Marmit, you sound very much like me when I first came to Marriage Builders. Right down to taking offense at anyone suggesting that I leave my wife, and swearing that I would never do such a thing.

Good - because the solution is not for you to leave your wife, or threaten to leave her.

I'm in a happy marriage today with my needs very well met because I used this program to learn how to understand my wife's feelings and modify my behavior so that I would quit making her feel bad.

It is nearly impossible for people to change their feelings - but behavior modification is a very understandable scientific process. You can use this program to learn to change your behavior, and your wife's feelings toward you will follow that change after some time.

In particular, you have GOT to stop fighting with your wife. No matter what problems you have in marriage, fighting about the problems will make things WORSE.

Here is what I suggest as a first step for you:
Email Dr. Harley and his wife Joyce at their radio program at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com . Describe your problem and go on the radio show and talk to them. Be sure and mention that you have been fighting with your wife about this. Put your mailing address in your email, because Dr. Harley and Joyce will send you a free book that will probably be very helpful.

For step two:
Download the Marriage Builders Radio app and begin listening to the radio show every day.

For step three:
Start documenting every fight you have with your wife here on this forum. Listen very carefully to the feedback that is offered, and change how you are approaching your wife.

No woman wants to have sex with a man who fights with her.

You're assuming I have anger over sex. You're assuming I talked to her harshly in a soft voice. I didn't say that. You weren't there. I haven't responded to the rudeness you two have presented with rudeness. Why would you feel ok to assume that was the case? You two are full of hurt. Hurt people hurt people. Just stop trying to hurt me. Go post on someone else's topic. Maybe I can find someone with a good relationship who will help if the two of you stop derailing this post.

Thank you very much for posting this! I really appreciate it! I didn't realize I could email them directly

Wow, you need to find better therapists who will validate your wife. How can you ever learn to empathize with your wife's point of view when you've got people telling you she's wrong?

I'm sure you do have your wife's best interests at heart, but if she says you are yelling at her this needs to be taken seriously and addressed rather than dismissed, and you need to change something about how you are talking to your wife.

I can't think of a single time Dr. Harley has ever dismissed my wife's complaints or validated me in dismissing them, and I've been at this a few years.

Your wife will never want to have sex with you if you don't take her complaints seriously or if you take her to therapists who try to decide which of you is "right" and which of you is "wrong." I'm assuming you don't want to be right, single, and sexless, so get somebody in your wife's corner who can be an advocate for her to you so she can get through to you about whatever changes she needs you to make.

No yelling.

No fighting.

Fighting is like nuclear war in marriage - the only way to win is not to play.

Don't do or say anything your wife things is demanding, disrespectful, or angry.

We are not assuming anything other than what we have seen here and what you have told us. Your wife has told you she doesn't like the way you speak to her and instead of changing your approach, you dismissed her complaint. You are doing the same thing with us.

Start listening and stop brawling!

No, I am not assuming this at all - you said so yourself:

Tell them markos sent you.

Yep - most people have only one type of marital advice to offer: use a club on your spouse. Either leave them or threaten to leave them. Or ignore them. Or (God forbid) have an affair. Or fight with them. Or try to straighten them out.

Using any of these clubs on your wife will make your problem worse.

Markos,

When we do fight it is bizarre. I literally do not change my tone, I don't say words that are harsh, I don't make it a me vs you. I'm not mad at her because she is an amazing wife! She is trying so hard to be the best wife that ever existed for me. The problem is if we talk about sex at all then things get bad really fast. Even though I try to tell her everything that I really like about it, she only hears that I hate it even though I don't think that and don't say that. I do want it to change though. That has happened twice.

The other fights were caused because of the issues with sex. She would get very cold and reject any of my advances and I would feel pretty alone and unloved as a result. When we would end up talking about it she would feel like I felt a bunch of things I didn't feel.

Do you have any recommendations for this from what you've read?

Whatever you are saying in a soft voice, she does not like. Take this indication very seriously:


This indicates her problem is that she doesn't feel safe to have emotional vulnerability to you.

For step four I recommend:
Read through these Q&A columns by Dr. Harley:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5505_qa.html

All of them! (Click the links down the left hand side: controlling husband; control, dependency, and identity; conflicts of faith; angry outbursts; domestic violence.) Read all of the Q&A columns in that section, even the ones that don't apply to you, because Dr. Harley usually has valuable tidbits of information in all of his articles.

Ask Dr. Harley in your email to help you figure out why your wife thinks you are yelling at her and how to negotiate this without offending her.

Couple questions:
Have either of you been married before?
Do you ever have any sexual experiences without your spouse? That could include pornography, masturbation, etc.

No I mean seriously I will hug her and tell her I love her and tell her I'm not angry with her and that she is a wonderful wife and I understand that she is trying really hard to be the perfect wife and she will turn around and tells that I hate her and that I'm yelling at her and that I am full of rage. Assume that my therapist is right and that I am not fighting her and I'm not yelling at her. That is really what is happening.

But you need to understand your wife's perspective, not dismiss it. Why does she think you are yelling at her? What constitutes yelling, to her?

I strongly suggest you dump your therapist! Most of them suck anyway, I am afraid. Three counselors here before we came to Marriage Builders.

And Prisca and I probably had several conversations that looked a lot like that, back in the day. Why did she think I was yelling at her? Because I was a disrespectful jerk! I wasn't aware of it, and I would have defended my attentions and explained over and over again why I wasn't being disrespectful, and I really was doing the best I knew how to do. But I didn't know how to NOT be disrespectful. I had no clue. I was utterly, totally clueless about disrespect, and I was disrespectful all the time, and my wife's emotional barometer was extremely accurate about it, and the result was disaster.

I had to learn to see what my wife was seeing.

Got that email written to Dr. Harley, yet?

Another question: do you feel that it is normal for couples to sometimes have fights, even in a good marriage?

While you might wish she would put it a little differently, her reaction is informing you this is hurtful to her. She likely receives that as a statement that she is not yet the perfect wife (especially in the bedroom) in spite of her efforts.

Quite the understatement ....

Good point - I didn't even pick up on that when I read that sentence.

Thanks, Markos.

Comments like that likely refresh her recollection and bring back into the present moment how very deeply she has been hurt in the past over this topic.

This is why her reaction in the moment may seem outsized compared to the present scenario.