wish it were more simple, but it's not. Understanding those complexities is exactly what moved us forward

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MM wants to do his own thing.
Not totally correct. I have structured my present M using the key MB principles. But more like the ten commandments and alot less like an blueprint or schematic.
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So be it. I prefer to worry about those who are really trying to get it right.
I'm not asking for you to worry about me. I didn't come back to ask for help.

I came back to check on FtF because his story really resonated with me and hoped to see he was flourishing with FC. I offered support on AD which was pivitol in my R and gave him no advice on anything contrary to the MB principles. I know that this is not the place for that.

I was asked to update my sitch, so here I am. On top of the world.

So again, thanks for those that helped. My previous post left out Dr. Harley and Joyce. They were a Godsend.

Those that didn't help I want to remind you of how Joyce advertises the MB forum on the radio show. She uses the word "encouragement". Encouragement is what I came seeking, and ultimately why I left to find it elsewhere.










Me: BH, 36 Military Officer
FWS: 36, repeat offender
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DD-15/ DS-10
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Originally Posted by MindMonkey
Quote
It is appalling that after so many of us have put so many hours into helping you, RQ, that you would agree with the abuser who says we are not helpful. Why do you even come here, then, if we are so awful?

That right there. You have to see how nasty that sounds. That is the type statement that is anything but encouraging. It would turn me off to this place.

Pot, kettle.

Plonk.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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